Is Saryn Viable?

[RealPandemonium]

Not for infinite content like she used to, but she will be viable for a long time as long as you focus on Molt and Miasma.

What made her viable for infinite content before?  Also "viable isn't the right word for what you are describing.  A better word would be "exploitable."  Infinite content is not the target for game balance.  It exists for people who are interested in that kind of thing to have fun.  There is no gameplay incentive to stay in a defense or a survival for an extended period besides for the fun and challenge of it.

Edited March 15, 2014 by RealPandemonium

[LukeAura]

What made her viable for infinite content before?  Also "viable isn't the right word for what you are describing.  A better word would be "exploitable."  Infinite content is not the target for game balance.  It exists for people who are interested in that kind of thing to have fun.  There is no gameplay incentive, to stay in a defense or a survival for an extended period besides for the fun and challenge of it.

Venom used to be able to stack damage much better than it does now. Which meant the output of damage it could deal when enemies lasted longer and longer and fresh spores could be popped and reset would lead to large damage increases. 

No, viable is the best word for what I am describing. Venom was being used exactly as intended, as a refreshable DoT that would stack large damage spread over a crowd over time. it's just that enemies lasted long enough in high level content the effects became visible and worth using.

The exploitable abilities were what allowed for infinite content to be completed. Blessing and Snow globe. Just bringing Venom to infinite content wouldn't do, nor was bringing Venom necessary either, a Nova, Banshee or even Rhino would suffice as well for their individual damage amps.  

Balancing is not the issue here, nor am I asking for Saryn to be rebalanced for endless level content. I am well aware of that. 

He wanted to know Saryn's viability.

For infinite content, she isn't. 

For regular content she is. 

Edited March 15, 2014 by LukeAura

[RealPandemonium]

Venom used to be able to stack damage much better than it does now. Which meant the output of damage it could deal when enemies lasted longer and longer and fresh spores could be popped and reset would lead to large damage increases. 

No, viable is the best word for what I am describing. Venom was being used exactly as intended, as a refreshable DoT that would stack large damage spread over a crowd over time. it's just that enemies lasted long enough in high level content the effects became visible and worth using.

The exploitable abilities were what allowed for infinite content to be completed. Blessing and Snow globe. Just bringing Venom to infinite content wouldn't do, nor was bringing Venom necessary either, a Nova, Banshee or even Rhino would suffice as well for their individual damage amps.  

Balancing is not the issue here, nor am I asking for Saryn to be rebalanced for endless level content. I am well aware of that. 

He wanted to know Saryn's viability.

For infinite content, she isn't. 

For regular content she is. 

Your clarification is appreciated, and I agree that venom spores should behave more consistently (not require a shotgun and hell's chamber to function as intended, and sometimes even then).  In its current state it's either too powerful (against low level enemies) or too weak (against 25 and above) to be usable; making it behave consistently (as before) would fix this issue.

[LukeAura]

Your clarification is appreciated, and I agree that venom spores should behave more consistently (not require a shotgun and hell's chamber to function as intended, and sometimes even then).  In its current state it's either too powerful (against low level enemies) or too weak (against 25 and above) to be usable; making it behave consistently (as before) would fix this issue.

I think one of the best solutions I've ever heard was return to its old state, but reset DoTs and increase their damage instead of adding entirely new instances of a spore. PCs were crashing when so many spores and DoTs were going on at once on enemies nothing could handle processing that much at one time. 

[taiiat]

generally the reason you see few using Saryn is because her powers aren't easy to use. this is not to say they're hard to use, but the powers have more thought to them than 'press button, get kills'. so few people play Saryn.

 

but i think the 85 Million+ XP i've accrued on Saryn should say something about how much i enjoy the mixture of powers and stats. 

 

 

what this ultimately boils down to - is yes. because all Warframes are viable. not a single one isn't. some of them are not peoples' cup of tea, and their styles vary greatly, but they can all be used in all situations. 

Edited March 15, 2014 by taiiat

[RealPandemonium]

Miasma isn't terribly nuanced but none of the room-clearing 4s are.

[DuWryght]

She's fun. She's my 2nd favorite female frame and my 2nd frame tank frame (of any gender).

 

It's a shame that by in large, 2 of her 4 skills are for the most part useless. But she's shmexie.

Edited March 16, 2014 by DuWryght

[Psycomet]

saryn will carry you, no doubt about that.

 

but suffers the same problem as ash or banshee IMO.

 

seing how the game is being developed, their powers are not good anymore beyond a certain point in the game.

 

saryn first takes to much time to act, comes nova or a penta "BOOM", you cant use it.

saryn second is a worst version of loki decoy, and you have to be in the middle of the combat to release it, you cant project it like the decoy, so not viable also.

saryn third power, well you have Rhino, Valkyr and even trinity if you want to tank, again you have better choices.

ulti power, is a meh, you have better choices.

 

same with ash and banshee, but we are not talking about them here.

 

Saryn will carry you until mid level content, their powers where good in the beginning but are "old" an out of place with the game as it it now with fast paced action and hordes of enemies (you can argue about some of this being shared with ember also).

 

TL:DR. several frames needs an overhaul about their powers (should act faster, should have better CC, etc), saryn is ok, only that, and beyond some answers ill get about "hey! Saryn/ash/banshee is awesome, you dont know how to use it" , or wathever reason that will arise, the true is that there is more balanced all around frames in the game, and is a shame, because saryn was one of my first frames, and i really enjoyed to use her.

 

thats why you dont see so many players using her, there are better options until the older frames are revisited, only that.

 

1st ability only comes into play on those really high levels due to its viral proccing chance. I would say this is one of the most OP powers because it's effective at all levels, especially when u have a mob T3 heavy gunners and all other damage ultis fall on their faces in front of them. Then venom does what no other power can.

 

2nd It is a vital power for saryn's survival because no other tank frame has this ability. When I am reviving a downed teammate I just put a molt nearby and do the work. This is not possible with loki. You can molt while running, sliding or shooting but not decoy. So all I can say is both are effective at different things and you can't always think of one particular situation.

 

3rd Just based on the damage boost it gives you is good enough. Add that it's TOXIN damage, and it's +75% opposed to Rhino's +50%. Don't know why you would say they are better tanks.

 

4th Now this power, like all other damaging ultimates loses out at higher levels. But with duration mods you can stun lock them for a long time. They should buff its proc chance and then it will be a killer.

 

All in all I have been doing T3 survivals recently with Saryn and I found out that around 40 min when my squads' weapons start to lose out (not always), I can help them help me by serving my utility function.

 

So the answer is YES, Saryn IS viable.

 

If you haven't made her yet go to Sedna NOW and grind your a** off! :D

[Psycomet]

Balancing is not the issue here, nor am I asking for Saryn to be rebalanced for endless level content. I am well aware of that. 

He wanted to know Saryn's viability.

For infinite content, she isn't. 

For regular content she is.

Wow so misguided.

 

generally the reason you see few using Saryn is because her powers aren't easy to use. this is not to say they're hard to use, but the powers have more thought to them than 'press button, get kills'. so few people play Saryn.

 

but i think the 85 Million+ XP i've accrued on Saryn should say something about how much i enjoy the mixture of powers and stats. 

 

 

what this ultimately boils down to - is yes. because all Warframes are viable. not a single one isn't. some of them are not peoples' cup of tea, and their styles vary greatly, but they can all be used in all situations. 

I kno that feel bro.

[Oishii]

generally the reason you see few using Saryn is because her powers aren't easy to use. this is not to say they're hard to use, but the powers have more thought to them than 'press button, get kills'. so few people play Saryn.

 

but i think the 85 Million+ XP i've accrued on Saryn should say something about how much i enjoy the mixture of powers and stats. 

 

 

what this ultimately boils down to - is yes. because all Warframes are viable. not a single one isn't. some of them are not peoples' cup of tea, and their styles vary greatly, but they can all be used in all situations. 

Can you explain this because I fail to see how she is more difficult to use than others, unless you mean by certain warframes like Trinity just make content so brain dead that she seems complex in comparison then I agree.

[taiiat]

unless you mean by certain warframes like Trinity just make content so brain dead that she seems complex in comparison then I agree.

that sums up well, but is not the full extent. i clearly pointed out there that the powers are more complicated in process than others, but they're not hard to use or anything, they're just more detailed. more happens, instead of 'press button, get kills'. that makes the powers a lot more interesting to use, i think.

[RealPandemonium]

3rd Just based on the damage boost it gives you is good enough. Add that it's TOXIN damage, and it's +75% opposed to Rhino's +50%. Don't know why you would say they are better tanks.

 

4th Now this power, like all other damaging ultimates loses out at higher levels. But with duration mods you can stun lock them for a long time. They should buff its proc chance and then it will be a killer.

You make good points in this post but there is some inaccurate information here. 

 

Rhino's buff is team-wide and applies to all damage, while Saryn's only applies to melee and doesn't amplify her melee damage from elemental mods either. 

 

Miasma's stun does not benefit from duration mods.  The only thing duration does is lower the ability's dps.  However, due to a bug, having -50% power duration makes Miasma significantly stronger, adding total damage.

[Psycomet]

You make good points in this post but there is some inaccurate information here. 

 

Rhino's buff is team-wide and applies to all damage, while Saryn's only applies to melee and doesn't amplify her melee damage from elemental mods either. 

 

Miasma's stun does not benefit from duration mods.  The only thing duration does is lower the ability's dps.  However, due to a bug, having -50% power duration makes Miasma significantly stronger, adding total damage.

Actually when you put it that way you make a point. But a direct comparison of two warframes' powers isn't very helpful, because no warframe should be like the other.

 

In that matter take a look at ALL of Saryn's abilities overall. Rhino's AOE buff power is straightforward, i.e. roar and we all get extra damage. Saryn also has an AOE buff power, that is Venom, her first. Though we don't really consider this AOE, it is. It isn't straightforward or simple to use. As a result it does way more than roar. Contagion adds 75% extra damage as poison damage on the base damage of the weapon. This adds to any elemental mods you might have in your melee weapon. That it doesn't apply to your guns is certainly a disadvantage over Rhino. But once again all warframes should not be the same.

 

Miasma's stun obviously benefits from duration mods. 2 extra seconds of stun is not only viable but crucial at those really high levels. At lower levels just remove those duration mods. DPS doesn't matter because no matter what all the enemies will eventually receive all the damage from the Miasma; it's not like you're shooting the enemy and then he runs away and you couldn't do enough damage during that time. Remember also that corrosive proc is extremely useful against grineer.

Edited March 19, 2014 by Psycomet

[LewdIntentions]

Yes.  Pretty much every frame has something to offer, actually.  The problem is everyone wants their frame to be Nova.

 

I think the problem is actually that Nova has no weaknesses beyond being frail... which a ton of other frames have but they don't have Nova's BOOM potential (or debuff potential) to back that up.

 

Honestly, it's more about frames not being up to Nova's level than Nova being too good. Buffs and reworks for every other frame should be a priority. (And possibly mobs of enemies, or small squads of powerful enemies or anything other than GIGANTIC HORDES would make a LOT of abilities look and feel way more rewarding.)

Edited March 19, 2014 by LewdIntentions

[fatpig84]

Venom spores work well with Ignis though due to innate punch through and the AOE.

It makes for fun games, but again something not that I will use seriously since Ignis had it's DPS nerfed by 30% during the transition to damage 2.0 :(