Soma Is The Benchmark For Weapon Balancing.

[LazyKnight]

We had this conversation already, weapons are overpowered regardless of warframe abilites and both need rebalance (that will never happen, judging by what DE has done and keeps on doing)

 

What DE tried to do was make the NPC similar to ones in 'Ninja Gaiden Black' (this is speculation on my part, but it fits the pattern found in Warframe). NPC in that game will kill you nearly instantly if they are given the chance, but none are terrible hard to kill, even on master ninja mode. DE is trying to avoid the 'bullet sponge" but has not gotten the NPC are dangerous part right (fault of CC).

 

The scaling of the NPC is just wrong for a huge section of the game, I will not deny this. This is why I say it should have NPC balanced based on conclave or another secret PC rating system, so under geared players are not targeted. It should ramp of the pressure for people that are geared, but avoid bothering people leveling equipment. I do not care if it is a toggle mode or how it is implemented.

 

It should be far more apparent that a little level 40 charge can do +400 damage per swing of its feet. The NPC are ridiculously dangerous past level 30 and DE needs to eliminate the ability of the players to lockdown the Ai from being able to win.

Edited March 18, 2014 by LazyKnight

[Davoodoo]

DE clearly stated that endless missions arent endgame

Now someone on forums tries to convince me that gun which can take out 50 lvl heavy gunner within 0.3s is benchmark for weapon making.

 

There are only 2 possibilities:

1) someone is high

2) this is legit 

if option 2) is the case then im waiting for enemies1.0 cause current ones arent living to weapon standarrds at all.

 

 

What DE tried to do was make the NPC similar to ones in 'Ninja Gaiden Black' (this is speculation on my part, but it fits the pattern found in Warframe). NPC in that game will kill you nearly instantly if they are given the chance, but none are terrible hard to kill, even on master ninja mode. DE is trying to avoid the 'bullet sponge" but has not gotten the NPC are dangerous part right (fault of CC).

 

The scaling of the NPC is just wrong for a huge section of the game, I will not deny this. This is why I say it should have NPC balanced based on conclave or another secret PC rating system, so under geared players are not targeted. It should ramp of the pressure for people that are geared, but avoid bother people leveling equipment. I do not care if it is a toggle mode or how it is implemented.

 

It should be far more apparent that a little level 40 charge can do +400 damage per swing of its feet. The NPC are ridiculously dangerous past level 30 and DE needs to eliminate the ability of the players to lockdown the Ai from being able to win.

Im more convinced that DE given npcs stupidly high scaling to encourage players to use cc and avoid being hit, but screwed up at this.

When you look at this lvl1 enemy wont able to survive a bullet from lvl30 weapon but at the same time your 30lvl warframe shouldnt be able to survive a bullet from lvl100 enemy and it seems pretty logical.

For me it seems that de while being able to balance the game back in early days, couldnt handle new waves of powercreep, giving us barely any actual content but many new powerful weapons and leaving endless missions as bandaid fix until they can think of something.

Thats why we have scaling increase

Edited March 16, 2014 by Davoodoo

[(NSW)Omgwtfl9lbbl]

stuff about CC and defensive warframe powers

To be honest, a lot of these supaOP CC and defensive powers would not be that big an issue if, you know, we couldn't spam them 15 times in a row without batting an eye to our energy levels.

 

Warframe has a huge number of problems that need to be tackled, I personally tend to focus on weapons because I feel like they are the easiest substantial issue to deal with first. But whatever DE does, they need to establish some kind of real baseline for what they want to balance around, and then actually make it easy for us to test around those levels of difficulty.

 

A lot of our balance issues revolve around the same problems. Our warframe abilities make it so that enemies can't do anything in mass (CC) or so that we don't even care what they do (invulnerability). Our guns are so strong that most of the time we shoot them dead before it even matters. Enemy scaling is borked and DE doesn't seem to know what they want to do with their game.

 

Also, I'm still wondering where in that livestream they said that the Soma is their benchmark for balance.

[LazyKnight]

Im more convinced that DE given npcs stupidly high scaling to encourage players to use cc and avoid being hit, but screwed up at this.

Yeah, that is why I used the ninja gaiden reference. It was mention in a live-stream I am positive that at least one of the staff played it.

 

 

For me it seems that de while being able to balance the game back in early days, couldn't handle new waves of power creep, giving us barely any actual content but many new powerful weapons and leaving endless missions as Band-Aid fix until they can think of something.

Thats why we have scaling increase

I do not think they can mange their complex mod system and the way it is used to upgrade a player's power. Their upgrade system reliance on RNG is a wild card that makes balancing a layered growth of horrible inequality.  If weapons just had static values that didn't have mods card (catalyst/forma could still be used for something, just not mods cards), it would be beyond simple to balance, and wouldn't be a hard task to ensure player growth was fluid.

 

The RNG element is constantly in flux and I am sure that there are many people that never get to see how OP Soma is simply because they can't get a catalyst or the correct mods. They should have just had the mod system part of an upgrade tree that was attached to the player's account and left out the RPG elements on weapons. It is fun enough to collect weapons with static values, and monster hunter is proof of that.

 

 

Also, I'm still wondering where in that livestream they said that the Soma is their benchmark for balance.

It was just a comment that they were not going to nerf it more. 

 

Edit: I do not want to spend the time to review that linked video to find an exact quote.

Edited March 16, 2014 by LazyKnight

[(NSW)Omgwtfl9lbbl]

I went over the notes and like half the video, and all they said was that they felt the Soma was now around its proper mastery level (which of course means jack all when you look at half the clan tech). Nothing about actually using the Soma as a benchmark.

[neKroMancer]

Which part of the livestream that DE explicitly stated "Soma is a benchmark"? I can't find it anywhere. Megan's transcript of the stream doesn't contain said sentence. All I see are

1. They didn't nerf Soma.

2. Increase mastery rank requirement is the way to balance stupidly high damage of Soma.

No where in the stream that DE said "Soma is standard". And using crit weapon as a standard is a bit ridiculous in itself.