Frost's New Avalanche Thoughts

[nekrojiji]

Having heard on the dev livestream that avalanche is being reworked i wanted to write my suggestions here.

 

In the current form Avalanche is useless (except for damage, which is not that great considering that you stop the weapon DPS to cast the skill)

Avalanche (100 energy skill) needs to have an impact when used.

 

Here's my sugestions for how the new Avalanche would complete Frost's skill package:

 

When used, Ice gathers on everyone in 15 meters of Frost,

 

enemies: Take 400/500/600/750(+power strength) cold damage, are frozen for 5 seconds(+power duration) and take 50% more blast or impact damage. If 400/500/600/750(+power duration) damage is dealt that enemy will take an aditional 400/500/600/750 blast damage. If the frozen timer ends before the damage threshold, no additional damage will proc.

 

Allies and Frost: Receive a 400/500/600/750(+ Frost's armor value) shield that lasts 5/6/7/8(+ power duration). If this shield is broken by damage it will deal 10/20/30/40 blast with 100% proc chance in a 2m(+ power range) radius. This shield affects only Warframes and Sentinels.

 

 

That's my sugestion .... hope it helps! 

Edited March 17, 2014 by nekrojiji

[LordMelvin]

First off that's a very complicated power. I like the damage, freezing, and increased damage taken, but that's where it should end. This isn't League of Legends where every power needs a million interactions. Keep it simple. Simple is better.

 

Second, shouldn't the shield deal frost damage in an area since it's ice based to begin with? Warframe is riddled with enough knockdown as it is and I can get a reliable blast proc from most full auto weapons without dropping 100 energy.

 

I think Avalanche should be more than just another Press-4-to-Win skill. I liked the "bugged" version since it provided a useful crowd control to counter the weakened state of Snow Globe. I propose that Avalanche loses its up front damage in favor of knocking back and freezing enemies in the area and tagging frozen enemies with an incoming damage debuff, maybe 20%. Now you have a skill that will give you some breathing room against nearby enemies and most importantly scales well past level 30-40 when most ultimates stop clearing rooms.

 

Your idea would be better suited to a Blessing rework. As it stands Trinity provides up to 30 seconds of total invulnerability. Changing that to a damage buffer would be more in line with DE's vision of removing duration based invulnerability from the game.

Edited March 17, 2014 by LordMelvin

[nekrojiji]

Second, shouldn't the shield deal frost damage in an area since it's ice based to begin with? Warframe is riddled with enough knockdown as it is and I can get a reliable blast proc from most full auto weapons without dropping 100 energy.

 

I was thinking "blast" because it breaks apart. The first part is "cold", because they freeze.

More, the damge/shield values can be tweaked for balance. I worked with the damage that the skill allready has. 1500 damage, in a time when one single boltor prime bolt deals 1000+ damage, is not that much. That's why I kept the damage values but dealt with a twist.

 

As for Trinity.... It's my first crafted frame. I still use her sometimes. I'm expecting, very soon, that DE will take out the last free invulnerability buff from the game.

[LukeAura]

First off that's a very complicated power. I like the damage, freezing, and increased damage taken, but that's where it should end. This isn't League of Legends where every power needs a million interactions. Keep it simple. Simple is better.

Simple isn't always better. And with Warframe powers, right now they're too simple. 

They need to be made a little more complex. Maybe not this complex but at least some depth so that 90% of the time they aren't the same ability with a little unique flavour.

[RealPandemonium]

Avalanche's current 1500 base damage of a useful type is not weak.  Hitting the whole room for 2600 damage and a 1.5 second stun for only 25 energy is good.  Only Saryn (due to a bug) and Nova deal more damage with their 4s.

[Thrymm]

CC would be the first, most obvious thing that it needs.  Any form of "my frozen enemies stop killing me" would be great.  It's not like Frost is going to be running into, then back out of, the middle of anything.

 

Heck, when it was bugged and froze my enemies, the thought went through my head "whoa, this is way better than it used to be"......and that thought happened BEFORE they suddenly exploded for damage.  Yeah, that's right, I was satisfied with just freezing the whole crowd in place with no damage whatsoever!

 

Sauntering slowly, maybe.  But definitely not running.  I run faster than this guy and I'm 40 and not built for speed.

[Monolake]

Just revert the 5 seconds freeze part, DE, would ya?  Kinda sad that people gave up on Frost already, it seems. Everyone is more bothered with Rhino speed now...

[nekrojiji]

Avalanche's current 1500 base damage of a useful type is not weak.  Hitting the whole room for 2600 damage and a 1.5 second stun for only 25 energy is good.  Only Saryn (due to a bug) and Nova deal more damage with their 4s.

 

You can't reach 2600 damage winth 25 energy consumption .... ...and even 2600 is weak, as I said before one single bolt (not 1 shot, 1 bold) from boltor prime deals more damage than that. If you make a 360% turn while firing you deal more damage than frost's avalanche(or other forths).

 

Frost, in my opinion doesn't need damage in his forth. I want my Frost to, I don't know, "freeze" people. Hell even a freezing aura, like the death knight's Remorseless Winter.

[HAYABU5A]

 

 

I think Avalanche should be more than just another Press-4-to-Win skill. I liked the "bugged" version since it provided a useful crowd control to counter the weakened state of Snow Globe. I propose that Avalanche loses its up front damage in favor of knocking back and freezing enemies in the area and tagging frozen enemies with an incoming damage debuff, maybe 20%. Now you have a skill that will give you some breathing room against nearby enemies and most importantly scales well past level 30-40 when most ultimates stop clearing rooms.

 

 

this sounds perfect 

[Monolake]

Im bumping this in the hope that community and DE didn't forget about poor Frosty. 

 

After Avalanche nerf he is back to 1-trick  half-trick pony with the Globe (which is only half as good as before)

 

Some points in favour of reverting the Avalanche being able to freeze enemies for short duration:

 

- it was fun for everyone in the team to blast frozen enemies into shatters

- goes perfect with frost theme and role of protector and defender

- CC obviously being very useful regardless of enemy type and level, but it was never OP

- makes Frost a bit more versatile and useful outside of just defence

- it's only ~5 second time making it pretty short CC compared to other abilities, be it ultimates, or cheaper CC abilities

- Avalanche range is shorter than most similar abilities (only 15 vs 25 on Rhino stomp, Ex Radial blind)

- the damage alone is not good enough vs armored units (and you fight them most of the time: grineers and void) Avalanche does only ~25% damage to lvl30 heavy

 

Negative points, are there any?  

Frost being too strong?  Not at all after the Globe nerf.

And comparing to Rhino stomp, Avalanche was inferior in almost every way, even damage-wise Rhino does double damage in close radius.

Saryn ultimate doing significantly more damage of the best type and has a short stun on top of it.  

Even Oberon - being one of the weakest frames past mid-game - his ultimate knocks down, providing shot-time CC. 

 

To conclude, there are many reasons to bring the freeze duration back to Avalanche and none against, it's only good for the game and should be done.

Edited March 20, 2014 by Monolake