So About Rhino.

[GrosslyIncandescent1709]

this thread entertains me, several people trying to prove that rhinos iron skin is worthless.. and all i'm thinking is "what would ember do in the described situations?" seriously, don't act like iron skin is bad or worthless, you're not forced to stare those heavy gunners down, use your mobility... there are frames that have no fallback layer of shielding on demand

[Bubsters]

spammable godmode 

 

ITT: people who don't know the meaning of "godmode"

[LurkenLurker]

And people say nova gets more hate but every one and their grandma complains on this forum about rhino and Every thing from His ultimate to Vanguard speed and i thought GW2 had a bad community.  

[Cwierz]

this thread entertains me, several people trying to prove that rhinos iron skin is worthless.. and all i'm thinking is "what would ember do in the described situations?" seriously, don't act like iron skin is bad or worthless, you're not forced to stare those heavy gunners down, use your mobility... there are frames that have no fallback layer of shielding on demand

Playing rhino makes you lazy.

I know this, because after using a loki for a while, I decided to pick up rhino prime without vanguard, because I did get a chasis on a random t3 run.

 

Despite how many people might deny it, it is true.

 

Rhino Charge- Who equips this lol?

Iron skin- CC immunity and extra shields

Roar- For when your X doesn't quite kill in one hit

Rhino Stomp- Fire and Forget I forgot to fire

[GetAtMeMods]

Let me tell you two useful pieces of information

One. Rhino does not have spammable godmode

Two. He is mastery locked for a reason

[LurkenLurker]

Let me tell you two useful pieces of information

One. Rhino does not have spammable godmode

Two. He is mastery locked for a reason

The problem is Rhino and trinity's need to both be moved Up higher on the mastery Rank List same with Nova to about at least 6 ore 8 but tbh Rhino is good and his mastery rank need to be higher on the chart then mastery rank 2.

Edited March 18, 2014 by LurkenLurker

[Thrymm]

Yeah, come on though.

 

We both know that the -5% on the Vanguard doesn't make a blind bit of difference on Rhino, his powers don't do that much damage normally and if you're min/ maxing for power damage with corrupt mods, intensify etc. 5% isn't going to make a difference to the build. While the 25% speed does more to keep Rhino alive via maneuverability than 5% extra strength ever would when applied to iron skin.

I pretty much ran through the whole list of how the reality of him works, and you decide picking out the most trivial piece of the whole puzzle changes things?

 

Come on though.

 

The reality is that if a person actually wants an Iron Skin of the maxed variety that they won't be utilizing the other issues on him.  You won't have the energy to stomp everything on the map nonstop, as for some reason is the case, or you'll be giving up Rush and the whole "fast as Loki" thing goes away, or you'll be giving up abilities that are, in fact, important to have.

 

In order for any of this to go away, you're looking at group synergy(primarily Trinity, in this case).  If group synergy is the problem, nerfing Rhino isn't the answer because the next step will be to nerf the next perceived item, then the next, etc.

[dancingknight]

If I remember correctly, iron skin was changed at least two times before it settled in its current form. Believe me when I say that its current iteration is the one that makes the most sense considering what came before. 

[LurkenLurker]

If I remember correctly, iron skin was changed at least two times before it settled in its current form. Believe me when I say that its current iteration is the one that makes the most sense considering what came before. 

It us to be more godmode then trinity at least with trinity you had to put slight effort but with old Iron skin  not so much

[fatpig84]

Actually i prefer Iron skin if it was affected by base armor.

Same for snow globe.

 

But instead of just adding hp, they add % damage reduction just like armor.

But DE thought moar HP was a good idea for globe..... But not for me.

[LordAsmolicious]

Iron skin first was god mode. then it got nerfed to damage reduction. (Ember had it aswell. and hers was better.) then it got buffed to damage absorbtion. trust me it aint god mode. its 2kish extra shields thats it. allows you to survive a bit longer. Trinitys 4.. its team godmode. so please complain about trinity. instead of Rhino.

[gamefreak9149]

Just let the tread die. It will give you a good laugh at first but really nothing to see here folks, just move on. The OP has given no evidence to support his dislike/hate for IS besides he believes it to be spammable god mod skill.

 

edit: This could be said about most powers in the game if built right. I can spam blessing and literally walk though everything while protecting my entire team from harm. Ash and Loki can invisible past everyone while having a massive melee damage boost. Heck before the latest frost change I spammed 3 because I could and it was my job on defense missions, all i was required to do as well. Nyx on defense, mobile defense and really anything else can be made super easy with chaos. Radical blind on Excalibur can be abused for a lot of fun. Loki's radial disarm can be setup for max range to disarm entire rooms, the next room over and the mobs that haven't spawned yet from how it feels to use.

Edited March 18, 2014 by gamefreak9149

[Drathin]

As any of the remaining sane Tennos out there should know by now, Rhino's Iron Skin is quite absurd, and i'm here to provide you an alternate version of it:

Iron Skin should've it's defensive ''Bubble'' removed completely, having a spammable godmode around can't be too much fun, only leads to overuse of certain frame.

So, instead of having this magical ''Bubble'' absorbing all the sh*t thrown at you, including airplanes,nukes, whatever you find lethal, you could replace it with boost to armor rating. Knockback resistance can be kept imo. Maybe with reduction to movement speed, as he is supposed to be a Tank frame.

Now this is only an suggestion, if you have nothing constructive to share, feel free to flash your sore butt somewhere else.

As a Rhino user I actually agree..but they would need to make him faster in exchange. I also think they should make his Iron Skin similar to the new changes made to Frost's Snow Globe. They should also make it able to turn off or on due to it would suck moving slow without tanking.

Edit: just to be clear I agree with making him a bit slower while using it not with taking away absorption. We already have an armor tank. Valkyr.

Edited March 18, 2014 by Drathin

[Vargras]

Casual reminder that the gameplay is balanced (at most) for level 30-45 mobs and not the 80+ that everyone is trying to cite as the reason for Iron Skin being okay.

 

It's still a very strong skill.

[LurkenLurker]

Casual reminder that the gameplay is balanced (at most) for level 30-45 mobs and not the 80+ that everyone is trying to cite as the reason for Iron Skin being okay.

 

It's still a very strong skill.

Still not godmode how it use to be

[Vargras]

Still not godmode how it use to be

Still doesn't change its relative strength compared to some other skills.

 

Also: calling others a twat is not a good way to make a convincing argument. I'm referring to your earlier comments when I say that.

[LurkenLurker]

Still doesn't change its relative strength compared to some other skills.

 

Also: calling others a twat is not a good way to make a convincing argument. I'm referring to your earlier comments when I say that.

That 2.7k dmg come at a loss of 30 48 to 60 Power efficiency and probably 2 mods slots if you using a 2 from the top blind rage thats a lose of 45 power efficiency to get that back you have to use Streamline and a max fleeting witch makes you lose about 60 duration and a mod slot. To get Super strong Iron skin there is a price to pay thats its balance.

Edited March 18, 2014 by LurkenLurker

[Vargras]

That 2.7k dmg come at a loss of 30 48 to 60 Power efficiency and probably 2 mods slots if you using a 2 from the top blind rage thats a lose of 48 power efficiency to get that back you have to use Streamline and a max fleeting witch makes you lose about 60 duration and a mod slot. To get Super strong Iron skin there is a price to pay thats its balance.

Even without min-maxing for power strength, it's still a very strong second shield, with a value that only a Frost, Rhino, or Zephyr could hope to get close to.

[LurkenLurker]

If you want balance to iron skin make iron skin only usable when your completely drained of shields Iron skin should be use as a means to recharge your shields safely and when you sheilds are back up it should end on you immediately and have a 10 15 or even 20 second CD This means Iron skins duration is directly tied to how much total shields you have and your shield recharge and now gameplay wise you don't have to use iron skin at all if you know how to dodge for the 30 to 45 lvl content and that 1k worth of shields is good enough its good enough for my volt. It would encourage reactive use of Iron skin instead of cast and forget. But for this change i would return iron skin to Absorbing all dmg like it use to be

Edited March 18, 2014 by LurkenLurker

[Vargras]

If you want balance to iron skin make iron skin only usable when your completely drained of shields Iron skin should be use as a means to recharge your shields safely and when you sheilds are back up it should end on you immediately and have a 10 15 or even 20 second CD This means Iron skins duration is directly tied to how much total shields you have and your shield recharge and now gameplay wise you don't have to use iron skin as all if you know how to dodge for the 30 to 45 lvl content and that 1k worth of shields is good enough its good enough for my volt. It would encourage reactive use of Iron skin instead of cast and forget. But for this change i would return iron skin to Absorbing all dmg like it use to be

I'd be all for that. I've always favored having skills that require intelligent use, instead of simply fire-and-forget, like Iron Skin and pre-nerf Snow Globe.

[Drathin]

Playing rhino makes you lazy.

I know this, because after using a loki for a while, I decided to pick up rhino prime without vanguard, because I did get a chasis on a random t3 run.

 

Despite how many people might deny it, it is true.

 

Rhino Charge- Who equips this lol?

Iron skin- CC immunity and extra shields

Roar- For when your X doesn't quite kill in one hit

Rhino Stomp- Fire and Forget I forgot to fire

I use Rhino Charge. I don't hit iron skin at the beginning of every mission, I use roar when a lot if tanky enemies need to die, and Rhino Stomp when over run. So just remember not every Rhino player is like that. Just like not every Nova spams 4. I do however realize I'm more of the exception.

[Phoenix86]

As any of the remaining sane Tennos out there should know by now, Rhino's Iron Skin is quite absurd, and i'm here to provide you an alternate version of it:

 

Iron Skin should've it's defensive ''Bubble'' removed completely, having a spammable godmode around can't be too much fun, only leads to overuse of certain frame.

 

So, instead of having this magical ''Bubble'' absorbing all the sh*t thrown at you, including airplanes,nukes, whatever you find lethal, you could replace it with boost to armor rating. Knockback resistance can be kept imo. Maybe with reduction to movement speed, as he is supposed to be a Tank frame.

 

Now this is only an suggestion, if you have nothing constructive to share, feel free to flash your sore butt somewhere else.

 

[angrykenji]

If you think iron skin is godmode, then stop playing against lvl 20 enemies, man up and do a 40min+ survival and you'll see how fast iron skin goes away. Fighting lvl 60s (~level 125 before damage 2.0) full of bombards and napalmers will strip it in a few hits. Also being constantly swarmed by lvl 60 mobs at that point with crossfires and you'll spend all your energy pressing 2. Mobility will not help you at this point unless if you pansy out and hide behind corners while you wait for your energy to regen.

Basically, endgame+ there are usually better choices than rhino.

Edited March 18, 2014 by angrykenji

[Axterix13]

Yet 2748 damage would kill any warframe? Just stuff some power effeciency up that Rhino's butt and you'll survive anything. Not to mention the fact that he already has the max shield capacity. Look. There's a reason why Rhinos are literally all you ever see online.

Rhino is hardly the only frame I see with great frequency.  The frames that stand out population-wise aren't due to how often they show up, but rather for how they don't (Banshee and Ash, for example).

 

The only place I'd say the Rhino population is out of whack is Nightmare Modes, but that's due to the dual stupidities that are no shield mode and energy drain mode.  With some frames trading off durability for offensive powers, most frames lacking in effective health, and nobody really wanting to have to set up special mod setups for random crap, that that happens is pretty much a no brainer.  The problem there isn't with Rhinos, but rather the mutators themselves.  Replace no shield mode with high damage and energy drain with an efficiency debuff, and the Rhino population in Nightmares would drop to more reasonable levels.  Heck, Nightmares are the only place I use my Rhino, and even then, for the alerts, I tend to go with my Saryn these days.  And even in NM mode, usually the only time you'll see two in a group is if you're one of the two playing him.

 

Once you get your mods, you're better off with other frames that pack more overall useful abilities for most content.  Doubly so if you don't have the Vanguard helm.  So, sure, he's useful for newer players who don't have the ranked up mods yet, but how often does even a supposedly squishy frame drop in most content?  And how much more damage do those squishier frames typically do than the Rhino?

 

Iron Skin really isn't a problem.  Sure, it scales a bit off in regards to content, but then, so do a crap ton of other powers.  Powers have three ranks, which make them easy to max, and at that third rank, they overpower most of the content.

 

That said, Vanguard helmet should be nerfed to a 10% speed boost.

Edited March 18, 2014 by Axterix13

[Vargras]

If you think iron skin is godmode, then stop playing against lvl 20 enemies, man up and do a 40min+ survival and you'll see how fast iron skin goes away. Fighting lvl 60s (~level 125 before damage 2.0) full of bombards and napalmers will strip it in a few hits. Also being constantly swarmed by lvl 60 mobs at that point with crossfires and you'll spend all your energy pressing 2. Mobility will not help you at this point unless if you pansy out and hide behind corners while you wait for your energy to regen.

Basically, endgame+ there are usually better choices than rhino.

The game is not balanced for 60+ mobs, please stop trying to say that it's proof of Iron Skin being okay.

 

End-game in DE's terms are level 30-45 mobs at the very most.