On Bows And A Psuedo-Random Thunderbolt Mark 2; Extra Fun Edition.

[Innocent_Flower]

Thunderbolt is currently a random occurance. That's not a terrible thing, but it could be better. 

These suggestions are so awesome we might as well call it Bows 2.0

 

 

Thunderbolt should be pseudo-random. 

 

It should never explode on weaker opponents who are on their lonesome. 

It should rarely explode on hitting unaware enemies

It should sometimes explode on heavy enemies.

It should often explode in hitting an enemy who's within explosion range of many of his allies

It should always explode when landing within a group of unaware enemies. Bonus points if there's a small delay in which the grineer can yelp in shock-horror

 

Furthermore it would be extra grand if: 

Arrows could explode on the ragdol IF it would cause more deaths. 

With punch through; arrows explode depending on where would be most damaging. Basicaly

- If a lone lancer stands a meter in front of a group of lancers then the arrow will go through him and explode in the group.

- If a group of lancers stand infront of a lone lancer then the arrow will explode within the group and ignore the loner; though if you're extra lucky a corpse might fly back and hit that lone lancer. 

 

On the explosion itself

- Changed from blast to elemental if elemental mods are equipped. (Even though i think thunderbolt does blast damage- one cryo rounds= Ice explosion.) Would help the explosion scale. 

- High status chance
- deals a small portion of the bow's physical damage with shrapnel. Would also help the explosion scale. 

- Gas explosions can linger around for a bit and damage those in the area over time. 

 

 

Other stuff

Upgrading the mod would probably increase blast radius rather than the explosion chance if this mod was added. 

 

Double the fun= Multishot causes the player to fire several arrows at once at several enemies if there's a likelyhood that those nearby enemies will be killed by a single arrow. Probably asking for too much here.  

 

 

Oh yeah and the cernos is bad. Needs a prime version. 

Edited March 23, 2014 by Innocent_Flower

[Mr.ominous]

I don't believe all of this is possible or worth the effort, but I am always pleased when RNG's grip on the game is reduced.

 

+1

[OptimumBow0]

I love it when explosions are improved.

 

+1

[Sunfaiz]

HEY Micheal Bay !! Didn't know you played war frame !!! {+1 agreed}

[notionphil]

so basically you want firing the bow to become a cinematic AI controlled event

[MechaTails]

Nnnnnaaaahhhhh lol

 

I like Thunderbolt, at the current 30% it explodes often enough that it's a useful happy surprise instead of a spammy penta-gasm.

 

While I like the ideas of intricate weapon tweaking, I think that level of complexity is best for another game entirely, one that focuses extensively on weapon customization. We can mod weapons with very basic effects right now and I don't see that changing ever.

[Innocent_Flower]

so basically you want firing the bow to become a cinematic AI controlled event

You make it sound like I'm trying to take control away from the player. It's the total opposite. This would give the player far more control than 'will it explode? I don't know! 

 

 

While I like the ideas of intricate weapon tweaking, I think that level of complexity is best for another game entirely, one that focuses extensively on weapon customization. We can mod weapons with very basic effects right now and I don't see that changing ever.

The game is almost entirely about gaining weapons and tweaking them. 

[notionphil]

You make it sound like I'm trying to take control away from the player. It's the total opposite. This would give the player far more control than 'will it explode? I don't know! 

 

The game is almost entirely about gaining weapons and tweaking them. 

 

Once you have multishot, there is an explosion nearly everytime. There's not much wondering - but I agree, no reason for any randomness.

 

However, having the arrow optimally determine the best time to explode based on a number of complex situations such as enemy positioning/strength will FEEL random to the player. How do you know where the player wanted the arrow to blow up? How do you know if they were aware of all nearby enemies  (cover, hallways, positioning)

 

Maybe he shot it at the lone target because that one was about to groundpound - and he needed him dead now.

 

If you want to give the player more control, give them more control - not an automatic system that attempts to interpret their intent.

 

Thunderbolt - 100% of explosion

Lightningbolt - 100% to deal elec explosion after it hits the ground, will pass through targets

etc...

firebolt - arrow sticks in targets, explodes when right mouse is clicked

[MechaTails]

The game is almost entirely about gaining weapons and tweaking them. 

 

Like I said, at a very basic level.

[Innocent_Flower]

I don't use multishot.

 

 

If there's a lone target, you wouldn't need the explosion and therefore you'd just shoot the guy rather than a nearby surface. 
If it's a group of enemies and you think you're in stealth... well the enemy's aware movement is radicaly different from it's unaware. I don't think it's so much of a problem. Perhaps we could run with a "if fully charged and it lands near a group= explosion" 

 

 

 

 

Darktails: the whole thing is based around one mod. It's still a very simple thing on the player side of things. 

 

For the both of you- The player doesn't even need to be aware of the intricacies involving what the mod is doing, do they? They simply reap the benefits of thunderbolt more often working when they'd want it. To get a bow to level 30 you're going to be with it for a long time; it'd be easy to work out. 

[Pixues]

I suggested a charge mechanism once: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/90084-thunderbolt-rework/

 

apparently the topic has been archived.

 

Just remove randomness entirely and give the player control instead. 

[MechaTails]

Yep, it's just one mod, and the player would probably eventually get used to its quirks (and I'm fine with tweaking mods to make them more interesting), but all that stuff you posted-

 

It should never explode on weaker opponents who are on their lonesome. 

It should rarely explode on hitting unaware enemies

It should sometimes explode on heavy enemies.

It should often explode in hitting an enemy who's within explosion range of many of his allies

It should always explode when landing within a group of unaware enemies. Bonus points if there's a small delay in which the grineer can yelp in shock-horror

 

-seems terribly arbitrary. Why would it never explode on weak opponents? I love exploding all enemies. What determines if they're "weak" anyway? Why would it rarely explode on unaware enemies? Why would heavies and mobs magically be more susceptible to the proc? Why would lone unaware enemies almost never cause it to proc, but groups of unawares would always proc? Etc...

 

Meh. If you're going for more control then changing it to a charge mechanic would make more sense. As in, you charge the bow like 3 seconds to shoot an explosive arrow. Or whatever lol.

 

Whatever happens, I'd probably still use it anyway.

[Daemon-of-Dirt]

I for one am plenty happy with how often it explodes right now, though the idea of other kinds of arrow effects is pretty appealing.  It'd be nice to be able to increase the percent chance of it, or for it to just be higher on the mod itself (which I don't think would make my dread op), but it's hardly necessary. 

 

Edit: It is unfortunate that they archived the thunderbolt - bow charge time post, that would be a great modification and fix most everything without unbalancing it.

Edited March 24, 2014 by instig8r

[Innocent_Flower]

Why did i say it would preferably not explode on weak loners? Stealth. 

 

As for big guys it'd be more of a 'can i kill you in one hit? No? explode!' 

[notionphil]

I don't use multishot.

---

 

The player doesn't even need to be aware of the intricacies involving what the mod is doing, do they? They simply reap the benefits of thunderbolt more often working when they'd want it. To get a bow to level 30 you're going to be with it for a long time; it'd be easy to work out. 

 

 

If the player is not aware of the "intricacies" of when an explosion happens, you are removing player control.

 

 

Why did i say it would preferably not explode on weak loners? Stealth. 

 

As for big guys it'd be more of a 'can i kill you in one hit? No? explode!' 

 

Did you know that explosions deal a different type of damage than arrows?

 

How do you know which damage type I'd like to deal, in each of your situations?

 

Players would rather choose if their arrow blows up or not, or at least have it always do the same thing, than have the computer guess at it.

 

Also, go get/use multishot, so you can see how this works.

[MechaTails]

Why did i say it would preferably not explode on weak loners? Stealth. 

 

As for big guys it'd be more of a 'can i kill you in one hit? No? explode!' 

 

If a player uses a weapon that semi-randomly causes explosions, stealth probably isn't the first thing on their mind lol. It looks like you want to have it both ways, a loud powerful mob killer and a stealthy single-target weapon in one, which is neither good or bad I guess. I think it'd be better to give the player more control over what kind of playstyle they're after instead of semi-pseudo-half-control.