Agent_of_Change Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 I love how everyone piles on the honest guy and makes him out to be the bad guy, you guys are priceless! It's the nature of the beast in this case, the scamee made choices that allowed himself to be scammed. That is not DE's fault, it doesn't excuse the scammer but there is not going to be a lot of sympathy when the risks of trading with strangers in an arena with 0 oversight should be obvious anyone. I kind of expected the other person to get banned and my items returned. You know like in other games or real life. The guy was rank 11 and going on about how he was afraid of getting scammed. So I took the benefit of the doubt and got ripped. I'm not gonna put the players name, because apparently that is worse than him stealing from me. The problem here is it is your word against the scammer situation and DE has nothing at all to go on but what you and that person says. For all they know regardless of what anyone tells them the trade that happened may have been the agreed trade, it may be buyers remorse, it could be any number of things. That you got scammed sucks, no doubt of that, but you should really be careful in the future. Get your trade up front, any one who won't work with you probably shouldn't be traded with. Expect to get ripped off and you will be more likely to avoid it. Caveat Emptor. Bottom line it's not DE's fault and there isn't much they can do for you without setting a bad precedent of just accepting the first side of the story they hear, and more than that it's unreasonable to expect a company their size to investigate in depth every report of trade scamming that comes their way they just aren't that big. If your scammer gets reported by a few other people he will likely get his just deserts because that's the only way to build an evidence base in a situation where hearsay is your only evidence of wrongdoing, testimony from multiple people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 What is the problem? The trade didn't went like expected. Why did this happen? Somebody didn't pay attention. Solution? None (yet). >>> Maybe be more careful while trading especially with strangers. I know one child that was left behind... http://www.greatschools.org/improvement/quality-teaching/61-no-child-left-behind.gs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onisa Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 Hi Silverton, Thank you for contacting us. I'm sorry to hear of the trade experience you had with this player. When we designed the Trade UI, we took care to build protections into it for players that would save them from situations such as this. When players make deals with each other that bypass the protections we put in place (such as this deal, where the trade is broken into multiple stages and the deal relies on both players being honest with one another), we cannot be responsible for the results. We do encourage all players to be honest and respectful with one another, but unfortunately we are not able to reverse trades where both parties have clicked "accept". Thank you for your understanding. So they've only out and said they can't refund you. The naive part of me wants to believe that this person's player ID has been noted and the situation is being looked into. But we've all seen what the naive parts of us get us. Also, how does limiting the number of items in a single transaction protect anyone? All it does is make this kind of scam feasible. Someone at DE skipped breakfast that morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taiiat Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 (edited) Digital Extremes is not responsible for any trades you feel unfulfilled in. the same goes in every other Video Game ever. Trading is at your own risk. edit: if you buy a car, and then crash it into a tree, the warranty doesn't cover that. because it's not the fault of the manufacturer. Edited March 26, 2014 by taiiat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverton Posted March 26, 2014 Author Share Posted March 26, 2014 The problem here is it is your word against the scammer situation and DE has nothing at all to go on but what you and that person says. For all they know regardless of what anyone tells them the trade that happened may have been the agreed trade, it may be buyers remorse, it could be any number of things. That you got scammed sucks, no doubt of that, but you should really be careful in the future. Get your trade up front, any one who won't work with you probably shouldn't be traded with. I'd say yeah, but in my screenshots he admits to stealing. He admitted it and they won't do anything. Basically it sucks to be me and they will let him do it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llyssa Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 Hi Silverton, Thank you for contacting us. I'm sorry to hear of the trade experience you had with this player. When we designed the Trade UI, we took care to build protections into it for players that would save them from situations such as this. When players make deals with each other that bypass the protections we put in place (such as this deal, where the trade is broken into multiple stages and the deal relies on both players being honest with one another), we cannot be responsible for the results. We do encourage all players to be honest and respectful with one another, but unfortunately we are not able to reverse trades where both parties have clicked "accept". Thank you for your understanding. They're being honest. They didn't say they're not doing anything to him about it, just, it's already been established that they have already told us on the trade channel itself that anything beyond the UI functionality is out of their hands. I recall at one point some moon clan was offering people membership in exchange for plat, and then kicking them out one week later. Now, that is wrong, and they did, as I understand it, ban the individuals responsible, but investigating and reversing all extra-UI trades that *might* have been dishonest is way more time investment than they have staff for--they would have to first confirm everything is as you say it is, and then write a script specifically for you to be launched with the next hotfix/patch/update. There's millions of players, so that suddenly becomes a bit of a crazy burden. That's why they tell you "don't do it". You did it anyway, despite being told not to. =/ The guy is likely to get penalized or banned for his misdeeds, but beyond that, the game isn't equipped to handle that(and you knew that ahead of time). =( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scherhardt Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 I Lol'd. You just let the other person scam you. Tip, never trust anyone unless you know that person personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordofTibera Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 You need to learn to be smart with your transactions. Do not do 4 separate transactions--you have like 4 or 5 slots to trade at one time per session and ONLY if you confirm that the trade is okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llyssa Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 I Lol'd. You just let the other person scam you. Tip, never trust anyone unless you know that person personally. Don't trust them either. >.> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent_of_Change Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 I'd say yeah, but in my screenshots he admits to stealing. He admitted it and they won't do anything. Basically it sucks to be me and they will let him do it again. Unfortunately you have thrown yourself in the arena of public opinion without any tools to buy you support. If your screen shots are explicitly incriminating it would be one thing, but so far we as your audience can't really judge on anything but what has been said. I'd be curious what your screen shots say if you can post them with the offenders name crossed out (no name and shaming). If you are truly wronged, or no offense more importantly, if this guy is really out there cheating people it would do us all good to help see him come under the attention of DE. But as I said before we don't have enough to go on other than you admit accepting a deal the relied way too much on trusting a complete stranger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverton Posted March 26, 2014 Author Share Posted March 26, 2014 If I'd of known that there was nothing that could be done if I got scammed than I wouldn't of traded. This game has between 5 and 20k players on most of the time according to Steam. Meanwhile I can play huge MMOs that when I get scammed they do something. Not just awww sucks for you. Dungeons and Dragons (old one) got scammed out of some loot. Screenshots prooved it and bam reversed and guy banned. Allods Online -scammed out of 150 dollars in crystals. Bam banned and reversed. Neverwinter -key scammer using broken text bug. Bam banned and reversed. DFO-Broken text bug abused. Bam banned and reversed. Half the time the chat log was looked at by staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onisa Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 You need to learn to be smart with your transactions. Do not do 4 separate transactions--you have like 4 or 5 slots to trade at one time per session and ONLY if you confirm that the trade is okay. There are three (3) slots available per side per trade. The fourth item would have to be part of a second transaction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverton Posted March 26, 2014 Author Share Posted March 26, 2014 (edited) Final thing I'm going to post on this (I hope). I'm not posting this to get your support or anything hell hate me all you want, but just be careful this game's support won't help you. I just sent a message to the player and he is still on. Edited March 26, 2014 by Silverton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent_of_Change Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 Finally thing I'm going to post on this (I hope). I'm not posting this to get your support or anything hell hate me all you want, but just be careful this game's support won't help you. I just sent a message to the player and he is still on. Your experience runs counter to most stories about support, which is why there is a skeptical view towards your attitude. Support has been emminently helpful when I've dealt with them personally. Post your proof, it's the only way you can validate your claim at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llyssa Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 If I'd of known that there was nothing that could be done if I got scammed than I wouldn't of traded. This game has between 5 and 20k players on most of the time according to Steam. Meanwhile I can play huge MMOs that when I get scammed they do something. Not just awww sucks for you. Dungeons and Dragons (old one) got scammed out of some loot. Screenshots prooved it and bam reversed and guy banned. Allods Online -scammed out of 150 dollars in crystals. Bam banned and reversed. Neverwinter -key scammer using broken text bug. Bam banned and reversed. DFO-Broken text bug abused. Bam banned and reversed. Half the time the chat log was looked at by staff. Er, you get scammed an awful lot. Perhaps you need to re-evaluate when you consider something "too good to be true" versus "too good to pass up". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onisa Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 Your experience runs counter to most stories about support, which is why there is a skeptical view towards your attitude. Support has been emminently helpful when I've dealt with them personally. Post your proof, it's the only way you can validate your claim at this point. That would be naming and shaming though, something seriously not encouraged on the forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent_of_Change Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 That would be naming and shaming though, something seriously not encouraged on the forums. as I said earlier cross out the offenders name, easy enough to do even with something like MS Paint or creative cropping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Force Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 Dude, i am sorry and i understand your anger, but i am working philisophy exam now, and my topic is nietzche, so you wont want to get me talking about ruse, lies, illusions and tricks. This is a defense mechanism we have developed. Because human are so weak that we need a defense mechanism such as intellect. First, we used it to confront the nature and survive. Then we formed society because we couldn't survive on our own, and against other human threats which also struggled to survive. Thus, we even created Social Contract. We said stealing and murder are crimes but, we all know, reality and truth dont exist, its all an image which we create trough a nerval excitation, and apply to our own perception. In fact, you say he stole it from you, but you can't even be sure, maybe it was you who was fooled and perceived everything wrong, and that stealing is the right thing to do to thrive. You haven't gave any thought on the other person's perception, you were fooled thinking the thing in itself as you perceive was the truth, and so yıu are here. In fact, you might not have been robbed, it might be just an illusion. You're a gentleman and a scholar, Cemges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverton Posted March 26, 2014 Author Share Posted March 26, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llyssa Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 -snip- A little hard to follow with everyone being censored using the same color. That being said, it's an odd convo, and it looks like he says you're scamming him too. So......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 children's playground Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverton Posted March 26, 2014 Author Share Posted March 26, 2014 (edited) A little hard to follow with everyone being censored using the same color. That being said, it's an odd convo, and it looks like he says you're scamming him too. So......... He claims that the trade never happened and that I still had the items, even though they weren't in my inventory, but I have the small item that he traded me. I'd have even more screenshots from earlier, but midway through taking screenshots the warframe screenshot thing stopped working. Edited March 26, 2014 by Silverton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent_of_Change Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 (edited) A little hard to follow with everyone being censored using the same color. That being said, it's an odd convo, and it looks like he says you're scamming him too. So......... Yeah... I'm not entirely convinced DE made the wrong call, or at least that there isn't enough to really drop the hammer on anyone based on that conversation. Edited March 26, 2014 by Agent_of_Change Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cemges Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 Ok the thing is very simple. Did you see that "don't leave your belongings out" sorta sign on a gym? They provide you lockers, and their real job is to give you a trainer and let you use gym machines there, but if you leave something out of your lockers and it gets stollen, its not in their responsibility. They serve you the means to not get scammed after all. If you manage to use your intellect, you wont get scammed. If you fail, it really isnt DE's fault. They can make some more UI changes, but thats all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobafetthotmail Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 I kind of expected the other person to get banned and my items returned. You know like in other games or real life. The guy was rank 11 and going on about how he was afraid of getting scammed. So I took the benefit of the doubt and got ripped. I'm not gonna put the players name, because apparently that is worse than him stealing from me. DE washes its hands by clearly stating that trades about stuff are not enforced. First message when you open the trading tab. If you decide to ignore the warning, it's only your fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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