Excalibur Prime On Ps4

[HansJurgen]

It's not a matter of bragging rights. It's a matter of contract and trust.

 

Since you do not care about bragging, and you agree that other people should be able to get Lato, Scana and Excalibur prime, I do not see where the trust issue fits in anymore. It is like asking someone to make a promise and then change your mind.

 

It really is amazing how important it is for you people to prevent other players from using the same pixels as you.

 

This has to be the purest form of greed and conceit. We are talking about things that literally have no intrinsic value (zero cost to reproduce, no functional difference from normal Excal), and a slight threat to your perceived value/status that comes from owning these imaginary items causes REAL emotional pain & panic.

 

There is going to be some really strange cognitive dissonance issues that will be brought up by our increasingly more sophisticated virtual worlds.

[Valiant]

I tell them all the time about it, and they find it hilarious, since pixels and limited edition cars are absolutely the same thing, you know.

Welcome to the modern age. May be pixels but it's the same principle.

 

If it's only pixels then it shouldn't matter whether you do not have access to it.

Edited April 1, 2014 by Naith

[rapt0rman]

Stuff has the value of how much people will pay for it... and people payed HUNDREDS of dollars for it under the contract that it would be exclusive, and now DE can't go back on their word.

 

It is like asking someone to make a promise and then change your mind.

[Volt_Cruelerz]

Since you do not care about bragging, and you agree that other people should be able to get Lato, Scana and Excalibur prime, I do not see where the trust issue fits in anymore. It is like asking someone to make a promise and then change your mind.

 

It really is amazing how important it is for you people to prevent other players from using the same pixels as you.

 

This has to be the purest form of greed and conceit. We are talking about things that literally have no intrinsic value (zero cost to reproduce, no functional difference from normal Excal), and a slight threat to your perceived value/status that comes from owning these imaginary items causes REAL emotional pain & panic.

 

There is going to be some really strange cognitive dissonance issues that will be brought up by our increasingly more sophisticated virtual worlds.

you must misunderstand me then if you think this is greed or arrogance. Let me tell you a little story about the primes... They were a thank you to founders. There were no other primes at the time. People wanted other shiny things, so eventually the developers made more. What you are asking for is for DE to go back on the claim at the time of sale about exclusivity. This is a monstrously poor business decision. You do not make a contract and then arbitrarily change it later. Legally, you can't do that. Now, thanks to the EULA, they legally can. Recall though what happened when the devs said that Frost Prime would be exclusive to those who participated in the fusion moa event. When it turned out he wasn't, rage erupted because DE went back on their word. DE said in several locations that Frost Prime was going to be exclusive, yet he was not. Customer trust is vital for a business.

Imagine how much greater the uprising will if they went back on something that involved actual monetary transaction. Warframe very well could die as a direct result of such loss confidence. I'm American, so I'm not sure of this, but I've even heard that by EU law, DE would required give a full refund. Can you imagine the cost of that?

If they never would have said that they would be exclusive, I'd have no qualms. But I can tell you that seeing as how they did, going back on their word could destroy the game and the company.

[HansJurgen]

Stuff has the value of how much people will pay for it... and people payed HUNDREDS of dollars for it under the contract that it would be exclusive, and now DE can't go back on their word.

 

Way to misinterpret and hairsplit on wording of a single sentence, as if that automatically refutes my entire argument.

 

I said, if you people weren't acting greedy, filled with conceit teens who never earned a penny in their entire lives, you would not have an issue with allowing DE to not keep their word and make those idiotic pixels available for the exact same price to every gullible customer who does not understand or care about the value of 250 American dollars, because they are either rich or stupid.

 

In any case, thanks for proving my point. You paid the monthly income of a small village in Africa for the mere license (no, you do not own those pixels) to play with a bunch of pixel toys, which did not cost DE anything to produce, on the condition that no one else will ever be able to play with that junk, exactly how a 5 year old likes things, by himself. Narcissistic, sociopaths disorders are intrinsic to young age (it is written in our genes so we can survive).

 

I  hope you realize that in a couple months or years from now most of you would have likely found different games to care about, and this will be resolved by itself? Right?

[rapt0rman]

Way to misinterpret and hairsplit on wording of a single sentence, as if that automatically refutes my entire argument.

 

I said, if you people weren't acting greedy, filled with conceit teens who never earned a penny in their entire lives, you would not have an issue with allowing DE to not keep their word and make those idiotic pixels available for the exact same price to every gullible customer who does not understand or care about the value of 250 American dollars, because they are either rich or stupid.

 

In any case, thanks for proving my point. You paid the monthly income of a small village in Africa for the mere license (no, you do not own those pixels) to play with a bunch of pixel toys, which did not cost DE anything to produce, on the condition that no one else will ever be able to play with that junk, exactly how a 5 year old likes things, by himself. Narcissistic, sociopaths disorders are intrinsic to young age (it is written in our genes so we can survive).

 

I  hope you realize that in a couple months or years from now most of you would have likely found different games to care about, and this will be resolved by itself? Right?

I never bought the founders pack :)

[Volt_Cruelerz]

Way to misinterpret and hairsplit on wording of a single sentence, as if that automatically refutes my entire argument.

 

I said, if you people weren't acting greedy, filled with conceit teens who never earned a penny in their entire lives, you would not have an issue with allowing DE to not keep their word and make those idiotic pixels available for the exact same price to every gullible customer who does not understand or care about the value of 250 American dollars, because they are either rich or stupid.

 

In any case, thanks for proving my point. You paid the monthly income of a small village in Africa for the mere license (no, you do not own those pixels) to play with a bunch of pixel toys, which did not cost DE anything to produce, on the condition that no one else will ever be able to play with that junk, exactly how a 5 year old likes things, by himself. Narcissistic, sociopaths disorders are intrinsic to young age (it is written in our genes so we can survive).

 

I  hope you realize that in a couple months or years from now most of you would have likely found different games to care about, and this will be resolved by itself? Right?

I'll be responding to the bolded statements.

 

1. I'm in my twenties working on degrees in computer science, psychology, and philosophy.  I've worked both at a standard company and as a professional singer.

 

2. If they are idiotic, why are you, yourself making such a big deal out of them?  Beyond that, video games have a surprising efficiency in terms of entertainment compared to other mediums.  You can get hundreds of hours of entertainment out of a game.  I've spent $105 on this game and have about 500 hours in.  20 cents per hour of entertainment.  No other medium offers such efficiency.

 

3. Sociopathy is social psychopathy and applies to things like gang activity.  It is in no way related to the subject at hand.

 

 

This debate has been going on for months.  What you argue is nothing new and has been debunked time and again.

Edited April 1, 2014 by Volt_Cruelerz

[HansJurgen]

you must misunderstand me then if you think this is greed or arrogance. Let me tell you a little story about the primes... They were a thank you to founders. There were no other primes at the time. People wanted other shiny things, so eventually the developers made more. What you are asking for is for DE to go back on the claim at the time of sale about exclusivity. This is a monstrously poor business decision. You do not make a contract and then arbitrarily change it later. Legally, you can't do that. Now, thanks to the EULA, they legally can. Recall though what happened when the devs said that Frost Prime would be exclusive to those who participated in the fusion moa event. When it turned out he wasn't, rage erupted because DE went back on their word. DE said in several locations that Frost Prime was going to be exclusive, yet he was not. Customer trust is vital for a business.

Imagine how much greater the uprising will if they went back on something that involved actual monetary transaction. Warframe very well could die as a direct result of such loss confidence. I'm American, so I'm not sure of this, but I've even heard that by EU law, DE would required give a full refund. Can you imagine the cost of that?

If they never would have said that they would be exclusive, I'd have no qualms. But I can tell you that seeing as how they did, going back on their word could destroy the game and the company.

 

 

I was not referring to you on a personal level, but "you" (plural) as a group. You, the people who are obsessed with worthless pixels. If you are not one of these people, there is no reason for you to defend yourself, because you did not care about any of it, to begin with. Right?

 

You are contradicting yourself. You say you aren't greedy and addicted to made up junk that has no value, yet you invoke made up laws that do not guarantee any of it. DE can do anything with their game, and unless it is some sort of bait and switch, which it isn't, there is no law to forbid it. It is irrelevant whether other people have access to the same pixels, when your access to said shiny pixels is preserved as is.

 

Software is licensed, you own none of it. If a dev made content available because the community wished to, and it improved their relation with said community, nothing will stop them from doing so. Only that, in this case, the community (if it even deserves to be called that) does not want to because reasons. There is nothing immoral about it either, and by and large the press will side with DE on this by not caring.

 

It is like a car. No! it is like a train, it is Superpixel on the monitor screen. Hurr, durr, I am a dreadful human sewage.

 

It is not very nice of you to claim that I would like to own this sort of nonsense. I would not spend 250 American dollars on dumb pixels on the internet if my life depended on it. I do not see how pointing out how preposterous this obsession with fantasy land exclusivity is, has anything to do with it.

 

I would spend money to support an honest and creative developer, however. Which I already did. And if I was rewarded with silly collectibles for it, I would want everyone to also receive said stuff (be it they have to grind for it). I do not want my name on a golden plaque because I am not a drooling idiot. I am happy the game exists, and I get to have a swell time playing it.

[HansJurgen]

Corrected my post on second read.

 

You are an idiot with this particular part. There is plenty of reason to take issue with DE not keeping their word. You are not a founder, you will never have Founders items, get over it already. It's been iron stated they will not be returning, you are not owed the items, you did not help found nor fund the game, you have no entitlement to said items.

 

"I hope you realize that in a couple months or years from now most of you would have likely found different games to care about, and this will be resolved by itself? Right?"

 

This part is more applicable to yourself I'd say

 

Yea, no.

 

Only that it does not address anything I mentioned in my original post, and you are confusing derision with the sheer stupidity it takes to want to buy pixels for 250 bucks.

 

GG, was close. Insert coin, and try again.

[Volt_Cruelerz]

I was not referring to you on a personal level, but "you" (plural) as a group. You, the people who are obsessed with worthless pixels. If you are not one of these people, there is no reason for you to defend yourself, because you did not care about any of it, to begin with. Right?

 

You are contradicting yourself. You say you aren't greedy and addicted to made up junk that has no value, yet you invoke made up laws that do not guarantee any of it. DE can do anything with their game, and unless it is some sort of bait and switch, which it isn't, there is no law to forbid it. It is irrelevant whether other people have access to the same pixels, when your access to said shiny pixels is preserved as is.

 

Software is licensed, you own none of it. If a dev made content available because the community wished to, and it improved their relation with said community, nothing will stop them from doing so. Only that, in this case, the community (if it even deserves to be called that) does not want to because reasons. There is nothing immoral about it either, and by and large the press will side with DE on this by not caring.

 

It is like a car. No! it is like a train, it is Superpixel on the monitor screen. Hurr, durr, I am a dreadful human sewage.

 

It is not very nice of you to claim that I would like to own this sort of nonsense. I would not spend 250 American dollars on dumb pixels on the internet if my life depended on it. I do not see how pointing out how preposterous this obsession with fantasy land exclusivity is, has anything to do with it.

 

I would spend money to support an honest and creative developer, however. Which I already did. And if I was rewarded with silly collectibles for it, I would want everyone to also receive said stuff (be it they have to grind for it). I do not want my name on a golden plaque because I am not a drooling idiot. I am happy the game exists, and I get to have a swell time playing it.

First off, I don't even like the playstyle of Excalibur.  I maxed Excalibur Prime and he's been sitting in storage ever since.  I was defending myself because it sounded like you were making a global accusation which would include me.

 

Huh?  What laws did I invoke?  In the US, if it weren't for the EULA, they could probably get sued for false advertising.  The EU thing was just something I've heard.  I haven't bothered to investigate it.  I even warned that I wasn't sure about it.

 

DE never should have made the founders equipment exclusive in the first place, IMO.  Unfortunately, they did and now we're stuck because if they go back on their word, the playerbase will throw a fit about how DE went back on their word with their initial customers.  If someone breaks a promise with you, you don't trust them as much.  When it's a company, you're less inclined to make purchases in the future.

 

DE is a company.  If their customers don't trust them, income goes down.  That's what it comes down to.  Going back on your word makes people trust you less.  That's a really dumb thing for a company to do.

Edited April 1, 2014 by Volt_Cruelerz

[HansJurgen]

I'll be responding to the bolded statements.

 

1. I'm in my twenties working on degrees in computer science, psychology, and philosophy.  I've worked both at a standard company and as a professional singer.

 

2. If they are idiotic, why are you, yourself making such a big deal out of them?  Beyond that, video games have a surprising efficiency in terms of entertainment compared to other mediums.  You can get hundreds of hours of entertainment out of a game.  I've spent $105 on this game and have about 500 hours in.  20 cents per hour of entertainment.  No other medium offers such efficiency.

 

3. Sociopathy is social psychopathy and applies to things like gang activity.  It is in no way related to the subject at hand.

 

 

This debate has been going on for months.  What you argue is nothing new and has been debunked time and again.

 

 

Picking at straws debunks what, exactly? For someone with a degree in philosophy, how come you can't spot your own fallacies?

 

I am entitled to my own opinions. What exactly should prevent me from deriding horrible people when they act horribly towards their peers over pixels in some video game? Help me out here, you are the one who studies all that fancy stuff, and knows it all.

 

Tell me, now. How exactly wanting to have exclusive rights on pixels is in any way sane and mature? Also, please refer me to what law forbids a company from monetizing software bits by slapping an exclusive tag on it? Companies do it all the time with preorder games, and no one cares if all of that is made available via GOTY or whatever, later on. Some get mad at the monitor because reasons, but no one cares what sperglords do, anyway.

 

For someone with a degree in psychology, how come you are so off about sociopathy?

 

No, it is not a form of social psychopathy, granted the terms are often used interchangeably for whatever reason. And what does it matter, in the first place?

 

The point of the matter is, unless we are talking about a drooling nutcase or a child, why would anyone care whether others get to play with the same pixels as they do? What is up with that? Explain me, doctor.

[HansJurgen]

First off, I don't even like the playstyle of Excalibur.  I maxed Excalibur Prime and he's been sitting in storage ever since.  I was defending myself because it sounded like you were making a global accusation which would include me.

 

Huh?  What laws did I invoke?  In the US, if it weren't for the EULA, they could probably get sued for false advertising.  The EU thing was just something I've heard.  I haven't bothered to investigate it.  I even warned that I wasn't sure about it.

 

DE never should have made the founders equipment exclusive in the first place, IMO.  Unfortunately, they did and now we're stuck because if they go back on their word, the playerbase will throw a fit about how DE went back on their word with their initial customers.  If someone breaks a promise with you, you don't trust them as much.  When it's a company, you're less inclined to make purchases in the future.

 

DE is a company.  If their customers don't trust them, income goes down.  That's what it comes down to.  Going back on your word makes people trust you less.  That's a really dumb thing for a company to do.

 

 

It is the prerogative of every American citizen to sue another American citizen. That does not save you from getting laughed out of court, though. There is no false advertising involved in slapping "exclusive" on a pile of worthless bits. I do not have a degree in that, but I read stuff. I trust the stuff I read more than a stranger on the internet who has, you know, opinions. You could read stuff, too. It is enlightening, really.

 

I do not see a problem with getting back on your word, if people do not care whether you keep it or not, because it involves promising something that is worthless, in the first place. If you promised something silly, would you still do it if those who you gave your word to decided it is what it is, and you are better off getting a pass?

 

Of course, if said people are drooling idiots who suffer from a severe case of cognitive dissonance and they can't tell a skin in a video game has no intrinsic value whatsoever, it makes complete sense for them to yell at DE to keep their word, no matter how stupid and greedy that is. Hence my point.

 

Nice people do not have a problem with sharing, and they perceive it as a positive thing. Not so nice people do have a problem with sharing, and they believe it makes them special if the literal poo they hold in their hands is "exclusive", and no one else can have it. Hence the reason i am deriding people who get riled up over their Excalibur prime not being unironically exclusive garbage. :))

 

Since you do not even like that frame, why do you even care whether other people get the chance to play with it? You do not? Good. There is no need for you to feel offended, or be upset about anything.

 

Additionally, your perception of DE being nice to newcomers and making this prime stuff available to everyone will improve, right?

Edited April 1, 2014 by HansJurgen

[Volt_Cruelerz]

Picking at straws debunks what, exactly? For someone with a degree in philosophy, how come you can't spot your own fallacies?

 

I am entitled to my own opinions. What exactly should prevent me from deriding horrible people when they act horribly towards their peers over pixels in some video game? Help me out here, you are the one who studies all that fancy stuff, and knows it all.

 

Tell me, now. How exactly wanting to have exclusive rights on pixels is in any way sane and mature? Also, please refer me to what law forbids a company from monetizing software bits by slapping an exclusive tag on it? Companies do it all the time with preorder games, and no one cares if all of that is made available via GOTY or whatever, later on. Some get mad at the monitor because reasons, but no one cares what sperglords do, anyway.

 

For someone with a degree in psychology, how come you are so off about sociopathy?

 

No, it is not a form of social psychopathy, granted the terms are often used interchangeably for whatever reason. And what does it matter, in the first place?

 

The point of the matter is, unless we are talking about a drooling nutcase or a child, why would anyone care whether others get to play with the same pixels as they do? What is up with that? Explain me, doctor.

You are absolutely entitled to your own opinions.  Acting horribly towards peers is naturally a poor thing to do.

 

Is expecting that which you are promised sane and mature?  I would say yes.  Regarding which laws, I answer that above.

 

It's not a form of social psychopathy.  It is social psychopathy.  Perhaps you're going by a different definition, but I'm going by the interpretation of the DSM-5 used by my professor who at my university has a reputation of being particularly good at his job.  I was just pointing out that sociopathy wasn't a relevant thing.  Narcissism is obviously relevant to your accusations and I'm sure there are some fools that are being selfish.  The thing is though, just because there are some narcissists doesn't mean that those of us who happen to oppose you all are.

 

I just want the game to survive and I see releasing founders gear as a very very poor business decision.  I want people to enjoy the game.  That's why I personally put money in.  I wanted to support DE.  The founders equipment never should have been promised as exclusive because it would have prevented this debate and then we could release them with minimal anger from founders as only the selfish ones would have complained.

 

It is your argument then (and correct me if I mistake you), that because releasing the founders gear would be in the best interests of the game, players would see that and would overlook the broken promise.  While some players would, not all would.  Personally, I'd be somewhere in the middle.  There is a principle to keeping your word that I (and I certainly assume many others) value.  

 

I know that I would trust DE a great deal less if they were to release the founders equipment and I know I'm not the only one in this and from what I've seen, this seems to be the majority view among veteran players (or at least veteran forum-goers, as forums aren't a representative sample of the playerbase).  I'd understand why they did it.  It would be to correct a stupid act when they were new at this.  That said, I value honesty and commitment to promises far more than I do righting this wrong.  And I believe others agree with me here as well.

 

If we trust DE less, players won't give them as much money.  You don't invest in something you don't trust.  You don't give to someone you don't trust to not waste it.  You don't buy something that you fear will be free later.  Does that make sense?

 

Founders gear doesn't really mean much to anyone but selfish idiots.  Honest and trustworthiness are valued by the sane and the mature though.  I know you see releasing them as righting a wrong, but I'm telling you that more damage would be done by that than by doing nothing.

 

I personally see releasing Founders gear as a case of cutting the throat to cure the nosebleed and I believe I am sufficiently justified in my position.

 

 

Since you do not even like that frame, why do you even care whether other people get the chance to play with it? You do not? Good. There is no need for you to feel offended, or be upset about anything.

 

Additionally, your perception of DE being nice to newcomers and making this prime stuff available to everyone will improve, right?

The reason I'm upset by it is because I fear that it will damage the community's trust in DE.  I know it will make me trust them less and from the countless posts I've seen by others, I know I'm not alone in this.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by "will improve, right?"  I want DE to be nice to new people.  I just want them to keep their word.  I don't want anymore exclusive in-game items.  I wish they never existed in the first place.  I just see their removal as being more damaging than leaving them.

Edited April 1, 2014 by Volt_Cruelerz

[Volt_Cruelerz]

Translation - I have nothing to say, I'm a spoilt child and I want what I think is owed to me without doing anything for it. You need to face upto the facts, you will never have Excal Prime nor any of the other exclusives. That IS your original post. "all frames should be made available". Excal Prime etc is exclusive. Get over this fact and accept it. No matter how many toys you throw out of the pram, it will never come to DE changing their mind. Exclusives are neither childlike nor strawman, your arguments are strawman. You are not a founder

You don't have to be a founder to argue the point.  In terms of the arguments I've seen over the past year for releasing them, he has a much more coherent argument structure than usual.

 

He just sees the release of them as righting a wrong.  It would be.  It's just that there are repercussions that we want to avoid which is why we oppose it.

Edited April 1, 2014 by Volt_Cruelerz

[Volt_Cruelerz]

 

If he is not a founder then he has no say. He did not buy into the program, nor support DE at the start. There is no valid argument for releasing them. Fairness is just about the worst argument possible for ever saying "this should happen".

 

In essence, he wants something without doing anything for it. Spoilt child syndrome.

Consider his side of it though.  It sounds like you're over-valuing "pixels" (as he would say) and being selfish.  Why would a founder have any right to defend something so "silly?"

 

I disagree with him and believe he is failing to see the big picture, but I don't think his perspective is absurd.

[HAR1MAU]

Well, sorry that the ps4 got released after the founders program ended.

[Mainabi]

excalibur prime EXISTS on the ps4, he's there you just can't obtain him,

and if you're a founder a real founder not some ps4 founder since we pc players founded the ps4 version ;) (no problem was a pleasure) you will be able to migrate your existing account to the ps4 version thus carrying your xcal prime to ps4

[Danakar]

I'll just leave this here as I find it odd how some like to interpret the words 'which will never be available again!'

 

 

For me, 'never be available again' is not open to interpretation as it meant just that. If you wanted these exclusive items, you should have supported Warframe when the Founders program was running.

 

Just my opinion on the matter.

[(PSN)Seeker779]

Lets make it simple.. many say its a pc/founders exclusive, well let it stay on pc when you can migrate and see how pc people react.

When and if you can bring it over to ps4 people eill *@##$ even more.

[(PSN)PJZERO2]

Smh

 

excalibur prime EXISTS on the ps4, he's there you just can't obtain him,

and if you're a founder a real founder not some ps4 founder since we pc players founded the ps4 version ;) (no problem was a pleasure) you will be able to migrate your existing account to the ps4 version thus carrying your xcal prime to ps4

[TunaMayo]

Consider his side of it though.  It sounds like you're over-valuing "pixels" (as he would say) and being selfish.  Why would a founder have any right to defend something so "silly?"

 

I disagree with him and believe he is failing to see the big picture, but I don't think his perspective is absurd.

Just ignore the guy. This is a black and white situation, DE have stated that they will remain exclusive so there is no need to retaliate as there simply is no grey area.

[Volt_Cruelerz]

Just ignore the guy. This is a black and white situation, DE have stated that they will remain exclusive so there is no need to retaliate as there simply is no grey area.

I'm trying to explain it though :/

[Seasonsofclarity]

Seriously, why are people unable to understand such a simple thing as "will never be available again"?

 

Time-limited exclusives happen.  They happen in real life too.

 

Deal with it.

Edited April 2, 2014 by Seasonsofclarity

[existentialvoid]

Always a good discussion this - and an important one in light of the recent figures about how much WF has grown.

 

I have a fair number of DC/GM friends, and I remember asking them why these things were not available to the rest of us who missed it.  A lot of the answers here, about supporting the game early, to promises made and such come up.  But all of them see the problem with the Excalibur frame not being farm/trade-able. And that is the only problem.

 

The badge, scarf, and the DC spots are all really good things, more then good, they are amazing things. 

 

When the conversation continues to, well, what should 'we/founders' get after giving up a monopoly on a prime frame, I tell them they should get a "prime" bp that will let them build something that use used a lot, can be bought with plat/farmed for, but is expensive - like a prime forma/catalyst/reactor bp (that you don't need them anymore is besides the point actually.)

 

The point is this - there are very few warframes, and for a starter warframe to have a prime that cannot be worked for (primes are like a love/bling for the frame - not a more powerful version) is frankly shortsighted considering 1) the game is in beta, 2) the game has grown a lot. 

 

DE can say a big sorry by just changing the exclusivity of the prime (so founders still have the prime) and replacing it with a really good perk that gives no ingame advantage.

 

The scarf and DC spot and the badge and such is already massive (especially design council).

 

300 to 7 million man. . . . do the founders just want to play by themselves?

[ensignvidiot]

No

 

simple: Its Fraud

 

Some real thing that can cost DE several real amounts of money. If they themselves stated in the pitch that it will never be available again (much like they do now with certain Prime Access items) they are legally held accountable for those words. It would then turn into false advertising, fruad, and baiting and switching. 3 things that can not only kill Warframe, but DE.