Please Help With Laser Doors

[Kanaris]

Considering that the majority of the cameras are over or right beside doors, I fail to see how it could be any more obvious aside from straight up telling you how to play the game.

I have no idea why you assume people will 'never figure it out'. What you're telling me is that people won't actively try to solve a puzzle? Demonstrably false.

What you're describing is everything that's wrong with video games today. The player should not be devalued or underestimated that way. At no point should a video game developer assume the players have no idea what they're doing. This is interactive media and the 'audience' is intended to engage their brain, not read a technical order or an essay or even hear a speech.

It bloody well is handholding if you're walked through every single game mechanic step-by-step and it cheapens the experience, the satisfaction of achieving something on your own, of discovering something, and of making progress.

[Kerrus]

Honestly up until recently I had no idea cameras were involved at all. I though the doors had some sort of motion detector built into them, and if you stood still long enough they'd turn off.

And that seemed to work most of the time, although in retrospect it was probably because all the times I stood still I was out of camera sight.

Even after learning cameras controlled turret deployment, I didn't connect them to the doors- I still had to use superspeed or teleport to get through them, and even with that I ended up wounded on my &#! more times then I care to count.

The corpus reliance on automation in more than walkers is NOT obvious, but even a throw-away line by lotus would help immensely.

Something like "Be wary Tennou, Corpus eyes are always watching." that directs player attention to the Cameras would be a good start- you don't have to explain the rest of the association, because once players are aware those lights are *cameras* and not just.... lights, then they can make the logical jump the rest of the way.

[Aerensiniac]

thats very weird i thought it was time delay are the cameraes the turrents that fold back in or do they look diffrent

No. If the lasers are activated, then somebody in your party is standing in front of a camera.

Thats all there is to it.

That being said, lasers can become pretty annoying when you play with "less intellectual" people which not only wont shoot cameras, but refuse to do so even though you keep on spamming the chat about it.

[Kinkeh]

If you can't shoot out a stationary camera, I can't help you. And neither should the devs.

The issue here is that there's no in-game hint that the cameras are associated with the doors and the beginners end up baffled.

I learned about the camera thing from the forums. You shouldn't have to visit a game's forum to become familiar with an in-game mechanic.

Considering that the majority of the cameras are over or right beside doors, I fail to see how it could be any more obvious aside from straight up telling you how to play the game.

On your first encounter, a red blurry light on the ceiling is very far from being an obvious point of the territory to shoot at it.

Edited March 31, 2013 by Kinkeh

[Kanaris]

A green/red blurry light that makes a whole lot of noise you've never heard before. It also tracks side-to-side. It's a new variable in your environment that should be studied.

I agree that the first instinct probably isn't to shoot it; sure wasn't for me. Instead I simply avoided the cameras. Wasn't until I ran some missions with others I saw you could shoot it.

Edited March 31, 2013 by Kanaris

[Aggh]

I personally wouldn't see anything wrong with lotus explaining cameras on the first couple corpus missions. Especially if it would stop threads like these.

Ex, you when you activate a camera lotus says "You've activated their security systems, take out the cameras to disable the laser doors and security turrets."

They could also include that voice acting as part of the tutorial that you can disable in settings.

Edited March 31, 2013 by Aggh

[Zed0]

The cameras have a Blue/Red light and are located in the ceiling, mostly near the doors themselves.

Lasers only activate when the camera see's an intruder - either you or your teammate.

[Itchbay311]

Thank the stars forum goers are the minority because wow, half you people are elitist jerks in desperate need of... something other than gaming. Grow up.

"Shoot everything that blinks and makes noises" != smart mechanics either nor does it make you a "pro" player.

My biggest problem is that the laser bars are green. In the game, in life.. usually green = go. Green lights = go, green doors= go, green bars... = death. Counter-intuitive. Orange, red, muave, ANY color but green please.

This change would make people stop and be like "Hm.. ok I have to do something in order for the evil lasers to shut down". Solved.

[Cauldrath]

There are a few problems with discoverability with the cameras, though. I'll freely admit that the first time I encountered the laser doors I had no idea how they worked and finished the first level while thinking they were completely random.

1) In some areas, it's easily possible to pass cameras without them crossing your line of sight, such as the area that is a T junction with a raised platform on the opposite side from bottom of the T. If you are going out the door at the bottom of the T, the camera is located opposite of the door high on the wall, and you won't be looking at that wall if you are going directly to the door. If this room had 2 cameras, one at each corner on the same or opposite wall as the door, then you could see them out of the corner of your eye as you rounded the corner and also as you come up the ramp. There's also a lot of cameras that are on the wall above archways, which you'll never see if you walk under them. Putting those on the ceiling under the archway would help those instances. Later levels could have cameras that are hidden better, but the first few levels should avoid it.

2) Cameras should only affect doors that they are within line of sight of. There is literally no way that you can know what is happening if a teammate is in the next room, activating a camera that is turning on your door. If they can't see any doors from where they are, then they aren't going to know that is causing it either. Changing this will also help with the problem the doors were originally designed to address: people speeding through levels leaving their teammates behind.

3) Even once you know how the cameras work, the amount of bloom on them often obscures them completely, so it is difficult to tell which way they are pointing. If you don't know, it makes them just look more like lights than cameras. Their shape is also more like a brick than what you would expect from a camera. Redoing the effects and modelling to make it look more like a camera that more clearly has a direction it is pointing would mean that stealth gameplay around them could be more meaningful and make it easier for new players to recognize them. Just changing the light volumes on them to be cone-shaped would help immensely.

Edited March 31, 2013 by Cauldrath

[MJ12]

Considering that the majority of the cameras are over or right beside doors, I fail to see how it could be any more obvious aside from straight up telling you how to play the game.

Because it's not obvious for someone who isn't already used to it? It's only obvious in hindsight or if your initial encounter with them involves you noticing the camera and the doors turning on and off in synch with the camera, noticing the camera is shootable, and then putting this information together.

I have no idea why you assume people will 'never figure it out'. What you're telling me is that people won't actively try to solve a puzzle? Demonstrably false.

Human minds are extraordinarily good at making things up to fit preconcieved notions. If you actually read this thread you'll notice the OP refusing to believe the truth because he thought he had figured out how laser doors work. This is exactly what you're encouraging, people coming up with completely out-there ideas, spreading misinformation, and destroying the game.

What you're describing is everything that's wrong with video games today. The player should not be devalued or underestimated that way. At no point should a video game developer assume the players have no idea what they're doing. This is interactive media and the 'audience' is intended to engage their brain, not read a technical order or an essay or even hear a speech.

What I'm describing is everything that's right with video games today. They're more accessible, understand that gaming is a very rapidly-growing entertainment medium with plenty of new players coming in, and have plenty of technical elements that are unfamiliar to those new players. Gaming is a very technical field. That's why you can have 'powergamers' and such. Any game should do well to remember that because it's so technical that it has to follow the same rules any technical writing does.

Which is:

1. Assume your audience needs everything explained

2. Assume your audience is very dumb.

A game that does not do that risks losing massive amounts of accessibility for... no real reason.

It bloody well is handholding if you're walked through every single game mechanic step-by-step and it cheapens the experience, the satisfaction of achieving something on your own, of discovering something, and of making progress.

Ah yes, the satisfaction of discovering a core game mechanic. Why should we have a tutorial? Or even a list of controls? Why should anything be explained? We shouldn't have any explanations for powers or Warframe descriptions. You should have to figure those out on your own. We shouldn't have any stats for weapons. You should need to figure those out on your own. I'm going to quote ItchBay311 because he says about what my only response is to this deluded idea.

Thank the stars forum goers are the minority because wow, half you people are elitist jerks in desperate need of... something other than gaming. Grow up.

Anyways, even games with tons of 'discovery' inherent in them also tell you about their important core game mechanics. Because they're kind of important, you know.

Nobody's talking about explaining the sprint + slide + jump infinite fast movement combo or something.

[MushrooMars]

Just now

*joins game*

*looks for teammate*

*walks into room*

*no cameras, no laser door*

*goes through door*

*suddenly MOAs*

*back up*

*suddenly Lasers*

*instant death, no chance for revival*

It's the lamest mechanic ever. I can understand an airlock filled with death lasers like the one in Resident Evil, but this is just ridiculous. There's almost no warning if you have teammates that aren't RIGHT NEXT TO YOU EVERY SECOND OF THE MISSION.

[Kanaris]

Thank the stars forum goers are the minority because wow, half you people are elitist jerks in desperate need of... something other than gaming. Grow up.

"Shoot everything that blinks and makes noises" != smart mechanics either nor does it make you a "pro" player.

It's good to see you read the thread so you could make an informed opinion. Not.

I am by no means elitist, myself, I even mentioned how it stymied me at first, and I even said I didn't think to shoot them. But I figured out a way around them using an alternative method entirely; avoidance. Like, you know, a ninja.

I can't speak for others of course... but thankfully forum-goers are, indeed, the minority, because that also means that the laser doors are unlikely to be a real problem. It's a two way street, my friend.

Because it's not obvious for someone who isn't already used to it? It's only obvious in hindsight or if your initial encounter with them involves you noticing the camera and the doors turning on and off in synch with the camera, noticing the camera is shootable, and then putting this information together.

It is obvious if you're paying attention. Something I assumed you should be doing.

Human minds are extraordinarily good at making things up to fit preconcieved notions. If you actually read this thread you'll notice the OP refusing to believe the truth because he thought he had figured out how laser doors work. This is exactly what you're encouraging, people coming up with completely out-there ideas, spreading misinformation, and destroying the game.

You're attacking a straw man here. The vast majority of people try to solve problems when they encounter them, not give up.

What I'm describing is everything that's right with video games today. They're more accessible, understand that gaming is a very rapidly-growing entertainment medium with plenty of new players coming in, and have plenty of technical elements that are unfamiliar to those new players. Gaming is a very technical field. That's why you can have 'powergamers' and such. Any game should do well to remember that because it's so technical that it has to follow the same rules any technical writing does.

Which is:

1. Assume your audience needs everything explained

2. Assume your audience is very dumb.

A game that does not do that risks losing massive amounts of accessibility for... no real reason.

Just so we're clear, what you want: a gaming experience that is reduced for the lowest common denominator?

You want to be treated like you are 'very dumb'? That's interesting. I'm not usually one to stoop to ad hominem, but if the shoe fits...

Ah yes, the satisfaction of discovering a core game mechanic. Why should we have a tutorial? Or even a list of controls? Why should anything be explained? We shouldn't have any explanations for powers or Warframe descriptions. You should have to figure those out on your own. We shouldn't have any stats for weapons. You should need to figure those out on your own. I'm going to quote ItchBay311 because he says about what my only response is to this deluded idea.

The laser door mechanic is nothing like the basic controls. Telling you how to win is ridiculous but unfortunately out of control in the current gaming market because people have been trained to turn off their brains.

What about the rooms you fall into from the vents above? How long did it take you to learn to wall run vertically? It wasn't explained to you in-game. What about shooting the Ancients in the lower leg? How long did it take you to learn to do that? It also wasn't explained. I take it - if you figured these things out for yourself - you took no enjoyment in your discovery and no pleasure to accomplishing something. But I imagine you come by all your information on the forums or the wiki, which is fine.

However, a video game is not a movie. You're not meant to impressed simply by the graphics but by the ingenuity there-in and solving puzzles. If I tell you a plot point you're meant to come to on your own for a movie or novel you're enjoying, how would you feel?

I'm sure you'll say you 'wouldn't care' simply to prop up your argument, or maybe you don't care, because you don't play games to be challenged. That's fine, we all play games for different reasons, I don't begrudge anyone who wants to play games for action or graphics or story.

I'm simply saying that catering to every demographic is impossible. Fortunately, for now at least, it would appear that Warframe wants to cater to my sort of demographic.

Anyways, even games with tons of 'discovery' inherent in them also tell you about their important core game mechanics. Because they're kind of important, you know.

As I've already illustrated above, it's not a 'core game mechanic'. A game mechanic, to be sure, but not central to the game.

There's almost no warning if you have teammates that aren't RIGHT NEXT TO YOU EVERY SECOND OF THE MISSION.

It's essentially to remind you that, when playing in a group online, the group should at best stick together, or at worst communicate (and listen). I know some people don't but the onus is on them, not the devs, to play the game.

Edited March 31, 2013 by Kanaris

[Aggh]

Just now

*joins game*

*looks for teammate*

*walks into room*

*no cameras, no laser door*

*goes through door*

*suddenly MOAs*

*back up*

*suddenly Lasers*

*instant death, no chance for revival*

It's the lamest mechanic ever. I can understand an airlock filled with death lasers like the one in Resident Evil, but this is just ridiculous. There's almost no warning if you have teammates that aren't RIGHT NEXT TO YOU EVERY SECOND OF THE MISSION.

I agree that it shoud be explained better, but you'd think that people would learn to stop sprinting in to doors. If I think that a camera might have been set off, I just stop just short of walking through the door to let it open and make sure the laser doors aren't activated. Why keep touching the fire after it's burned you?

Edited April 1, 2013 by Aggh

[Itchbay311]

As I've already illustrated above, it's not a 'core game mechanic'. A game mechanic, to be sure, but not central to the game.

Not central to the game? What game are you playing? A mechanic that, if not understood, can literally shut down a map, is considered "core" and a "how to" should be in a tutorial somewhere. This isn't "How to kill a boss" or anything close to a "strategy" as you imply it.

Although elequently, you still implied that the people who didn't or couldn't figure it out, shouldn't be playing this game. You're pseudo-humble approach makes you a nicer type of elitist, but elitist still.

Bottom line: It's a S#&$ty mechanic to halt progression, kill people, and push them towards paying $$ for more lives. And change the bars to a red color FFS.

[Ptosis]

Not remove, but Lotus warning about them ( the cameras ) in the start of the mission would help new players understand the mechanic better.

[Ced23Ric]

The cameras are, if anything, an abstract intelligence test. If dying once to laser doors didn't teach a lesson, and dying again didn't, then the blame is on you. Seriously. The general connection: CORPUS LEVEL = LASER DOORS = CAUTIOUS PROGRESSION is easy as pie. Misconstrueing a malicious tactic to force anyone to buy revives is probably the most stupid argument one could come up with.

That is not elitist. That is a truth of life. If an action produces harm and you repeat it, you are deliberately not learning. You have cause and effect, putting that together is cognitive bike riding with training wheels and someone walking next to you.

This might help, cameras in detail:

[fauxhb]

these are the same doors that start appearing after finishing Mercury?

one amazingly great tactic i found out to bypass em. SHIFT+SPACE. works everytime. roll works 50/50, slide 75/25. dunno if it's because of the latency, necause i sometimes get caught and pulled back after i'm already on the other side.

[Itchbay311]

The cameras are, if anything, an abstract intelligence test. If dying once to laser doors didn't teach a lesson, and dying again didn't, then the blame is on you. Seriously. The general connection: CORPUS LEVEL = LASER DOORS = CAUTIOUS PROGRESSION is easy as pie. Misconstrueing a malicious tactic to force anyone to buy revives is probably the most stupid argument one could come up with.

That is not elitist. That is a truth of life. If an action produces harm and you repeat it, you are deliberately not learning. You have cause and effect, putting that together is cognitive bike riding with training wheels and someone walking next to you.

This might help, cameras in detail:

Yes but, what about the laser walls that you're not tripping? The camera is in the next room being tripped by the idiot who ran ahead popping all the lockers and, currently, eggs. Or whatever. You don't see lasers or cameras so you run through, just as the #$&(% in the next room runs by the camera and poof, your dead.

Odds of it happening? Answer: It's the ONLY reason I die and, for the past week, I've lost all 4 revives every gdmn day. Mainly because the laser walls KO me and, because they're still up, my team can't get to me or they die via laser wall THE EXACT SAME WAY.

There's better ways to build a railroad and I stand by my opinion of it being a sh!tty mechanic only due to the lethality of them. If they only wiped shields and knocked you down.. I'd be a bit more inclined to not complain about them.

Encrypted terminals and "cooperative unlocker" doors are just fine. More like that please.

[Kanaris]

But that's not a game mechanic causing you to die, Itchbay311. It's your team mates that are letting you down.

EDIT 1: I missed this before...

Not central to the game? What game are you playing? A mechanic that, if not understood, can literally shut down a map, is considered "core" and a "how to" should be in a tutorial somewhere. This isn't "How to kill a boss" or anything close to a "strategy" as you imply it.

Although elequently, you still implied that the people who didn't or couldn't figure it out, shouldn't be playing this game. You're pseudo-humble approach makes you a nicer type of elitist, but elitist still.

It's a mechanic that anyone with a brain can figure out on their own. I'm sorry but that's a fact. Running into the laser wall and deciding 'there's no way through here, I can't finish the level' is just inane. It doesn't make any sense.

Let me ask you something: why do you want to be prompted on how to do everything? If someone sits beside you and tells you how to do everything, is that really fun for you? Why isn't simply playing the game enough?

It's not elitist of me at all to expect people to engage their brains and do a little problem solving that requires only a minute or two of study in-game. In fact, you should take that as a compliment: the devs expect you to be able to think for yourself.

That is a rare commodity in games these days.

EDIT 2: Hell, these are the kinds of things mice in labaratories can figure out.

Edited April 1, 2013 by Kanaris

[Vilmalith]

I didn't read all 3 pages, being lazy today. In any case, the thing with the laser doors and such is that there seems to be an area of effect. So if you are playing with other idiots that don't understand the cameras, they could be blocking you in rooms a bit away from the camera that is spotting them. And say, they just keep running from room to room using slide or a power to get through the laser door, and setting off all the camera's on the way.... it feels like you're stuck in that room for ever.

*Hint there, slide seems to get you under the laser door.

[Kanaris]

Exactly NeonFlak but I don't see it as a bad thing. A team should be sticking together, working together.

If you want to mad dash to the end play solo or in a private game, otherwise you're just punishing your erstwhile team mates.

[Cauldrath]

Exactly NeonFlak but I don't see it as a bad thing. A team should be sticking together, working together.

If you want to mad dash to the end play solo or in a private game, otherwise you're just punishing your erstwhile team mates.

The problem is that these people exist in online games and might not even realize that they are negatively affecting you, because they aren't in a place where the laser doors are blocking them.

Saying that your team needs better teamwork isn't a good option when PUGs without any chat are so common. Yes, some teamwork is expected, but team-based learning is probably expecting too much, especially when this isn't a puzzle game and this is literally the only thing in the game that requires people with different sets of information to put them together.

[Kanaris]

But that's still not a flaw inherent to the game design. It's a flaw inherent in the player base.

[Mithie]

I like laser doors as a mechanic, I really do. It's an interesting obstacle to overcome, especially for those who like running full speed ahed.

... but it needs a lot of improvement from a mechanics perspective.

1. Right now, there's only a set number of possible camera layouts that don't really change. After going through enough of these rooms, you immeidately know where to shoot for the cameras.Their locations need to be random (but obviously within line of sight to the player triggering them).

2. Give players an alternate way of crossing them. Fix the slide-melee exploit but allow players to either hack a very difficult node or ammo dump a very robust control panel (if they can't find the camera).

[MJ12]

It is obvious if you're paying attention. Something I assumed you should be doing.

Yes, and I was paying attention and never actually put together "cameras activate laser doors" until I asked the forum. I assumed you were supposed to jump-slide under them because that was what worked some of the time. The people I played with at that time also thought the same thing.

This is what happens when you fail to explain a core game mechanic. People get the wrong idea and then proceed to spend their time acting as if that wrong idea is correct. This is a bad thing.

You're attacking a straw man here. The vast majority of people try to solve problems when they encounter them, not give up.

Yes, and then they do so, and they come to an entirely different conclusion. And then they assume they have to jump-slide under them or something and when that bugs out (because it's not intended) they make angry posts on forums and give the game undeserved bad press. All of this could be prevented by explaining this basic mechanic, but you insist people shouldn't because that'd be 'hand-holding'.

Just so we're clear, what you want: a gaming experience that is reduced for the lowest common denominator?

You want to be treated like you are 'very dumb'? That's interesting. I'm not usually one to stoop to ad hominem, but if the shoe fits...

Oh yes, because 'explaining everything necessary for progress' is 'reduced for the lowest common denominator' right? I'm amazed. I want the game to not be made by condescending f**ktards who think that acknowledging that plenty of their audience aren't going to be geniuses or even of average intelligence (this is pretty much by definition) is blasphemy. Stroking their elitist hate-boner just to negatively impact accessibility is terrible design. I think games should follow the same rules as technical writing, which you have, of course, failed to comprehend (who's the dumb one here again?).

Notice that I said technical writing. Technical writing is often about extremely esoteric subjects. Say I'm back in my game theory class again. I am expected to be able to talk about the permutations of coalitional game theory and describe this to a moron. This is a very complex, detailed subject. I guess in Kanaris-world this means that doing so turns it into "1+1 = 2" instead of meaning that I just go over everything important to my thesis and everything important for an understanding of my paper. The same thing with games. Everything important should be told to you up-front. If you can't beat the game without knowing it they should tell you. This is the entire point of comparing game tutorials to technical writing.

Here's something that might blow your mind: Games don't have to follow a unified set of physical rules. In some games you can shoot cameras. In others you can't. In yet others you can but it's a bad idea. In some games cameras turn on security. In some games shooting cameras is needed to progress. In some games cameras cause alarms and spawn goons. This is not exactly 'shoot a red barrel to blow things up' territory here. There's no unified camera mechanic in videogames.

The laser door mechanic is nothing like the basic controls. Telling you how to win is ridiculous but unfortunately out of control in the current gaming market because people have been trained to turn off their brains.

What about the rooms you fall into from the vents above? How long did it take you to learn to wall run vertically? It wasn't explained to you in-game. What about shooting the Ancients in the lower leg? How long did it take you to learn to do that? It also wasn't explained. I take it - if you figured these things out for yourself - you took no enjoyment in your discovery and no pleasure to accomplishing something. But I imagine you come by all your information on the forums or the wiki, which is fine.

Good job at pointing out even more problems with the game-i.e. there are plenty of situations where you literally can't progress unless you luck onto the solution. And shooting the Ancients in the lower leg isn't even close to the same thing, because if you shoot an Ancient in the face a bunch they still die. If you can't figure out how to deal with a laser door or do a vertical wallrun you can't progress in the game. It's just the same with basic controls. If you don't know how to move or shoot you can't play the game. It's the exact same thing with laser doors because if you don't know how to deal with them you... can't play the game! I guess you could play Grineer and Infestation missions except that's at least 1/3rd of the game content walled off just because you were elitists who didn't want to explain something important.

Oh, and Grineer/Infestation missions can have required wallrun sections. So more than 1/3rd. Please tell me why this is good game design when you could have a bit in the tutorial to tell you 'shoot the cameras to turn off local security such as laser barriers' and if you get stuck long enough in one area with laser doors Lotus could kindly mark the offending camera/and or tell you? That'd be unobtrusive. It'd only help people who got stuck. How does it cause problems for you besides not allowing you to be an elitist about it?

I'm not averse to adding an option to disable tutorial prompts or something for people like you. What I don't want is the game telling me "nope, you figure it out", not giving me any clues, and then people getting smug when they act like this is some sort of intelligence test. It's not. It's a luck test, because it's asking you "do you have the same way of thinking as the game designers yes/no"? It's the same kind of 'puzzle' that was so popular in the 1990s.

Oh but of course, you're going to argue that it's actually simple. If it's simple and so obvious, telling people how to do it isn't a problem since it doesn't add more 'skill' to the game. If it's not simple or obvious it should be explained. So let me ask you, Kanaris. Are you wrong because it's actually not that easy to figure out? Or are you wrong because it's actually not adding 'skill' and the 'thrill of discovery' to the game, just frustration for the people who didn't figure it out because their minds aren't wired the same way as the devs and thus they get frustrated? This is a very easy question. There are only two choices. You can either be wrong, or wrong. Which one are you?

However, a video game is not a movie. You're not meant to impressed simply by the graphics but by the ingenuity there-in and solving puzzles. If I tell you a plot point you're meant to come to on your own for a movie or novel you're enjoying, how would you feel?

I'm sure you'll say you 'wouldn't care' simply to prop up your argument, or maybe you don't care, because you don't play games to be challenged. That's fine, we all play games for different reasons, I don't begrudge anyone who wants to play games for action or graphics or story.

I'm simply saying that catering to every demographic is impossible. Fortunately, for now at least, it would appear that Warframe wants to cater to my sort of demographic.

Okay, let's take movies like Black Hawk Down or Inception or hell, even Alien. They have visceral scenes so you can enjoy them on that basic level. You can enjoy Inception as a thriller, Black Hawk Down as an action movie, or Alien as a horror movie. You can dig deeper if you want, but you can enjoy them as simple mindless popcorn if you so choose. Same with any good novel. They can be enjoyed as mindless popcorn. The deeper stuff is there if you want to delve into it, but you don't have to.

Is it so horrid that a game would explain mechanics necessary to progression so people can enjoy it as mindless fun if they want to, and they can delve into power-gaming (not that there are many advanced mechanics in Warframe yet) if they so desire? Is this really something you want to argue against? Because it makes you look really silly.

As I've already illustrated above, it's not a 'core game mechanic'. A game mechanic, to be sure, but not central to the game.

Assume you don't know how to get past laser doors. How do you progress in Corpus missions? Oh right, you can't. This is the very definition of a core game mechanic. One that, if you do not know, you cannot progress in the game period. We're not talking about dodge offsets or animation canceling here. We're not talking about enemy weakpoints or specific enemy attacks which can be punished or anything high-level. We are talking about a mechanic that if you don't understand will make it impossible to play the game.

Edited April 1, 2013 by MJ12