So, New Melee Combat...

[Thaumatos]

Take-aways from devstream 26:

• It took Scott 3-4 hits to kill a level 1 Grineer.
• Cronus had almost no increase in damage.
• We were told Melee 2.0 was going to be viable and increase melee damage.

 

 

Discuss...

[MIRROR_ell]

1) The Cronus was unmodded.

2) The Cronus was unmodded.

3) The increase in damage comes from tying the combo counter together. If 1.5x, 2.0x, etc. melee damage multipliers are not boosts, no one will know what damage boosts are.

[--H--Highperius]

This thread is pointless. 
As for me, I was highly satisfied with the melee footage shown in devstream 26.

[Fundance]

You forgot to point out the way parrying reflected damage, procced an execute, the way mobility had increased substantially while using a melee weapon, the bonus from combo strikes and the improved crowd control utility that came with combos and the way an unmodded weapon was able to effectively stunlock a high level armored enemy.

 

Typical, only thinking about the DPS.

Edited April 5, 2014 by Fundance

[Thaumatos]

1) The Cronus was unmodded.

2) The Cronus was unmodded.

3) The increase in damage comes from tying the combo counter together. If 1.5x, 2.0x, etc. melee damage multipliers are not boosts, no one will know what damage boosts are.

 

1) Melee damage was to be buffed

2) Melee damage was to be buffed

3) Who cares when everyone else will just shoot it dead before you get there.

 

 

You're not using that big, sexy human brain of yours...you're too mesmerized by the combo system.

 

Take a step back and think.

 

You forgot to point out the way parrying reflected damage, procced an execute, the way mobility had increased substantially while using a melee weapon, the bonus from combo strikes and the improved crowd control utility that came with combos and the way an unmodded weapon was able to effectively stunlock a high level armored enemy.

 

Typical, only thinking about the DPS.

First of all:  inb4 complaining about melee damage.

 

Well...that's about all I've got for you actually...

[Rosash]

Not to ruin this for the majority that took this to the next level but Thaumatos has a point

[Thaumatos]

Not to ruin this for the majority that took this to the next level but Thaumatos has a point

I like you.  Can I keep you?

 

Don't get me wrong guys...the combo system looks fan-fkn-tastical....but I still don't see any reason to beat stuff up when I can just shoot/blast/1-4 the crap out of it.

[FoxFX]

I like you.  Can I keep you?

 

Don't get me wrong guys...the combo system looks fan-fkn-tastical....but I still don't see any reason to beat stuff up when I can just shoot/blast/1-4 the crap out of it.

 

There is a reason to consider using melee weapons. With this new Melee 2.0 system coming, DE is most likely going to add/revamp enemies that have ways to make shooting and blasting not so possible. We have seen bosses use the abilities of our Warframes from time to time. Just imagine a boss like a revamped Tyl Regor that is capable of using Radial Disarm or a boss that has some shield ability that can deflect bullets back to us.

 

Keep the option of using melee weapons, we may never know in the future if they will be vital to fights later. After all, I a long time ago felt Bows would be overshadowed by weapons like Soma back in U11 or so, but a new updates later...

[MoyuTheTrinity]

they said 5/10/15 hits = combo for more damage  3-4 hits is not gona get the bonus damage

 

its ment to keep hitting things till you get your combo up high enough i herd like a 3-5 second time limet between hits

[Thaumatos]

they said 5/10/15 hits = combo for more damage  3-4 hits is not gona get the bonus damage

 

its ment to keep hitting things till you get your combo up high enough i herd like a 3-5 second time limet between hits

5/10/15

 

That's great.

 

How many shots does it take me to kill a level 1 enemy with an unmodded Braton again?  2?

 

You people aren't using your heads...and it makes me sad. :(

[MoyuTheTrinity]

5/10/15

 

That's great.

 

How many shots does it take me to kill a level 1 enemy with an unmodded Braton again?  2?

 

You people aren't using your heads...and it makes me sad. :(

 

you dont udnerstand the snowball effect with enough skill you can start to one shot them if you get the combo high enough... 5/10/15 was jsut the examples stev gave they never said it had a limit just incraments of 5

[Thaumatos]

There is a reason to consider using melee weapons. With this new Melee 2.0 system coming, DE is most likely going to add/revamp enemies that have ways to make shooting and blasting not so possible. We have seen bosses use the abilities of our Warframes from time to time. Just imagine a boss like a revamped Tyl Regor that is capable of using Radial Disarm or a boss that has some shield ability that can deflect bullets back to us.

 

Keep the option of using melee weapons, we may never know in the future if they will be vital to fights later. After all, I a long time ago felt Bows would be overshadowed by weapons like Soma back in U11 or so, but a new updates later...

If they were going to add or re-vamp enemies, they would have done it in the past month

.

 

They've spent all their time making combos look awesome.  And while they do, indeed, look friggin crazy awesome, they don't serve the purpose of killing the enemy fast enough.

 

While you're solo?  Sure.  Kill the guy without using ammo.  Great.

 

While you're with a few others?  I could see it now:

 

Melee Tenno: "YEaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhh yah yah yah yah yah yah yaaaaaaaah!"

Ranged Tenno: "What are you doing?"

Melee Tenno: "I'm killing the target...what are YOU doing?"

Ranged Tenno: "He's been dead from my bullet for the past minute....I've just been watching you make an &#! of yourself."

Melee Tenno:  "Well yeah...but at least I look good doing nothing...you're just standing there!"

Ranged Tenno: "Point taken...lets go home."

[Thaumatos]

you dont udnerstand the snowball effect with enough skill you can start to one shot them if you get the combo high enough... 5/10/15 was jsut the examples stev gave they never said it had a limit just incraments of 5

Wow.  You don't understand the combo system at all.

 

You don't get to 'save up' hits.  What you do is what you do...then you move on.

 

Who even cares when I equip a 'punch through' mod and just kill all your targets in one shot?

 

What are you going to do then?

 

None of you are thinking. *sigh*

 

It's okay though...you'lll get there next week when others refuse to let you melee things.

Edited April 5, 2014 by Thaumatos

[MoyuTheTrinity]

Wow.  You don't understand the combo system at all.

 

You don't get to 'save up' hits.  What you do is what you do...then you move on.

 

There's no "I did 10 hits and now I'm gonna nuke this guy" .... who thinks like that?  Who gets that out of devstream 26 at all?

 

combo system has a durration steve said so it will refresh the timer every hit last for 3-5 seconds before the combo ends so you have 5ish seconds to hit something again to restart the timer keeping the combo

 

You clearly only want to find flaws but in your haste you neglected to get the whole story

 

Edit: They probably wont pull something crappy like you lose your combo if you miss so its all good bro if you run fast enough you can keep the combo aslong as there isnt a nova in the room or some junk

Edited April 5, 2014 by MoyuTheMedic

[Thaumatos]

combo system has a durration steve said so it will refresh the timer every hit last for 3-5 seconds before the combo ends so you have 5ish seconds to hit something again to restart the timer keeping the combo

 

You clearly only want to find flaws but in your haste you neglected to get the whole story

 

Edit: They probably wont bull something crappy like you lose your combo if you miss so its all good bro if you run fast enough you can keep the combo aslong as there isnt a nova in the room or some junk

I deleted that part because it sounded too harsh...

 

Anyway, no, you've got 5 seconds.  That's awesome.  Take the time to realize that in 5 seconds I could kill a large amount of heavy gunners in just a few shots while you're over there combo-ing one.

 

There's no point to this whole system without a damage increase.

 

Scott said people could do an entire mission with their melee weapon.  AWESOME!  ... I could already do that!  Where did anyone ever say they couldn't?

 

I'm not awesome.  I"m not some sort of gaming god...clearly!  At best most people would call me a complete scrub.  That's fine.  I don't care.  I'm just saying that without a damage increase to melee, you're just making a system that's ultimately worthless when compared to other weaponry.

 

Edit:

 

I'm going to get tuna so don't be surprised if I don't respond right away anymore. :)

Edited April 5, 2014 by Thaumatos

[sickness24]

i understand Thaumatos's "issue" with the melee system. its the same issue we have today where bringing a knife to a gun fight doesnt really favor the knife but at least with the newer system its more of an option. It is however going to make the harvester escape mission beginning (no powers/weapons) slightly less tedious to do if your punches and kicks are actually responded to in stead of bareley noticed as tickles

 

 

 

 

[Lorane_Airwing]

Edit: They probably wont pull something crappy like you lose your combo if you miss so its all good bro if you run fast enough you can keep the combo aslong as there isnt a nova in the room or some junk

 

Admittedly that last point there goes hand in hand with what Thaumatos is saying, heck why even use guns when nova and the like are much more effective at killing than hacking away at one target at a time. Re-watching the combo part of the devstream the system at least counts up on each hit and not kills. Though this means losing a combo (likely because of a nova/rhino/ember/insert room nuking ability here ) is probably going to be very frustrating.

[MoyuTheTrinity]

I deleted that part because it sounded too harsh...

 

Anyway, no, you've got 5 seconds.  That's awesome.  Take the time to realize that in 5 seconds I could kill a large amount of heavy gunners in just a few shots while you're over there combo-ing one.

 

There's no point to this whole system without a damage increase.

 

Scott said people could do an entire mission with their melee weapon.  AWESOME!  ... I could already do that!  Where did anyone ever say they couldn't?

 

I'm not awesome.  I"m not some sort of gaming god...clearly!  At best most people would call me a complete scrub.  That's fine.  I don't care.  I'm just saying that without a damage increase to melee, you're just making a system that's ultimately worthless when compared to other weaponry.

From the information they have given I could see myself takign advantage of most of it in how I play it is literaly the melee system we have now + all this other stuff we can still swing the damn sword for normal and charge attacks with the stats they currently have or press the buttons in the right order and build hits  with muli-hit animations

 

the only thing I have doubts about is hopefuly the combos hit everything in the way not just the enemy you are attacking  (ash's ulty is a good example of what i hope does not happen) that is a propper flaw that might happen what you are complaining about is extra damage tacked on to a system if you work alittle harder woo hoo :/ some of us dont care about teh soma I prefer a gun with a better more balanced skill in = power out the soma is more like skill in <<< power out and now we have the boltor wich does even more damage without the crit hit mod being nessisary

 

Edit: the melee combat we have now is far weaker and less effective then what is been told to us everythign told to us is stuff you dont have to do if you never switch to that sword you will be playing the melee just like melee 1.0

this has a damage increase that will LITERALY still work on the old way wich builds in multiples itf it atleast gets to x2 damage in 15-20 hits and scales indefenetly I could see it being completly broken in survival

when your gun starts to take 2 seconds or so to kill somethign the sword would eventualy beable to ONE SHOT and keep geting damage just think about it

Edited April 5, 2014 by MoyuTheMedic

[Maljas23]

OP, I suggest you take the "Wait and see" approach to this. If you watched the Livestream, it was said countless times that what they were showing off wasn't complete. This included the balance pass that was talked about oh so much.

 

Be patient.

[FoxFX]

OP, I suggest you take the "Wait and see" approach to this. If you watched the Livestream, it was said countless times that what they were showing off wasn't complete. This included the balance pass that was talked about oh so much.

 

Be patient.

Agreed to this guy. Don't shout it if you haven't tried it.

[Warriorrogue]

OP, I suggest you take the "Wait and see" approach to this. If you watched the Livestream, it was said countless times that what they were showing off wasn't complete. This included the balance pass that was talked about oh so much.

 

Be patient.

Yup.

You have had a small view of it, and have now dismissed it as useless

Let people try it first.

Let alone that not everyone wants to melee. Some want range, some want melee.

You seem like more of a gun person.

Edited April 5, 2014 by Warriorrogue

[Onae]

The cronus does 10 damage a normal hit to level 1 grineer when unmodded, it did 40-90 in this one

[Varzy]

I can see your concerns, and I think there's something valid in them, but not in the TTK -- rather, I'm worried that the time it takes to lead up to a high melee damage rate will lead to melee players being slaughtered by other enemies around them.

 

I mean, we saw the dev stream, he died several times will showing how it worked. Maybe it'll be more effective with a modded weapon, but right now the moment you stop parrying in order to attack an enemy, you seem to open yourself up to all the other enemies around you. We need to see if we can typically do enough damage to kill an enemy before our shields drop so we can parry, and also investigate what options are there with the channeling mechanic (lifesteal might end up essential, though I'm thrilled they're finally including that kind of mechanic).

[Batwing]

Might want to turn down the pompousness of your responses just a suggestion.

I see your point in that they melee doesn't do as much as a gun. It hasn't even been released I doubt any of the weapons they used were modded.Not to mention did they not say that they made it to ceres or some end planet with only the skana ? Yeah I'd say that's a HUGE improvement.

 

If they buffed the melee weapons too much then we wouldn't be able to make a full combo and then we'd 1 shot everything, and to me that's REALLY boring (for melee at least).

 

And they mentioned already having certain enemies that you have to actually dual with your melee.And people might be tired of using guns, I kind of am the new system looks viable to the point where I'd like to try going through all the planets with only a sword hell maybe even the ceramic dagger.

 

It is viable and they did buff the weapons clearly, but if you want a sword to do what your guns can do, melee would be boring as hell.

[ExBlaine]

The core of these threads always seems to be the same: If I can't play it with some random people, who have no idea how I would like to play, it's inherently broken.

Like, seriously, if you are concerned about some Vanguard-Soma Rhino or Mspammic Nova ruining your new melee fun, why don't you search for a group that does melee runs?

Why not search for a damn clan while your at it so you can find people to organize groups to play the way you'd like?

Is random online play really the go-to in this game? All it does is to bring the whiners and doom-sayers to the forums.

I'm sure you will find plenty of people that would like to do swordplay missions with you, if Melee 2.0 delivers and from what I've seen it will do so for me.