I Wouldnt Care If It Were Only Cosmetic.....

[SolidSp33d]

You really shouldn't assume I didn't read the OP.

 

It isn't exactly better to have read the OP and still now know where he's coming from.

[DirkDeadeye]

Are you kidding? 10 people on a port is a _ton_ trust me, I'm a developer myself. 90% of modern games is assets and DE has many more asset people who are ostensibly on the "PC" team.

 

If that 10 people is 3 developers, 6 QA and 1 Sony liaison, that is IMHO better than most gaming companies.

 

They automate QA..

 

Yeah.

 

Also, S#&$ has to go through cert to be pushed through an update. And they have to make sure it's right, the first time, hopefully. Cause Sony isn't gonna let you just update left and right, cause if games were handled that way i'd assume we'd have a lot of bricked consoles.

Edited April 19, 2014 by DirkDeadeye

[SCP-10912]

Actually, he/she seems to be a PS4 player. The fact that he/she is using a PC forum account means little. The general context of his/her posts supports this assumption.

Please do not act as though I'm trying to fuel a console v. PC war, because I'm not. I'm just pointing out the obvious. If you can't take the wait, maybe you shouldn't have chosen the console version. No, the you in that sentence was not directed at you.

Their is no hassle in building a PC, as there are people and sites that will do the building for you. He/she could also just buy a pre-built. PC maintenance is minimal. It is practically the same as maintaining a console. Yes, there are plenty of reasons people will give. But most of those reasons don't make sense and/or are made from a position of ignorance.

All I'm saying is: "If you can't take the [insert issue with console version here], maybe you shouldn't have chosen the console version."

No, I'm saying that you should have considered the cons that would come with going the console version route when the console version is not the main version. A consumer should always weigh the pros and cons before making a decision. I would assume that you would have done that to begin with. But if you're complaining about update speeds on the console port of a PC game I can do nothing but believe you didn't spend enough time weighing the pros and cons.

I don't remember saying or implying that I felt superior to PS4 warframe players. That's an assumption on your part. I didn't even (in this thread) make a 'master race' joke.

In direct reply to "they have kept a massive wedge between us, with update frequency, content and overall caring about the people's opinions."

-Please do not start that stuff. DE can't update the PS4 version as rapidly as the PC version. That isn't their fault. No, they shouldn't hold off on updating the PC version until after they are sure that the updates can launch simultaneously (I've seen this suggested by PS4 players).

-You guys end up getting all the same content we got from the update that you guys started at forward. It just takes time.

-What is this bit about opinions referring to?

You need to calm your persecution complex.

You really shouldn't assume I didn't read the OP.

They can update PS4 as fast, they simply refuse to do so to satisfy the PC users who would raise a massive ruckus because they don't get their weekly update. A simple solution would be to freeze PC for 2-3 weeks, give the PS4 porting crew all the data they need to bring PS4 up to date, then once its past cert give the content to both. Then once they're in sync push the data to the porters first so that they can get it to cert, and release it simultaneously. This might make it so you only get 1 update every two weeks, but it will bridge the gap, and maybe when Sony is getting a new thing to cert so often they'll realize they can't keep it up and allow DE to push updates through when they can.

It seems they try way to hard to appease the PC players, instead of bridging the gap and making the community one like they say it already is.

EDIT: Yeah I'm a PS4 player, I play PC a little because I wanted to be able to try out the things we haven't gotten yet. Although I probably won't be doing that much, since mouse and keyboard sucks to me, and starting from scratch again is driving me insane.

Edited April 19, 2014 by SCP-10912

[SquirmyBurrito]

It isn't exactly better to have read the OP and still now know where he's coming from.

 

Now you're assuming that my not agreeing with OP is the same as not understanding where he's coming from. I understand how it feels to be irritated over something I can't possibly control. Guess what? I got over it and didn't vent on a forum full of people who are highly likely to disagree with me. OP complains about update speed when that is not entirely DE's fault.

 

They can update PS4 as fast, they simply refuse to do so to satisfy the PC users who would raise a massive ruckus because they don't get their weekly update. A simple solution would be to freeze PC for 2-3 weeks, give the PS4 porting crew all the data they need to bring PS4 up to date, then once its past cert give the content to both. Then once they're in sync push the data to the porters first so that they can get it to cert, and release it simultaneously. This might make it so you only get 1 update every two weeks, but it will bridge the gap, and maybe when Sony is getting a new thing to cert so often they'll realize they can't keep it up and allow DE to push updates through when they can.

It seems they try way to hard to appease the PC players, instead of bridging the gap and making the community one like they day it already is.

 

No, they can't. PC players could care less how fast the PS4 gets updates as long as them getting updates does not negatively impact us.

 

Why should we be forced to wait so that you guys can catch up for a week or two before inevitably falling behind again because things have to get past cert? No, I completely disagree with this. Ideas like this are what causes PC gamers to often state that console gaming holds us back. 

 

That is a terrible idea and I will not hold my tongue on this. It is this mentality that sours PC and Console player relationships. You are not unique in this thought process, and that is a big problem. Punishing PC gamers will not unite the community.

[SCP-10912]

Now you're assuming that my not agreeing with OP is the same as not understanding where he's coming from. I understand how it feels to be irritated over something I can't possibly control. Guess what? I got over it and didn't vent on a forum full of people who are highly likely to disagree with me. OP complains about update speed when that is not entirely DE's fault.

No, they can't. PC players could care less how fast the PS4 gets updates as long as them getting updates does not negatively impact us.

Why should we be forced to wait so that you guys can catch up for a week or two before inevitably falling behind again because things have to get past cert? No, I completely disagree with this. Ideas like this are what causes PC gamers to often state that console gaming holds us back.

That is a terrible idea and I will not hold my tongue on this. It is this mentality that sours PC and Console player relationships. You are not unique in this thought process, and that is a big problem. Punishing PC gamers will not unite the community.

If waiting one extra week is that much of a punishment than I'd recommend reevaluating your priorities. DE has had account migration and cross play in mind from day one, and that will NEVER happen if PS4 continues to be left behind. If they were to take two weeks for the updates they currently release instead of one, they would be able to keep us both in sync. Because if the content only took a week to get set up, then they have a week to get it to cert, all the while they can be working on the PC side of the next update, then send that to the PS4 crew once the last one hits both. This way they can stay in sync, and cross-play/account migration comes closer to being a reality.

Edited April 19, 2014 by SCP-10912

[Ionus]

If waiting one extra week is that much of a punishment than I'd recommend reevaluating your priorities. DE has had account migration and cross play in mind from day one, and that will NEVER happen if PS4 continues to be left behind. If they were to take two weeks for the updates they currently release instead of one, they would be able to keep us both in sync. Because if the content only took a week to get set up, then they have a week to get it to cert, all the while they can be working on the PC side of the next update, then send that to the PS4 crew once the last one hits both. This way they can stay in sync, and cross-play/account migration comes closer to being a reality.

 

And then Sony happened,

[SquirmyBurrito]

If waiting one extra week is that much of a punishment than I'd recommend reevaluating your priorities.

 

That's funny, because here you are complaining about having to wait. PC players shouldn't be punished just because SONY doesn't let DE update PS4 Warframe as fast as they would like to.

 

I need not re-evaluate anything. I play Warframe in my free time, I do not want to have to needlessly wait JUST because stuff takes a while to get past cert. I didn't buy a PS4, I don't play Warframe on a PS4. So why should I be forced to deal with your cons.

 

DE has had account migration and cross play in mind from day one

 

That's SONY's fault. DE has already said this, but in a much nicer way. If you want account migration (no idea where you got the cross-play thing from) go QQ at SONY.

[SCP-10912]

That's funny, because here you are complaining about having to wait. PC players shouldn't be punished just because SONY doesn't let DE update PS4 Warframe as fast as they would like to.

 

I need not re-evaluate anything. I play Warframe in my free time, I do not want to have to needlessly wait JUST because stuff takes a while to get past cert. I didn't buy a PS4, I don't play Warframe on a PS4. So why should I be forced to deal with your cons.

 

 

 

 

That's SONY's fault. DE has already said this, but in a much nicer way. If you want account migration (no idea where you got the cross-play thing from) go QQ at SONY.

 

That's funny, because here you are complaining about having to wait. PC players shouldn't be punished just because SONY doesn't let DE update PS4 Warframe as fast as they would like to.

 

I need not re-evaluate anything. I play Warframe in my free time, I do not want to have to needlessly wait JUST because stuff takes a while to get past cert. I didn't buy a PS4, I don't play Warframe on a PS4. So why should I be forced to deal with your cons.

 

 

 

 

That's SONY's fault. DE has already said this, but in a much nicer way. If you want account migration (no idea where you got the cross-play thing from) go QQ at SONY.

It's not ENTIRELY Sony's fault. It wouldn't matter if today Sony was like "Oh yeah, you can do cross-play and account migration,but your updates still have to pass our cert process" because DE is still letting PS4 stay behind. And yes, I'm complaining about update frequencies, but it's a LOT different when you have to wait a MONTH versus your WEEK. If you play it in your free time, an extra week should be no big deal, since you must have other things to do. For me, I play this quite a bit, content gets extremely boring when you have to wait 2-3 weeks, or even a month for 1 new frame and 2-3 new weapons. It's not needless waiting, it's a neccessary step to bring the community to the same page.

 

You may not be on PS4, but when DE says they consider it Warframe, and not PC Warframe and PS4 Warframe, that should tell you that they will be doing what they can to bring us together as a single commmunity, and not two divided ones that sit and argue constantly because they're on such different levels.

[Cpl_Facehugger]

DE literally can't update the PS4 version unless Sony lets them.

And on top of that, the PS4 players benefit immeasurably from us PC players acting as human guinea pigs. By the time you guys get U13, dark sectors will probably be fun, stances will be probably be reasonably common, and major bugs will be fixed.

Like, OP, I know you like melee, and melee is awesome in U13 now. But do you really want to have to farm Nef Anyo 10,000 times to get the stance you need to make your melee weapon shine?

[OMGYourMom]

If DE holds back updates, PS4 users will get bugged updates. PC gets bugged updates like every other update but they can hotfix the same day. PS4 can't do that because Sony has to cert it. Blame Sony. End of story.

[SquirmyBurrito]

It's not ENTIRELY Sony's fault. It wouldn't matter if today Sony was like "Oh yeah, you can do cross-play and account migration,but your updates still have to pass our cert process" because DE is still letting PS4 stay behind. And yes, I'm complaining about update frequencies, but it's a LOT different when you have to wait a MONTH versus your WEEK. If you play it in your free time, an extra week should be no big deal, since you must have other things to do. For me, I play this quite a bit, content gets extremely boring when you have to wait 2-3 weeks, or even a month for 1 new frame and 2-3 new weapons. It's not needless waiting, it's a neccessary step to bring the community to the same page.

 

You may not be on PS4, but when DE says they consider it Warframe, and not PC Warframe and PS4 Warframe, that should tell you that they will be doing what they can to bring us together as a single commmunity, and not two divided ones that sit and argue constantly because they're on such different levels.

 

Had a whole lot more typed, and then I realized there was no point. I decided to shorten it.

 

I play in my free-time, and I have a ton of it as I only work part-time. Delaying PC updates, wouldn't speed up PS4 updates any. The only way your updates are getting sped up is if the PS4 becomes the main Warframe platform and SONY stops c*ckblocking DE. And that isn't happening.

"So why should I be forced to deal with your cons?"

Edited April 20, 2014 by SquirmyBurrito

[intrand]

It's Sony who makes PS4 updates slower, quite literally, because they handle the cert process. And don't talk about holding back PC updates so PS4 updates can be in sync, there was already a topic about that and it was shot down in flames (in some places literally) very quickly. There is no reason whatsoever for PC players to have to wait for PS4 to be ready.

 

Assuming we wait, then any bugs that we would have found previously, would still be there. PC hotfixes would be ready almost immediately, PS4 however would need to be certified - end result we all have to deal with the same bugs until Sony certifies. No thank you.

I don't mean to single you out, but rather I'm going to address the message you're communicating, which seems to be a vocal minority.

 

I hope Digital Extremes continues to be smarter and wiser than its community with regards to how it should run its business. The people saying they'd be "punished" or that there's "no reason whatsoever" don't seem to understand the benefits of having one, big united community.

 

The suggestion to "tick-tock" efforts between making the content/code and making the PS4 port/polish over two week intervals is probably the most sane and practical suggestion I've seen yet. If you feel "gypped" for thinking you need to wait 1 extra week, try 3-5 extra weeks. More often than not only three DAYS of that extra time is Sony's fault. It's not like DE would sit with their thumbs up their bums for the "extra" week; each update, although slightly "delayed," would probably be more polished. That's a win for everyone.

 

I think it's about time I stopped reading the forums :) The vocal minority is delusional, as usual.

 

EDIT: OP, I felt the same way, which is why I installed the Windows version and started over. Our PS4 is barely getting used anyway, so it'll sit until new kickass PS4 games come along, or DE & Sony make friends. Guess which I plan on happening first.

Edited April 20, 2014 by intrand

[(PSN)Hiero_Glyph]

Without hotfixes on the PS4 I would much rather have DE release and hotfix the PC version to solve many of the issues before submitting the update to Sony for certification.  The OP simply does not understand the update process and is requesting something that will only hurt the quality of the PS4 version.

Edited April 20, 2014 by (PS4)Hiero_Glyph

[KorbanGado]

It's not ENTIRELY Sony's fault. It wouldn't matter if today Sony was like "Oh yeah, you can do cross-play and account migration,but your updates still have to pass our cert process" because DE is still letting PS4 stay behind. And yes, I'm complaining about update frequencies, but it's a LOT different when you have to wait a MONTH versus your WEEK. If you play it in your free time, an extra week should be no big deal, since you must have other things to do. For me, I play this quite a bit, content gets extremely boring when you have to wait 2-3 weeks, or even a month for 1 new frame and 2-3 new weapons. It's not needless waiting, it's a neccessary step to bring the community to the same page.

 

You may not be on PS4, but when DE says they consider it Warframe, and not PC Warframe and PS4 Warframe, that should tell you that they will be doing what they can to bring us together as a single commmunity, and not two divided ones that sit and argue constantly because they're on such different levels.

 

You know, unless any of us here are straight up working for DE or Sony, then none of us have a concrete idea of how the Cert process works, and half of the problems is everyone on the net acting like they know everything that causes a "rift" between the community. I'm going to try and elaborate my thoughts on this, so bare with me for a bit:

Warframe is in beta still, as in "not a fully released game." Maybe we should come up a new name for it, as it's not a traditional beta as most of the older crowd will recognize it, but you install the game and you check an accept box that states it's in "open beta." What this means is many, many fixes. What we do know for sure, is that on PC, where the game is directly patched to itself with no outside handlers, patching can occur whenever the Devs have something to put in (such as quick, almost immediate 'Hotfixes'). 

With a console, as far as any company has ever implied to us, the gaming non-industry folks, some form of certification process has to occur (sometimes costing the Dev money to do, as is the case elaborated by the Fez developer on why the Xbox version never received a patch to fix it's bugs). This takes time (must be given to the cert entity for review) to be applied, and is out of the hands of the Devs at that point - and god forbid that thing should fail cert and they need to re-do the entire thing. 

Consoles (afaik) don't do hotfixes. Maybe it's change in this generation over last generation, but used to be the only fixes for games would come out as DLC - whereas again, PC stuff would just punch right through when the game started and "checked for updates". I see this part changing as time goes on, getting to the point where the only difference between a console and a PC is the primary controller.

 

To push back PC updates is to push back deny the hotfixes that come present with them. What this means is that both groups would end up getting a major update (such as U12), and then having the 1 or 2 week cert time of having what is possibly a massively buggy, unplayable mess (remember that time they updated and you would consistently get stuck in place using Life Support capsules?). This wouldn't unite the community at all, it would just OUTRAGE everyone (which I guess would unite them all in hatred, but that's no way to be).So they release it on PC, and the port team theoretically gets cracking on making the changes they have to do for the different hard/software, and while they do that the PC side is getting hotfixed hotfixes to make it stable - things that afaik are generally incorporated into what you, the PS4 player gets after Cert.

 

I can understand the angst about having to wait for content updates, but at the same time blatantly telling other people they should have to wait because you do (due entirely to how current technology and the companies that run it work) seems rather childish. Should you have to wait in the perfect world? No. Fact of that matter is that at the moment, if you want to play a stable(-er) game on your PS4, it's a necessary evil. The only thing causing a rift between the PS4 and PC players is people on both sides who act like total jerks to the other side because of one reason or the other. 

I don't mean to single you out, but rather I'm going to address the message you're communicating, which seems to be a vocal minority.

 

I hope Digital Extremes continues to be smarter and wiser than its community with regards to how it should run its business. The people saying they'd be "punished" or that there's "no reason whatsoever" don't seem to understand the benefits of having one, big united community.

 

The suggestion to "tick-tock" efforts between making the content/code and making the PS4 port/polish over two week intervals is probably the most sane and practical suggestion I've seen yet. If you feel "gypped" for thinking you need to wait 1 extra week, try 3-5 extra weeks. More often than not only three DAYS of that extra time is Sony's fault. It's not like DE would sit with their thumbs up their bums for the "extra" week; each update, although slightly "delayed," would probably be more polished. That's a win for everyone.

 

I think it's about time I stopped reading the forums :) The vocal minority is delusional, as usual.

 

EDIT: OP, I felt the same way, which is why I installed the Windows version and started over. Our PS4 is barely getting used anyway, so it'll sit until new kickass PS4 games come along, or DE & Sony make friends. Guess which I plan on happening first.

I think the most practical thing they can do is what they are doing, until console downloading standards match PC's. If an update can be pushed through without needing that extra effort, that means a hotfix can be pushed through without all the extra effort, which means that indeed the two games could be going through the same thing with maybe only a day or so (for the porter team) to catch up.

I also think that no matter how consistent the two were with each other, it wouldn't fix the community. I'm, sure you might be well aware, but people will always find something to complain about each other, and even within a solid community there is always bad apples. The whole "PC master race" nonsense will always go on. The whole "how come we don't get X item because we started later?" will always happen. Door heroes will always happen (and at the moment, I'd like to think of all the issues plaguing the community, people playing a cooperative game without being cooperative is probably the biggest issue). That's really my two cents though, and most likely isn't going to be shared across the board. 

In the end, when they finally "ship" the game and are no longer adding updates, I'm sure we might see something like crossplay or whatever - but somehow, somewhere, people are still going to complain about something.

[SquirmyBurrito]

I don't mean to single you out, but rather I'm going to address the message you're communicating, which seems to be a vocal minority.

 

I hope Digital Extremes continues to be smarter and wiser than its community with regards to how it should run its business. The people saying they'd be "punished" or that there's "no reason whatsoever" don't seem to understand the benefits of having one, big united community.

 

The suggestion to "tick-tock" efforts between making the content/code and making the PS4 port/polish over two week intervals is probably the most sane and practical suggestion I've seen yet. If you feel "gypped" for thinking you need to wait 1 extra week, try 3-5 extra weeks. More often than not only three DAYS of that extra time is Sony's fault. It's not like DE would sit with their thumbs up their bums for the "extra" week; each update, although slightly "delayed," would probably be more polished. That's a win for everyone.

 

I think it's about time I stopped reading the forums :) The vocal minority is delusional, as usual.

 

EDIT: OP, I felt the same way, which is why I installed the Windows version and started over. Our PS4 is barely getting used anyway, so it'll sit until new kickass PS4 games come along, or DE & Sony make friends. Guess which I plan on happening first.

 

What makes you think that those of us opposed to OP's idea are in the minority? Did it ever occur to you that most PC players are not going to want to be needlessly delayed?

 

I'll sum this up for you since you don't seem to have proper reasoning skills.

Delaying updates for PC, pros and cons:

Pros

-...

Cons

-DE sits on finished content; We're forced to wait for no reason.

-Updates are buggy.

-No longer have hotfix capabilities.

 

The PC version being negatively impacted by the PS4 version was something DE assured us would not happen. This negatively impacts us with little/no benefit.

 

PS4 updates pros and cons (cutting out all the baseless assumptions):

Pros

-Inferiority complexes become harder to justify.

Cons

-Still get updates just as slowly.

-Updates are buggy.

-SONY still requires things pass cert.

-Large portion of the PC community now harbors negative feelings for the PS4 community.

 

There is nothing to support the claim that the PS4's update delay would decrease to anything near drastic as a week. Removing that assumption leaves you with something even worse than before. The PC community would no longer act as the first line of defense against bugs. We'd be forced to deal with buggy updates together but without the ability to quickly hotfix the game purely because doing so would leave the PS4 community behind and the OP's suggestion is trying to avoid that.

 

Don't know, considering the terribly lackluster games that I see PS4 fans trying to show off... I'd assume the latter option is more likely to occur. 

 

TL;DR- 

-What possible pro is there that will make up for all the cons on the PC side?

-Same question, but for the PS4 side.

-The delay being cut from 3-4 weeks down to 1 is a baseless assumption.

-Updates would be buggy (most likely buggier) since the PC players would no longer be meatshields for the PS4 version.

-This game is in beta, we are its beta testers. In what way is delaying PC updates and hotfixes practical?

-Not every hotfix fixes all the problems, having to sit around waiting on an update that may just cause more bugs is not practical.

-This suggestion will not improve player relationships. It will give the PC side a solid argument with which to fuel their hate brigades. 

[(PSN)Zmarq010]

OP, I completely understand your frustration, remember when we had an update in late November but didn't get another one till like mid January? That was the most painful thing ever, dealing with the same crashes and bugs for that long and not to mention some people lost their data.

 

I tried asking if a Client Launcher was at all was possible for us, but it goes nowhere. It would really help for hotfixes, and just updates in general,  we had to wait 3 weeks for the recent bugs, glitches, connection issues, and crashes to be fixed recently and the worst part is it didn't seem to fix what was promised as they still occur.

 

I've tried asking Sony about Client no response, I've tried asking around here, no actual response saying why it wouldn't or would be possible.

 

I'm not pointing fingers or trying to rant, I just want us to be able to get at least get the small but important stuff handled without the hassle of the certification process.