Tripple Hp, Not Tripple The Fun!

[Kdansky]

When I started playing Warframe last week, I found it refreshing that it has no cover mechanics, you have relatively little health, enemies are dangerous, and you can actually lose a level, especially if solo. When you get to know how it works, getting through a solo-mission at your level without ever dying is possible, but quite difficult. Not as challenging as Dark Souls, but still thrilling. It's the first game since DS where I sighed a breath of relief when I barely managed to get away. That moment is much more rewarding than any unlock could ever be.

I specced my Excalibur into Shield, Vitality and Armor, and I found I was really sturdy, apart from some bosses who can one-shot people. Other people played glass cannons with all their slots dedicated to more damage.

And then you trippled everyone's HP on the 2013-04-01 patch. Now I feel completely invulnerable, I have removed all but one defensive mod, and I can still solo anything easily without ever dying, with sub-optimal gear, because I've got 300 shield and if that should ever run out, a really fat HP pool of another 300. I had 100/350 before, and it felt less tanky, because my shield could only withstand a few stray shots. Now I can tank a 3 Corpus Moas long enough to take them all out. That would habe been possible once or twice before, and then I would have died. Now, this doesn't even touch my HP. Everyone is required to spec into Stamina, Stamina recovery and Sprint speed, because that's the best way to do missions quickly, since there is zero risk. It reminds me of Diablo 3, in a bad way: So easy it's boring.

What I'm trying to say: Warframe was hard solo, great with two players, (too) easy with four players, and I just wished I could restrict my open missions to two people instead of the normal 4, but that was okay. Now it's easy while solo, super-easy with two players, and you can watch TV if you're four people. When you have a combined 1200 shield, nobody ever goes down, because the enemies distribute their fire.

Fixes: EIther revert (that's what I hope for), or increase all damage. I don't like that, because it makes it very hard to tell how much damage you can take. 300 might be a lot in Mercury, but really little on Pluto. I'd rather know that "100 is always very little" and "300 is always a lot", no matter where I go. Leveling up gives you mod slots, and those are great as a reward.

Edited April 2, 2013 by Kdansky

[Venarge]

wont happen. Most people asked for passive buffs. now they got them. I dont think its gonna changed

[LoRDxDeMoN]

Can't please everybody.

[f3llyn]

They said just yesterday that this was only the first part of the changes they have coming. They plan to make higher end missions more difficult, enemy AI better, etc. And they have also mentioned they are changing the shield/hp mods.

They had to put the passives in before everything else was complete to curb the massive amount of complaints from people playing 20+ hours without getting single shield mod drop. And the problem was twofold in that you literally had to equip those things if you wanted to go into the higher level missions. The passives fix both of those issues to some extent. It also helps promote mod diversity.

Is the situation ideal? No. But it's what we have and this is a beta game that's being changed literally from week to week. Two weeks ago the current card mod system didn't even exist in the game. So yeah, just give it a little time and DE will hopefully sort everything out.

Edited April 2, 2013 by f3llyn

[Claentor]

I'm going to note that if you were having trouble taking on a trio of moas solo, you were doing something wrong. On my end, I feel like it just made the leveling actually worthwhile aside of getting more mod slots. I've got 300/460 right now, and I still get one-shotted by certain bosses (that friggin' Hyena, seriously, those homing missiles are some serious BS). This is neglecting to mention, getting caught in a bad position is still getting caught in a bad position. Now, it's a bit more forgiving for getting into a firefight that you are in a decent position to get through with minimal damage. Going through high difficulty infestation solo is still going to be a dicey affair, as is any situation where you frequently find yourself surrounded by enemies with strong interrupts.

[Brolleun]

The modules of Vitality and Redirection should be removed for Warframes if they are truly trivializing gameplay with the recent patch, and not grandfathered in. The Warframe developers could simply give anyone who has those Modules, and based on their level, a credit or platinum compensation.

I simply don't play with those modules anymore and still find the game challenging at times. Obviously I am speaking from only the point of view of some who has completed a few planets (I'm still relatively new) but that doesn't suddenly discount my experiences, and everything from Mars, Mercury, Saturn, Venus, Earth, and Pluto can be challenging when you leave the Vitality and Redirection modules out.

I'm just hoping this doesn't suddenly make other challenges and other planets so extreme to where I feel I must use those modules once again in single player instances.

Edited April 2, 2013 by Brolleun

[Kdansky]

I'm going to note that if you were having trouble taking on a trio of moas solo, you were doing something wrong.

No, not "taking on": I meant "stand there while they pummel you, and ignore all cover, because that just takes time for no good reason."

On my end, I feel like it just made the leveling actually worthwhile aside of getting more mod slots.

Unlocking mods, increasing mod slots, leveling up mods, unlocking guns, crafting frames, leveling up frames, and leveling up guns wasn't enough leveing up stuff for you?

As for difficulty: The game went from "somewhat hard" to "easier than WoW". Have you seen anyone go down or even die since the patch? Because I haven't. If you equip zero defensive mods AND make a decent number of major mistakes in quick succession, it might be possible to get killed. Losing once in a blue moon isn't a decent game. Imagine you beat Super Mario on your very first try because three lives are plenty.

And if you equip any defensive mod at all, the game becomes a screen saver.

This annoys me a lot because I found the difficulty was actually really well-designed when I started playing it, to the point where I was impressed, which happens once every few years. And then they dropped a patch that all but ruined it. I'm glad I could play it before this happened...

Edited April 2, 2013 by Kdansky

[f3llyn]

You said you started playing Warframe last week. Have you made it to Pluto or Eris yet? Because there are things there that will deplete your shields before you even realize you're being hit even after the passives were added.

The system is only partially complete and if you want to ignore everything in my previous post then that's on you. But your concerns are going to be addressed in the (not to distant) future.

This game literally changes from week to week so if something bugs you about a change this week just wait a week and it might be different the next time you play. I've never seen a game change and evolve and add things that player suggest as fast as this one. Just be a little patient.

Edited April 2, 2013 by f3llyn

[Kdansky]

You said you started playing Warframe last week. Have you made it to Pluto or Eris yet? Because there are things there that will deplete your shields before you even realize you're being hit.

Diablo 3 flashback! Play through the game three times on baby mode to unlock the actual game!

I'm not going to bore myself through many dozen more missions in the hope that it will get "as good as it was before the patch" again. That's way too frustrating (and also boring).

Edited April 2, 2013 by Kdansky

[SENmeV]

yeah lol i almost had an heart attack when i logged my rhino and he had 1.2k of hp

if i couldnt be killed when i popped iron skin now i dont even need that ability anymore

[MJ12]

So you're what? Taking an overleveled frame into areas and finding it suspicious that you don't take much damage?

Because the lv20ish Grineer Lancers on Sedna can chew through 60+ shields with one burst.

These are trash mobs, people. Trash mobs. And Moas/etc have 70+ dps at comparable levels.

Yes, you don't die if you take some hits.

You still don't want to take them.

[contractkiller4]

The passive increase was great for Loki, as his 75 shield feels as effective as paper.

[f3llyn]

Diablo 3 flashback! Play through the game three times on baby mode to unlock the actual game!

I'm not going to bore myself through many dozen more missions in the hope that it will get "as good as it was before the patch" again. That's way too frustrating (and also boring).

What are you expecting when you level up your frames and weapons then? The earlier levels are going to get easier. Your attitude towards that doesn't make a whole lot of sense. I'm not trying to put you off as a new player but your complaint in this case doesn't make sense. And you do have control over this somewhat, if you want a constant challenge just don't level your weapons/mods up.

And then there is the fact that as you play the game you (hopefully) get better. This also makes the earlier levels easier too. So again, what are you expecting? I already told you they're going to adjust difficulty later. The passives were just the first change in the process to get ready for other things.

This is a level/progression based game so I'm not sure what you were expecting, honestly.

Edited April 2, 2013 by f3llyn

[Toddwjp]

They need this because they want to make the higher end of the game harder. As well as some boss fights harder

[DEATHLOK]

I was kinda freaking out, too, but then maybe the game was too hard at the earlier levels, and DE wanted to extend a more gradual ascent up the skill ladder? Truth is, I don't know how hard the game gets on the outer planets. Maybe players needed these buffs to play on the high end?

I had been banging around Mercury and Saturn, unable to move past bosses and traps that pose no threat to me now, and that was with a level 30 frame. If this system had been in place earlier, perhaps I would be further along into the game.

The game certainly was tough before, and the challenge kept me hooked. I hope it returns in later levels.

[Cakes]

Well, with nearly 2k shields on Mag and Guardian on Shade, you basically beat the game. Killing you will now require A) a sizeable platoon from Pluto and B) you utterly fail to avoid/reduce any dps they put out.

This is a level/progression based game so I'm not sure what you were expecting, honestly.

I was expecting the game to get harder as I progressed, not just hand me the combination for what has virtually become a cheat code for infinite shield. The skill ceiling was dropped pretty hard, as now I'm seeing a lot of people facetank bosses without much consequence. Trinity didn't even need Link. But whatever, DE will probably adjust things since their track record on stuff like this is pretty awesome.

In the meantime I'm off to go have fun with friends at the Grineer petting zoos on Pluto.

[Jokyma]

What are you expecting when you level up your frames and weapons then? The earlier levels are going to get easier. Your attitude towards that doesn't make a whole lot of sense. I'm not trying to put you off as a new player but your complaint in this case doesn't make sense. And you do have control over this somewhat, if you want a constant challenge just don't level your weapons/mods up.

And then there is the fact that as you play the game you (hopefully) get better. This also makes the earlier levels easier too. So again, what are you expecting? I already told you they're going to adjust difficulty later. The passives were just the first change in the process to get ready for other things.

This is a level/progression based game so I'm not sure what you were expecting, honestly.

don't you understand that he is trying to say that after maxing things out its too easy for everyone? and what do you mean by not level them? whats the mod for? its meant for you to level as you go, its not a excuse to ask people to stop leveling their mods to find it "challenging" i find it pretty selffish to ask people to stop doing things when they are meant to do it, i really find iron skin useless when you have a 1.2k to block for you. yes we know that the devs are going to make the game harder next time. this is our opinion don't go round turning off others intrest in the game, try to encourage them i would say.

look at every single level the same whole thing just diffrent goals all you do is run around shooting and slashing while tanking, no new moves man i don't see players using wallrun to do flashy moves if its meant to be a "action game" all i see is charging striaght and slash. action games are fast paced i know but that does'nt give you the rights to say its a meant to have a 1.2k(godlike) shield to charge. all we want is a retweaked and yes we "know" that its going to change as i said its our own opinion for now so encourage players and give them hope

cheers

[TheSuperTaco]

triple HP = endless god mode

we alreadyhave passive boost ,´the sheild/health mods(maxed level) on an iron skin rhino means god mode already, and you still ask for more?

no no no and no, and this game has same maps so please tripple the fun and not the hp, i want a challenge and fun like everyone else. do not listen to this noob that wants god mode to win

[Jokyma]

triple HP = endless god mode

we alreadyhave passive boost ,´the sheild/health mods(maxed level) on an iron skin rhino means god mode already, and you still ask for more?

no no no and no, and this game has same maps so please tripple the fun and not the hp, i want a challenge and fun like everyone else. do not listen to this noob that wants god mode to win

he is complaining on the game being to easy not hard, its not triple its tripple

[santa_ryan]

I agree. This patch is absolutely stupid. I have 810 shields, gaurdian on the setinal, and 315 HP. I can sit there and revive teammates or literally walk through missions without firing once and letting my setinal handle it. I find this to be absolutely rediculous. The game is simply not fun right now. I could take off the mods sure, but that's not fixing the core problem at all. Before I was having to use cover properly with crouching and I would have to switch views to keep an eye on the chain gunner grineer and I would most definitely have to run in and out of firefights tag teaming with teammates. Now, I can easily solo missions that would have been damn near impossible before.

They should have patched enemy AI and damages at the same time they did this patch. Rolling out patch week after week doesn't make you a better developer. Rolling out a patch that actually makes sense makes you a better developer.

They basically just did the equivalent of patching in a week long (maybe longer) god mode thats permanently enabled for the duration of the patch.

Edited April 2, 2013 by santa_ryan

[PoisonedTea]

its for scaling reasons but really I don't like it

[Tyrian3k]

I agree. This patch is absolutely stupid. I have 810 shields, gaurdian on the setinal, and 315 HP. I can sit there and revive teammates or literally walk through missions without firing once and letting my setinal handle it. I find this to be absolutely rediculous. The game is simply not fun right now. I could take off the mods sure, but that's not fixing the core problem at all. Before I was having to use cover properly with crouching and I would have to switch views to keep an eye on the chain gunner grineer and I would most definitely have to run in and out of firefights tag teaming with teammates. Now, I can easily solo missions that would have been damn near impossible before.

They should have patched enemy AI and damages at the same time they did this patch. Rolling out patch week after week doesn't make you a better developer. Rolling out a patch that actually makes sense makes you a better developer.

They basically just did the equivalent of patching in a week long (maybe longer) god mode thats permanently enabled for the duration of the patch.

Did you pay Eris and Pluto a visit yet? Did you play defense missions to points where enemies are level 80+?

Just making sure that you are actually talking about more difficult missions here...

[Xtorma]

Diablo 3 flashback! Play through the game three times on baby mode to unlock the actual game!

I'm not going to bore myself through many dozen more missions in the hope that it will get "as good as it was before the patch" again. That's way too frustrating (and also boring).

Bye

[JerryMouse13]

Attention all whiners, we ask that you please try to solo either pluto or eris (or really any area outside of mercury and venus for that matter), before posting here about how the game is now too easy.

Additionally the Devs have already stated their intention to rebalance health and shield mods in future updates, as well as make later game enemies more leathal.

Remember kids, this game is still in beta and sweeping design changes will be common place until DE is happy with the final product.

[Feddy]

What I'm trying to say: Warframe was hard solo, great with two players, (too) easy with four players, and I just wished I could restrict my open missions to two people instead of the normal 4, but that was okay. Now it's easy while solo, super-easy with two players, and you can watch TV if you're four people. When you have a combined 1200 shield, nobody ever goes down, because the enemies distribute their fire.

I so agree with you, i fell in love with this game really fast not too long ago cause i found it an actual challenge, a few to many levels still felt like a walk in the park but others really required my attention even when i played with friends. After the HP / Shield buff the game got incredible boring now i hardly even pay attention while playing and i even tend to tab out mid combat to respond to text mssages etc, and im not even close to dieing when i tab back in. I mean geez if you can survive fighting tons of enemies while only using one hand there is something terribly wrong.

If people really want easy mode let them grind Mercury, cause most of us play games to be challenged..

EDIT: Just took down a stalker aswell without even dropping a drop of sweat i mean really?.. game is unplayable as it is right now

Edited April 3, 2013 by Feddy