Finally Trinity's Blessing Is Being Looked At!

[Aimop95]

You realize nerfing any of the frames capable of getting to wave/minute 50 will be extremely detrimental to the older players on Warframe right? Because Warframe has no real "end game" content aside from bullet sponges with high damage, Trinity is absolutely essential for the current endgame (which is how long i survived in an endless defense/survival).

 

Change the endgame to something that is not all about bullet sponges then consider taking away Trinity's blessing.

[Spliffy_McGee]

Dot tell me youre only in it for the blessing and not to be a good heal support

 

IMO, Blessing is good heal support.  In fact, it's the only effective heal she has.  Her #1 is pointless: nobody in your group ever knows what it is, and immediately focus fire on it and wonder why it's taking so long to die.  Same with her #2, except they don't have to wonder why they die so slowly.  Link is clearly only helpful to Trin herself, which leaves #4, Blessing.  It heals your allies no matter where they are, and keeps em from dying for a few seconds.  Why ruin her only team-effective skill?  I mean, come on.

[(PSN)Bobtm0]

On one note, I'm glad Trinity is being looked at as Blessing is just ridiculously easy to abuse to the point where it just trivialized the game.

 

On the other side however, I find it to be in severely poor taste that DE waited this long to actually do something about it.

 

Basically, players have been given far too long to have Blessing in its current form, to the point where it has come to be seen as an acceptable part of the gameplay by a fairly large portion of the community.  Of course there's the other side which has pretty much always hated it, but for some reason my brain is recalling that there was another issue alike this one just lately.  The community being divided upon the inclusion/nerf of an odd, yet undeniably swift, movement mechanic which reminded one of a rotary blade based flying device...  That same issue being left in for far, far too long, however the difference being that the former, Blessing, will likely cease to exist in its current form with the latter, coptering, getting a proverbial green light.

 

It's a tricky situation really, it's not like Trinity has a ton else going for her in many scenarios.  Her 2 is, in most cases, blatantly reliant on her 1 being in place, her 3 being in a generally good place in comparison to what most 3s are capable of across the board.  Trinity's 4 is currently just ludicrous however, that being said there's something that comes to my mind that could potentially ease the issue to an extent, which would be a sort of mass rework to her 3 & 4.

 

First off, if Blessing actually had a limited range (which it really always should have), running a corrupt build with maxed Narrow Minded would actually create a noticeably negative impact.  However what would stop someone from simply negating it with Overextended + Stretch?  In my mind it would be re-working Link so that power strength impacted both the damage resistance and damage reflection aspects of said skill.  Make a Trinity feel the negative impacts from a corrupted build on her 3 & 4.  Don't kill the invulnerability DE, as much as I personally hate it you've left it in too long at this point, in my opinion, as that will butcher far too many players' "endgames", but put some constraints on it.  If Trinity is support, having a range limiter which forces her to actually stay nearer to allies is definitely a worthwhile thing.

 

Another note though is that, from my standpoint at least, her 1 & 2 just feel a bit... lackluster.  That being said I'm not entirely sure as to how they could be remedied.  Potentially allowing them to be a free-aimed missile that creates a pulsating well of health/energy at any point on the map and modifying how they interact with duration modifiers?  Maybe adding flexibility in that targeting an enemy with either, as is currently working, would provide notably stronger beneficial effects in comparison to the non-enemy hit variants?

 

At this point I'd say it's just in everyone's best interest to acknowledge that Blessing will get changed and try to brainstorm on ways to do so that will prevent Trinity from being effectively crippled by it, increasing the worth of her entire kit so that Blessing isn't the crutch it currently is.

[Archistopheles]

Yeah it's not about showing em, it's about whether the frame is fun to play or not...

 

I play Frost a lot more now after his rework.

 

Everyone plays Rhino after his rework.

 

I am keeping the faith that Trinity will be even more "fun" after her rework.

 

I guess I didn't look close enough. Carry on. >.>

 

<3

[theammostore]

Then don't play with a Trinity that uses Blessing so you can brag about your skills in this numbers game?

 

But then, it only matters that you have a Loki around to rez you every time a Grineer Lancer's stray bullet decides to hit you and instantly downs you.

Again, saying "don't use it" is not an excuse for game balance. Just like in call of duty, if some gun managed to outperform every other gun at all ranges and engagement times, saying "don't use it" won't make that gun any more OP. Or a sword in some game like world of warcraft that is extremely way too powerful for the level at which you get it. Again, saying "don't use it" doesn't make it any less OP.

 

Come up with a better reason why complete content nullification is a GOOD thing for game balance and then maybe this discussion can go somewhere. Right now, all I'm seeing from everybody is 'it's fun for me so stop  trying to nerf it!' and a bunch of 'there might as well not be a game because of this skill' from both sides.

[Spliffy_McGee]

 

Everyone plays Rhino after his rework.

 

I only have Rhino so I can fill my pokedex codex

[Azawarau]

IMO, Blessing is good heal support.  In fact, it's the only effective heal she has.  Her #1 is pointless: nobody in your group ever knows what it is, and immediately focus fire on it and wonder why it's taking so long to die.  Same with her #2, except they don't have to wonder why they die so slowly.  Link is clearly only helpful to Trin herself, which leaves #4, Blessing.  It heals your allies no matter where they are, and keeps em from dying for a few seconds.  Why ruin her only team-effective skill?  I mean, come on.

Her # 1 is a great heavy enemy stopper along with her #2

 

Ill admit her 1 is useless outside of that for me but her 2 can be helpful in long waves with high energy eating team members

 

A friend with his frost and I duod very high in ODD using energy vamp to fuel his #4 before it was given a nerf

 

Link is IMO on par with iron skin when you use it correctly

 

75% dmg reduction and damage reflection is nothing to scoff at

 

It does get to be kind of useless on high waves where even iron skin doesnt hold up very well but at that point most things arent great so its nothing to pick on

[Archistopheles]

I only have Rhino so I can fill my pokedex codex

 

You get a little gold star

 

★

[(PSN)madguy132]

Ok fine DE. But when my 1k shield 1k hp frame get 1-hit KO by the enemies when it took 1-2 clips to kill them, then how do you plan to fix that?

[Azawarau]

Ok fine DE. But when my 1k shield 1k hp frame get 1-hit KO by the enemies when it took 1-2 clips to kill them, then how do you plan to fix that?

Thats the question we all want answered :x

[Naftal]

Ok fine DE. But when my 1k shield 1k hp frame get 1-hit KO by the enemies when it took 1-2 clips to kill them, then how do you plan to fix that?

If you insist on playing for hours of defense or survival, that's something you have to deal with yourself. The game is never going to be balanced around those levels.

[(PSN)Bobtm0]

For some reason I suddenly can't quote anyone, so to go on the tangent mentioned above by madguy132 and Azawarau;  That's more an issue with how this game's overall balance has been handled.

 

Currently speaking, Warframe is going with a balance model where offensive stats, both of the player and of the foe, vastly outclasses the defensive stats of each.  This type of balancing leads to the eventual point where everything is so heavily skewed that nothing works.  To reach that stage of play, the players are already forma'ing their gear to a ridiculous degree as well as, in this case in point, relying on a horribly implemented/designed skill (Blessing).

 

This issue is tricky because these players have been allowed to dump a lot of time and resources into their frames and weaponry and now they effectively want a target that makes these things feel worthwhile.  However, the current "endgame" they're reaching at the high wave/long survivals is nothing more than a fallacy at best since they're only surviving there by removing their ability to be damaged by any source.  However at anything less than this point their weaponry does so much damage that it trivialized the difficulty anyways.

 

Without effectively overhauling the ways in which the game is balanced entirely around the defense to offense ration, the only solution would be to just add a game mode where the enemies are put at moderate/high levels to where their damage is appropriately challenging, talking 30-50 range roughly, but then having an innate modifier that drastically boosts their defensive traits so that they aren't so swiftly killed, allowing for heated gun-fights and what have you.

 

If you've delved so deep into an endless game mode where Blessing (aka ridiculous invulnerability) has become a necessity, then you've gone far beyond the point of balance.

[G33ke]

It's a shame it took this long before being looked at. Now it's essential in high level content and people rely on it. :/

 

On one hand, yes, it does need to be changed. The fact that so many people are pleading for it not to be changed farther proves the point it needs to be changed - clearly a lot of people rely on it and don't want it gone for those high levels. If people are really worried about it because they won't be able to do as well in endgame, that there is no alternative, then yes, we have a severe case of imbalance that needs fixed. (If you claim imbalance in PvE doesn't matter, than I highly recommend doing some research on game design. It matters almost as much as it does in PvP, it just effects the game more passively.)

 

On the other hand, I can understand why people are upset: The high level content they are so used to doing could be completely jeopardized, and it doesn't leave much for them to go to. However, the fact that only one frame is capable of making that possible tells me that the real problem here is that high level content really needs its own rework, to make more options viable, make it more accessible, (not sitting through 30 minutes of "meh" to get to it) etc..

 

 

Whether or not Blessing needs nerfed before or after that rework I'm unsure. It really depends on how DE handles it and how the community reacts, which I cannot predict either. I know DE is working on endgame elements, and Dark Sectors are one, but that's not enough for everyone to flock to yet in my opinion.

[Azawarau]

For some reason I suddenly can't quote anyone, so to go on the tangent mentioned above by madguy132 and Azawarau;  That's more an issue with how this game's overall balance has been handled.

 

Currently speaking, Warframe is going with a balance model where offensive stats, both of the player and of the foe, vastly outclasses the defensive stats of each.  This type of balancing leads to the eventual point where everything is so heavily skewed that nothing works.  To reach that stage of play, the players are already forma'ing their gear to a ridiculous degree as well as, in this case in point, relying on a horribly implemented/designed skill (Blessing).

 

This issue is tricky because these players have been allowed to dump a lot of time and resources into their frames and weaponry and now they effectively want a target that makes these things feel worthwhile.  However, the current "endgame" they're reaching at the high wave/long survivals is nothing more than a fallacy at best since they're only surviving there by removing their ability to be damaged by any source.  However at anything less than this point their weaponry does so much damage that it trivialized the difficulty anyways.

 

Without effectively overhauling the ways in which the game is balanced entirely around the defense to offense ration, the only solution would be to just add a game mode where the enemies are put at moderate/high levels to where their damage is appropriately challenging, talking 30-50 range roughly, but then having an innate modifier that drastically boosts their defensive traits so that they aren't so swiftly killed, allowing for heated gun-fights and what have you.

 

If you've delved so deep into an endless game mode where Blessing (aka ridiculous invulnerability) has become a necessity, then you've gone far beyond the point of balance.

Agreed...

 

But from the opponents side they seem to believe as long as were playing Coop it doesnt matter how strong we are

[IamSalva]

Trinity nerf? Well go nerf your minds people! I think the community are full of trolls, giving fake feedback and useless nerf suggestions...

Do these players ever played T3 survival for at least 30 minutes or more?

Are players jealous of this ability?

 

Wow.. 

 

Yes i play T3 survival 

Solo. 30 Mins... Without Trinity

 

YOU REALY THINK ITS SOMETHING TO BE PROUD OF DOING 30+ Mins with TRINITY???

 

Wtf are you smoking..

 

Its NOT bad if you can´t do 2h+ Easy Mode... IF blessing gets nerfed doing 2h+ Survival will perhapse be something to be proud of again...

[rockthatwoodx]

How about...YOU DONT PLAY TRINITY OR USE BLESSING?

 

Problem solved. Now stop crying for a nerf people. No reason Trin should be nerfed. Blessing is fine as it is and if you don't like her power then don't use it.

[naardejood]

Loki/Ash becoming completely untargettable: Okay.

 

Valkyr complete invincibility, CC invulnerability, health regeneration and a damage buff: No problem here.

 

Trinity invincibility with *no* CC invulnerability:  NO. FÜCK YOU.

[Naftal]

Loki/Ash becoming completely untargettable: Okay.

 

Valkyr complete invincibility, CC invulnerability, health regeneration and a damage buff: No problem here.

 

Trinity invincibility with *no* CC invulnerability:  NO. FÜCK YOU.

Valkyr is also limited to crappy melee animations with no elemental damage during hysteria.

 

Trinity also makes the whole group invulnerable.

[(PSN)Bobtm0]

Loki may not be able to be directly targeted, but his base HP/shielding are so low that a glancing bullet is enough to make him effectively evaporate.  Whereas Ash, who's invisibility last's for a shorter time mind you, has the limitations upon how Smoke Screen is cast and is, once again, quite capable of still taking damage and thusly dying.

 

Valkyr is obviously the most "work in progress" of the frames.  While her invulnerability should be removed as well in my opinion, it's not problematic at the moment due to how much it can and does effectively weaken you.

 

Oh blimey that's it, instead of removing Trinity's invulnerability or weakening it in some way, we can just make it so when anyone casts Blessing the whole team is forced into floaty-punchy mode ^_^ Marvelously genius idea.

 

All jokes aside, balance does matter in a PVE setting, regardless of what some may oddly believe.  Otherwise, why don't we just have infinite health and ammo cheats in every game ever?  There's a reason why developers stopped putting cheat codes into games, maybe you guys on the other side of this debate should check up on your gaming knowledge a bit.

[Azawarau]

How about...YOU DONT PLAY TRINITY OR USE BLESSING?

 

Problem solved. Now stop crying for a nerf people. No reason Trin should be nerfed. Blessing is fine as it is and if you don't like her power then don't use it.

That doesnt change the fact that its totally broken

 

Its for the good of the entire game whether you like it or not

 

Loki/Ash becoming completely untargettable: Okay.

 

Valkyr complete invincibility, CC invulnerability, health regeneration and a damage buff: No problem here.

 

Trinity invincibility with *no* CC invulnerability:  NO. FÜCK YOU.

Loki lacks any type of damage and can still be hit and killed. His radial disarm is what might be an issue

 

Ash is basically useless outside of his weaker invisibility and arguably useful 4

 

Valkyr only makes herself invincible and is limited in her ability to damage or CC in any way

 

Trinity makes the entire party invincible, not just herself

 

Virtually eliminating all need for CC or defense of any kind

 

Also

 

Just because one frame is OP doesnt mean we shouldnt nerf her

 

She and any other frames that are too strong should be nerfed or rebelanced accordingly

 

Your entire argument is on the base that they arent going to have any changes made in the future

 

If you see a problem then make a post about it

 

If you keep using such poor defenses for your arguments then you arent going to prove any kind of point to anyone but someone with as linear thinking as youve shown in this post

 

I dont mean to insult you so sorry for the kind of harsh tone

 

I dislike poorly built arguments

Edited April 26, 2014 by Azawarau

[rockthatwoodx]

Valkyr is also limited to crappy melee animations with no elemental damage during hysteria.

 

Trinity also makes the whole group invulnerable.

 

and they are also working on making Valkyr's Hysteria BETTER, while nerfing Blessing? 

 

how do dat mak cents

[Naftal]

and they are also working on making Valkyr's Hysteria BETTER, while nerfing Blessing? 

 

how do dat mak cents

It maks better cents than you do.

 

Hysteria has downsides, you can only use bad melee for less potential damage AND you'll take all damage that you would've taken from enemies still alive near you at the end of the effect.

 

Blessing has no downside whatsoever.

[IamSalva]

and they are also working on making Valkyr's Hysteria BETTER, while nerfing Blessing? 

 

how do dat mak cents

 

If you really don´t see why Blessing is so much better than Hysteria... well what should i say.. you seem like a total idiot then.

 

But i assume you just act like you don´t know it because you like easy mode...

[ViLeDeth]

and they are also working on making Valkyr's Hysteria BETTER, while nerfing Blessing? 

 

how do dat mak cents

 

Your tears and the tears of others are delicious in any amount you offer be it crocodile tears or copious amounts pouring into my autobots coffee mug.

 

LOL I can't believe anyone would be saying Loki needs a nerf - he's all utility. If a lv120 enemy just hand-tosses a bullet at him he'll disappear... permanently.

 

 

Trinity's blessing shouldn't be spammable. If it was removed so what - if it was to be kept, let it be revised accordingly as to not jeopardize the fun factor in the game for players who want to do things other than T3 survival 1hr.

 

I'm coming from the "defense/survival" is my end game crowd. Blessing is a great way to save a team but to rely on it soley is just... too damn boring and pointless. The challenge now falls onto the Trinity alone to be able to recast it without lag or disconnects.

 

That's not strategy anymore, that's just mindless smashing of a 4th ability.

Don't be mindless, have a conscious consideration on Warframe's longevity as a fun game. Nerfs are needed with great care and even greater observation of the changes.

Edited April 26, 2014 by ViLeDeth

[ViLeDeth]

If you really don´t see why Blessing is so much better than Hysteria... well what should i say.. you seem like a total idiot then.

 

But i assume you just act like you don´t know it because you like easy mode...

 

Awwww, you want a tissue?