List Of 0% Tribute Dark Sectors, Support Their Cause

[OniDax]

Ehhh... ehhhhhhhhhhh do the freaking irony of what you write hits you in the face ? Couse it must hurt like hell.

First of all. You talking about greedy milk yet you dont find yourself greedy for wanting 20k instead of 17.5k credits ?

Then you go on how large alliances can force their members to donate just so you dont lose them 2.5k credits from the tax. What was about that greedy milk you were talking ?

BTW taxes are there for two reasons. One its fuel for the battle pay - you know the 10-20k per 3 min run reward. Second taxes are need so a rail can be quickly opened to the public instead of 12 hours of lockdown ( yeah right now rails are burned down fast due to Decisive Judgement but this hype will be over soon ).

You are not the one to decide if we are a burden. Want to do something about us ? Well for one missinformation and propaganda is not the right way. Get your shadow clan in an alliance and go forward.

So in conclusion - dont be soo freaking greedy mate.

There's nothing greedy about wanting all of your credits! Damn, the idiocy of some people here... You want to know what's greedy? Eclipse attacking Pluto-Sechura merely because it's a 0% tax node.

Edited April 28, 2014 by AntoineFlemming

[Saenol]

 

One its fuel for the battle pay - you know the 10-20k per 3 min run reward.

 

20-23k for five minutes of Dark Sector that is available on demand 80%+ of the time is way better than 10-20k for three minute runs only available in a few hour long window.

 

Second taxes are need so a rail can be quickly opened to the public instead of 12 hours of lockdown ( yeah right now rails are burned down fast due to Decisive Judgement but this hype will be over soon ).

 

An open rail that charges 25% is hardly a worthy boon.

 

They pay you 10k a few times, then take 5-6k from you for four times the number of missions. Yeah, real brilliant mathematics behind the potential Eclipse supporters.

Edited April 28, 2014 by Saenol

[Squig]

There's nothing greedy about wanting all of your credits! Damn, the idiocy of some people here... You want to know what's greedy? Eclipse attacking Pluto-Sechura merely because it's a 0% tax node.

There's more to it than that. You can claim eclipse is greedy and maybe there's an argument, but the same can be argued of people who demand all their credits when it's the clans/alliances who give them access to the dark sectors. Remember this, Eclipse -never- charges resource tax, many of their competitors that do charge Taxes do. So consider who is actually better for you carefully.

[LadyScootaloo]

There's more to it than that. You can claim eclipse is greedy and maybe there's an argument, but the same can be argued of people who demand all their credits when it's the clans/alliances who give them access to the dark sectors. Remember this, Eclipse -never- charges resource tax, many of their competitors that do charge Taxes do. So consider who is actually better for you carefully.

 

SoV. 0% tax on best credit farm.

DEFEND SECHURA!

[Saenol]

There's more to it than that. You can claim eclipse is greedy and maybe there's an argument, but the same can be argued of people who demand all their credits when it's the clans/alliances who give them access to the dark sectors. Remember this, Eclipse -never- charges resource tax, many of their competitors that do charge Taxes do. So consider who is actually better for you carefully.

 

These alliances don't "give" people access if they are taxing, they simply protect their cash cow and banner waving fetish.

[Squig]

These alliances don't "give" people access if they are taxing, they simply protect their cash cow and banner waving fetish.

Actually they do. If their doing a 0% tax rail not only did they supply the rail but they continue to supply the credits to offer any battlepays as well as to repair it. It's really not as simple as you think it is.

[OniDax]

There's more to it than that. You can claim eclipse is greedy and maybe there's an argument, but the same can be argued of people who demand all their credits when it's the clans/alliances who give them access to the dark sectors. Remember this, Eclipse -never- charges resource tax, many of their competitors that do charge Taxes do. So consider who is actually better for you carefully.

 

Again, wanting all of what's yours isn't greed. It's the same faulty argument that says that founders are greedy for wanting that exclusive stuff to stay exclusive. No, they aren't. What's better for the dark sectors as a whole is for there to be more variety in who owns different sectors. What's better for me as a whole is to not be taxed 25% of my credits. What's better for me is to oppose blanket aggression against a zero tax node. What's better for me is to oppose the people who still try to use 50k battlepay as a false excuse to support Eclipse. What's better for me is to oppose those who say that anyone outspoken against Eclipse is somehow lazy or not dedicated enough or scared of being growled at. That's better for me.

[avinity8]

I simply don't play a DS if it's a clan/alliance I dislike. Not letting them profit off of me. Even in real life I despise the greedy.

 

Viva La revolution!

[Salishaz]

Do you assume that the tax and battle pay always involve the same outside players and are equal in credit amount and equal in occurrence?  If so I can understand where that sentence is coming from, but neither of those assumptions are true.

 

I, for example, don't mind running rails that Eclipse currently runs and has a 25% tax on, like Amarna on Sedna.  Base credit payout is 8K for that particular mission.  A 25% tax on that means my base credit profit is 6K credits, and they earn 2K base credits.  I don't mind running it because it profits me in the resources and EXP too.

 

So Eclipse earns ~2K credits each time I run Amarna with the current setup.

 

And when Eclipse is in a conflict, I don't pay attention unless the battle pay is over 10K, because I generally need to gear up to deal with the specters and I'm too lazy to swap out the gear I'm ranking for my high-end gear unless the pay is 10K or more.  Generally 12-15K is what I aim for but I'll run for 10K if I need it.

 

So they earn 2K each time I run a dark sector mission (with me getting 6K), and then they pay me 10K+ whenever I bother to run  a conflict on their side.  Even with a 25% tax, I personally profit quite a bit and in fact am a drain on their resources.

 

 

 

But this brings up the question of where their credit stock comes from if they pay more than they earn from players like me, which I'm placing down here since it's not entirely related to my response to that section of your post.  In no particular order...

 

1 - Their own members contributing directly.  Not sure how much of an impact this is.

 

2 - Their own members running the dark sectors while they're open.  If these members are getting taxed but not getting battle pay then they are solely profit to the credit fund, right?

 

3 - Outside players that run the taxed rails over and over and over on purpose, not caring about the tax, since it's still more profit than regular missions and they're after the resource drops.  I have had multiple people tell me they don't care about the tax since they still get a positive income of credits and are after the drops and EXP anyways.

 

Greetings Tenno,

 

Regarding your first question, no, I certainly do not assume that is the case. I have written at length about how this system works on other Forum posts. I was trying to be brief, it was 2 in the morning for me when I was writing that, and I didn't want to re-write another post adding to the massive wall of text I already dropped in this thread. I always feel kinda bad when I do that.

 

What the system basically consists of is a redistribution of wealth from those that do Dark Sector missions to those that can do rail runs quickly. I assume all the resources paid into the alliance coffers goes back out to Battle Pay at this time, because the only other thing you can spend those credits on are extra rooms in the Dojo, and those are all very inexpensive. The only beneficiaries of this system at present are those that are like you who take more out than they put in (no judgment there at all, just stating the case), and those that run the rails quickly. The third beneficiary of the system is the clan or alliance itself that has the prestige of owning a rail. The problem is that in all these cases the people who can't run things quickly like you, yet still running Dark Sector missions are getting taxed and retaining no benefit from that taxation.

 

As to your second part of the post, I agree those are the main ways alliances get funding. I think the major component of their income currently would be the third case of people not caring about the tax on the missions. This is purely speculation on my part, they could tell you the actual numbers for their people. The reason I just don't get it is that their members are willing to get less pay for running those missions under us than Eclipse is letting them keep. This just makes no sense to me at all. I would never charge my clan to run a rail that someone else was offering to them for free. I don't need to hold a rail for the sake of holding it if someone else is giving it to us for free. I mean, why hurt your own people like that?

 

Anyway, I hope this answered your questions as to my thinking on all this. I would be happy to respond if there was something in there i missed in your meaning.

 

 

Victory to you, Tenno.

 

-Salishaz

[OniDax]

Greetings Tenno,

Regarding your first question, no, I certainly do not assume that is the case. I have written at length about how this system works on other Forum posts. I was trying to be brief, it was 2 in the morning for me when I was writing that, and I didn't want to re-write another post adding to the massive wall of text I already dropped in this thread. I always feel kinda bad when I do that.

What the system basically consists of is a redistribution of wealth from those that do Dark Sector missions to those that can do rail runs quickly. I assume all the resources paid into the alliance coffers goes back out to Battle Pay at this time, because the only other thing you can spend those credits on are extra rooms in the Dojo, and those are all very inexpensive. The only beneficiaries of this system at present are those that are like you who take more out than they put in (no judgment there at all, just stating the case), and those that run the rails quickly. The third beneficiary of the system is the clan or alliance itself that has the prestige of owning a rail. The problem is that in all these cases the people who can't run things quickly like you, yet still running Dark Sector missions are getting taxed and retaining no benefit from that taxation.

As to your second part of the post, I agree those are the main ways alliances get funding. I think the major component of their income currently would be the third case of people not caring about the tax on the missions. This is purely speculation on my part, they could tell you the actual numbers for their people. The reason I just don't get it is that their members are willing to get less pay for running those missions under us than Eclipse is letting them keep. This just makes no sense to me at all. I would never charge my clan to run a rail that someone else was offering to them for free. I don't need to hold a rail for the sake of holding it if someone else is giving it to us for free. I mean, why hurt your own people like that?

Anyway, I hope this answered your questions as to my thinking on all this. I would be happy to respond if there was something in there i missed in your meaning.

Victory to you, Tenno.

-Salishaz

You've got my support and the support of my clan. There is no reasonable explanation for Eclipse attacking your rail other than them making a power grab. And your rail isn't the only one they're attacking. Players appeased them too much and now they're going on the offensive.

Edited April 28, 2014 by AntoineFlemming

[Soggehcookie]

No matter how you look at it, Eclipse justifying their 25% tax is bullS#&$.

 

They are invading a tax-free node that offers 23k credits per 5 minute run.

 

They have absolutely no business there, except its the most popular DS defense node and their 25% tax on that node is going to inflate their coffers much more.

[darksolgamer]

Greetings Tenno,

 

Regarding your first question, no, I certainly do not assume that is the case. I have written at length about how this system works on other Forum posts. I was trying to be brief, it was 2 in the morning for me when I was writing that, and I didn't want to re-write another post adding to the massive wall of text I already dropped in this thread. I always feel kinda bad when I do that.

 

What the system basically consists of is a redistribution of wealth from those that do Dark Sector missions to those that can do rail runs quickly. I assume all the resources paid into the alliance coffers goes back out to Battle Pay at this time, because the only other thing you can spend those credits on are extra rooms in the Dojo, and those are all very inexpensive. The only beneficiaries of this system at present are those that are like you who take more out than they put in (no judgment there at all, just stating the case), and those that run the rails quickly. The third beneficiary of the system is the clan or alliance itself that has the prestige of owning a rail. The problem is that in all these cases the people who can't run things quickly like you, yet still running Dark Sector missions are getting taxed and retaining no benefit from that taxation.

 

As to your second part of the post, I agree those are the main ways alliances get funding. I think the major component of their income currently would be the third case of people not caring about the tax on the missions. This is purely speculation on my part, they could tell you the actual numbers for their people. The reason I just don't get it is that their members are willing to get less pay for running those missions under us than Eclipse is letting them keep. This just makes no sense to me at all. I would never charge my clan to run a rail that someone else was offering to them for free. I don't need to hold a rail for the sake of holding it if someone else is giving it to us for free. I mean, why hurt your own people like that?

 

Anyway, I hope this answered your questions as to my thinking on all this. I would be happy to respond if there was something in there i missed in your meaning.

 

 

Victory to you, Tenno.

 

-Salishaz

You have my support. My clan and I have benefited greatly from your rail, and we will do what little we can to defend it.

[Rydian]

Greetings Tenno,

 

Regarding your first question, no, I certainly do not assume that is the case. I have written at length about how this system works on other Forum posts. I was trying to be brief, it was 2 in the morning for me when I was writing that, and I didn't want to re-write another post adding to the massive wall of text I already dropped in this thread. I always feel kinda bad when I do that.

 

What the system basically consists of is a redistribution of wealth from those that do Dark Sector missions to those that can do rail runs quickly. I assume all the resources paid into the alliance coffers goes back out to Battle Pay at this time, because the only other thing you can spend those credits on are extra rooms in the Dojo, and those are all very inexpensive. The only beneficiaries of this system at present are those that are like you who take more out than they put in (no judgment there at all, just stating the case), and those that run the rails quickly. The third beneficiary of the system is the clan or alliance itself that has the prestige of owning a rail. The problem is that in all these cases the people who can't run things quickly like you, yet still running Dark Sector missions are getting taxed and retaining no benefit from that taxation.

 

As to your second part of the post, I agree those are the main ways alliances get funding. I think the major component of their income currently would be the third case of people not caring about the tax on the missions. This is purely speculation on my part, they could tell you the actual numbers for their people. The reason I just don't get it is that their members are willing to get less pay for running those missions under us than Eclipse is letting them keep. This just makes no sense to me at all. I would never charge my clan to run a rail that someone else was offering to them for free. I don't need to hold a rail for the sake of holding it if someone else is giving it to us for free. I mean, why hurt your own people like that?

 

Anyway, I hope this answered your questions as to my thinking on all this. I would be happy to respond if there was something in there i missed in your meaning.

 

 

Victory to you, Tenno.

 

-Salishaz

The part I quoted seemed to indicate that you thought that everybody would be getting out as much as they put in via taxes and there would be no net change in credits for the players outside the clan, which is what I took issue with.

 

Thanks for the clarification that those are the main ways alliances/clans get credits to fund this stuff.

 

EDIT: Whatever shortcut key combo there is for "submit this post while typing it" needs to die, I swear.  Finished it now.

Edited April 28, 2014 by Rydian

[ZechsX18999]

Eclipse will earn a lot of money if they take Pluto. Currently the Pluto node (SoV) is the best alternative to the Ceres node (Eclipse), but if Eclipse owns both Ceres and Pluto, there will be nowhere else to go.

 

The lower planets don't reward much credits, so if you need credits you must play on Pluto or Ceres. They will finally have a real monopoly on the best credit nodes.

 

I never liked the Conflicts, but now I will be running against Eclipse even if SoV pays zero battle pay.

[Rydian]

Sechura is 23k.

 

And I have never had any boost active.

So assuming a full load of 23K per run, I'd make 17,250 per run of that and if there's a 25% tax on that (it's listed as 15% right now though) then Eclipse would get 5,750 credits.

 

Which is still below the pay rate for the conflicts I bother to run, so I still come out way on top in credit gain compared to Eclipse.  And as long as the tax rate is 49% or below, I will continue to earn more credits than Eclipse does per run, not even factoring in if I take any of their battle pay.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, I'm still just trying my best to crush the "taxes mean the players don't profit" myth that seems to perpetuate around here. :P

[Unicomplex]

In before Eclipse members white-knighting their black empire.

Also, be prepared for ignorant people who don't understand the difference between donation and tax to attack your last comment.

Ive been looking for a way to contact someone from shadows of vengeance to donate credits for battle pay so far 0 responses from their side if anyone here is from that clan please respond lets put a stop to this eclipse

[OniDax]

Their warlord is Salishaz. PM them.

[Kyte]

There's nothing greedy about wanting all of your credits! Damn, the idiocy of some people here... You want to know what's greedy? Eclipse attacking Pluto-Sechura merely because it's a 0% tax node.

 

Hey hey hey. It's not because it's a 0% node, it's because it's a valuable node. (Credits, XP bonus coverage, etc)

Edited April 28, 2014 by Kyte

[-CM-LittleSnow]

And the hate thread goes on and on and on.... Seriously guys... Action speaks louder than words

[OniDax]

Hey hey hey. It's not because it's a 0% node, it's because it's a valuable node. (Credits, better XP bonus coverage, etc)

 

Eclipse has enough nodes as it is.

[-----iseeu2-----]

There's more to it than that. You can claim eclipse is greedy and maybe there's an argument, but the same can be argued of people who demand all their credits when it's the clans/alliances who give them access to the dark sectors. Remember this, Eclipse -never- charges resource tax, many of their competitors that do charge Taxes do. So consider who is actually better for you carefully.

 

So go attack a rail that charges resource taxes instead of shamefully attacking one that charges neither credit nor resource tax because you're greedy and won't admit to said fact. Instead you side track arguments by using the 'other alliances are worse than us, we're good for you'. No, you're not fooling anyone here.

[Morcant]

So assuming a full load of 23K per run, I'd make 17,250 per run of that and if there's a 25% tax on that (it's listed as 15% right now though) then Eclipse would get 5,750 credits.

 

Which is still below the pay rate for the conflicts I bother to run, so I still come out way on top in credit gain compared to Eclipse.  And as long as the tax rate is 49% or below, I will continue to earn more credits than Eclipse does per run, not even factoring in if I take any of their battle pay.

 

Let me rephrase what you just said for clarity.

 

"As long as I get to keep the slimmest majority of the money I'm earning by actually running the mission, I'm cool with it.

I'm fine with taking 51% of my earnings while giving the rest to the tax authority in exchange for nothing of value."

 

Holy S#&$.

Edited April 28, 2014 by Morcant

[OniDax]

Let me rephrase what you just said for clarity.

 

 

 

 

Holy S#&$.

 

Finally, some logic (your post, not Rydian's)

[Salishaz]

Ive been looking for a way to contact someone from shadows of vengeance to donate credits for battle pay so far 0 responses from their side if anyone here is from that clan please respond lets put a stop to this eclipse

 

You honor us by your generosity, Tenno.

 

I am sorry we have not contacted you sooner, I have been sending private messages when we have had offers such as this.

 

Unfortunately at this time the only way for us to get credits from non-clan members is to tax them, and we will not do that.

 

The only way I know to gather resources from players is to have them join our clan and use the Treasury Kiosk to contribute. This is a very bulky process that requires people leaving their own clans temporarily, which is not a good idea I think.

 

Ultimately I truly believe that this conflict will not be won with Battle Pay. After spending roughly 20 million credits personally on the various rail related deployments and conflicts, I can say it takes a lot to move the percentage of a rail. The battle between the Shadows of Vengeance and Eclipse will not be won with battle pay from our side. They are simply too rich to compete with on those terms. Keep your hard earned credits and use them for your own ends. That is what we have been fighting for, and it is the best way to honor our efforts. If the community as a whole wants a tax free rail in Pluto, no faction in the game will be able to oppose them. If we in the Shadows of Vengeance get in the way and make this about us or battle pay rather than about the will of the community, we will only harm the community.

 

 

Voctory to you all, Tenno.

 

-Salishaz

[Rydian]

Let me rephrase what you just said for clarity.

 

 

Holy S#&$.

And let me quote the part that explains why I posted that, which was not an edit to the post and something you neglected to include.

 

Yes, I'm still just trying my best to crush the "taxes mean the players don't profit" myth that seems to perpetuate around here. :P

People who say that Eclipse taxes are making it so players don't profit are factually incorrect.  As long as untrue statements like that (and others that other people have tried to crush) keep flying around, this sort of debate will not come to an end.  People need to stop exaggerating and listening to lies.  People need to understand how these systems actually work and which numbers are actually involved here, or they won't understand why either side thinks and does what they're doing.

 

You seem to assume that just because I'm clarifying a point for one side, that I'm on that side.  That's not correct.  I'm not saying, nor have I ever said that I like Eclipse having high taxes.  I never said I don't want lower taxes.  I'm not part of Eclipse either.

 

I'm here to stamp out the lies and exaggerations, and it's the anti-eclipse people that happen to be saying the most mathematically untrue things. :P