Vauban Vortex Nerf

[VKhaun]

In one gamemode. In a handful of missions.

Not sure I'd call half the dark sectors and the most played game mode of all time 'a handful of missions' but yes. Something doesn't have to be OP everywhere and all the time to need adjusting and neither my suggestion or Sixty5's suggestion hurt his strength outside of where he is OP. In fact, mine makes him stronger.

[bwmuffinman]

Bladestorm depends. Scott keeps saying in devstreams that people should be moving away from damage and more towards utility as they go up. I'm fine with the press 4 and kill everything skills FOR LOWER LEVELS, because they help level frames and reduce grind/farm. If we get a bunch of new OP power strength mods then yes, Bladestorm and a lot of other IWIN buttons might need to go... rather see the power strength mods kept in check / nerfed than those abilities nerfed though.

You missed my point entirely. I was referring to the fact that all you do during Blade Storm is watch a animation for 5 or more seconds.

 

 

Undertow shouldn't do damage, but it's primary role is gathering enemies up so you can then AoE them. This creates gameplay and I'm cool with it. I actually made a thread when it was new about how safe it was and that it shouldn't do damage, but Tempest Barrage spamming knockdowns is actually worse than Vortex in infested defense. Not sure why that hasn't caught on yet really. With narrow minded reducing the area, you can bombard the pod and keep everything on the ground permanently doing 0 damage and taking a lot more damage than Vortex deals, and for a very low power cost. I would nerf that before I'd nerf Undertow and frankly I'd nerf that before I'd nerf Vortex.

So, if we limited you to one vortex and it made you invulnerable and immobile it would create gameplay? Yeah, I don't know about that.

Edited April 28, 2014 by bwmuffinman

[VKhaun]

You missed my point entirely. I was referring to the fact that all you do during Blade Storm is watch a animation for 5 or more seconds.

I didn't miss it, it was just silly. Watching an animation that is epic and only lasts 5sec is not the same thing as turning the whole match on the most popular game mode into a staring contest and dragging every enemy together for 30sec.

 

Overload makes you stand still and watch NO animation for a whole 2 seconds or so. Shuriken makes you stop and watch an animation for 0.1 second. These numbers don't compare to the old Snowglobe, Blessing or Vortex so the hyperbole is not an argument for or against any point.

 

 

 

So, if we limited you to one vortex and it made you invulnerable and immobile it would create gameplay? Yeah, I don't know about that.

Okay, this point I must have missed. I have not suggested that combination of features, or that Vortex should work like Undertow. I'm not seeing how or why the comparison is meaningful.

 

Just trolling?

Edited April 28, 2014 by VKhaun

[sandweed]

Make Infested have more paths to the pod and give small infested parkour skills so they don't all run on the ground, there Vortex balanced.

 

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[CryoClaw]

Vortex isn't even OP

Some people don't even know how to use booben in the first place

Plus it's range even with stretch mods ain't big

While trin trin can wipe and heal in a large area at the same time gee... Sound underpowered, right?

[DJ_Redwire]

Some people don't even know how to use booben in the first place

Plus [Vortex] range even with stretch mods ain't big

 

I personally have no issues with Vortex whatsoever - but the irony within these two statements is rather awe-inspiring.

[CryoClaw]

I personally have no issues with Vortex whatsoever - but the irony within these two statements is rather awe-inspiring.

Not sure what exactly you mean but think about it...

So many people said to me that booben is only good in ODD and that using him otherwise will hurt the team

I laugh at those people because his balls can be thrown away as we all know and this makes him very versatile

Plus have you ever put like 6 Tesla balls on a teammates who uses a melee build?

He will wreck EVERYTHING

So you could say that Tesla balls are also OP

[DJ_Redwire]

Not sure what exactly you mean but think about it...

 

I will show you what I mean.

 

You stated that many people do not know how to use Vauban correctly. This is evidently true.

 

You then followed that up with the statement that 'using range mods to increase Vortex's range doesn't make a big difference.' That's probably because applying range mods to Vortex has no effect whatsoever. http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Vortex

 

Make sense now?

[fatpig84]

Vortex had it's damage nerfed twice iirc.

Back then it can kill bosses since it hit like a truck or glitch them out.

Now it barely tickles anyone. Just leave it be.

 

 

Giving the infested ranged or flying mobs will let you balanced out Booben without destroying more of his skills.

Edited April 28, 2014 by fatpig84

[eruzet]

After RIP Bastille, so we going to RIP vortex ?? (yep i remember the vortex can instant kill on U8-U9 with ogris / torid, and this got nerfed)

and vauban itself can farm the parts only form RNG allert..

when the vortex nerf coming i think it will be RIP VAUBAN too ... 

[bwmuffinman]

       Look my point is give the control to the players. If they can sit in corner firing rockets into a vortex of doom then clearly there is one of two things wrong with your game. either, the AI needs to learn how to and have away of dealing with that obstacle or your game is too heavily based around farming and grind than actual gameplay which cause players to try and maximize that  farm. This game has both those problems. Vortex is not OP against three factions in the game ,so fix the one one faction that is lacking the most in diversity and Intelligence.

 

       My point about Undertow is that you described its primary purpose to be same as Vortex ,yet it removes all control from you to achieve a similar effect saying that "this creates gameplay" makes me question what you think good gameplay is ,and as for Snow Globe and Blessing, I would agree they broke the game completely then again wasn't their main use to survive through times when the games artificial difficulty started to kick in? If that is the case, wouldn't that be the games fault for not providing a real challenge instead of an artificial one? For example, lets say a group melee units see a Snow Globe ,so they call for Prosecutor to aid them then the Prosecutor sees the Snow Globe and immediately switches to his cold immunity aura and leads a charge into the Snow Globe.Also, a normal leader could choose to give his men an aura that give them punch through allowing them to shoot through the Globe causing you to have to take that leader out as quickly as possible in order to survive. Would Snow Globe broken then? I'm not going to try to defend blessing. Invulnerability is stupid ,but so is being one shot.

Edited April 28, 2014 by bwmuffinman

[VKhaun]

       Look my point is give the control to the players. If they can sit in corner firing rockets into a vortex of doom then clearly there is one of two things wrong with your game. either, the AI needs to learn how to and have away of dealing with that obstacle or your game is too heavily based around farming and grind than actual gameplay which cause players to try and maximize that  farm. This game has both those problems. Vortex is not OP against three factions in the game ,so fix the one one faction that is lacking the most in diversity and Intelligence.

 

Backwards IMO. No matter how fun the game is, people will ALSO want to be finding rewards. That means the standard meta will always be to use the most powerful farming stuff. If the most powerful farming stuff consists of boring, lazy abilities that turn the whole faction into a swirling ball of please-shoot-me then that's why you have a grind game. The players will never arbitrarily limit themselves and not use something that benefits how quickly they advance. 

 

You need to get rid of those snooze buttons and leave people no alternative but to play the game. Then they will play what they like, what they're good at, instead of what they find boring and grindy.

 

That it's not OP vs everything all the time is moot. 99% of the time you only see it on Infested defense. Not only does this prove it's a problem, it also means that if you fix infested defense by making the mobs counter it, the ability would then become one that you never see used at all. This is just a different kind of broken that will need the same kind of fix. Adding gameplay to the skill instead of leaving it as a snooze fest.

 

 

 

      My point about Undertow is that you described its primary purpose to be same as Vortex ,yet it removes all control from you to achieve a similar effect saying that "this creates gameplay" makes me question what you think good gameplay is

 

Don't know how to be any clearer. One makes you do less, move less and think less. The other makes you do more, move more and think more. Undertow had threads all over feedback calling it totally useless when it came out, because people hadn't figured out how to use it for anything yet. Most people still see it as single purpose.

Edited April 28, 2014 by VKhaun

[CryoClaw]

I will show you what I mean.

 

You stated that many people do not know how to use Vauban correctly. This is evidently true.

 

You then followed that up with the statement that 'using range mods to increase Vortex's range doesn't make a big difference.' That's probably because applying range mods to Vortex has no effect whatsoever. http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Vortex

 

Make sense now?

huh

I thought it did effect it, lol

[Ryunokage]

Correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't the glaring issue with Vauban's vortex how it's largely unaffected by the penalty on fleeting expertise?

 

Vortex is not a cheap skill, allowing vortex to suffer the duration penalty from slotting that mod would make the ability better balanced and send Vauban players scrambling for the power needed to maintain their rapidly dispersing vortexes.

[fatpig84]

Correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't the glaring issue with Vauban's vortex how it's largely unaffected by the penalty on fleeting expertise?

 

Vortex is not a cheap skill, allowing vortex to suffer the duration penalty from slotting that mod would make the ability better balanced and send Vauban players scrambling for the power needed to maintain their rapidly dispersing vortexes.

Wiki doesn't seem to agree.

But no confirmation.

 

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Vauban_(Warframe)

Edited April 28, 2014 by fatpig84

[Kaotyke]

I would nerf Vortex so that it only sucks in enemies during the first... third?... of it's duration. Still holds them for full duration, but stops sucking in new targets after the first third. That way it's still useful as the vortex grenade where you throw it at any number of targets, offensively or defensively, and suck them all in. Maybe make range effect the distance of the pull to compensate. But you wouldn't be able to just plop it down every minute or so and pwn anything and everything that tried to move through the area.

 

.... OP, this has all of my "wat?" then what it will do there? just be a pretty light? If you want to make Vortex balanced, take off the "Nerf" in the Title, it only bring haters, if you want it to be more balanced, maybe add momentum to it, like someone else said, and maybe reduce the range, but its a VORTEX, like a black hole, why should it only suck for a duration of time? It would only mean people would spam it more and in the end, the framerate would go all the way to hell.

[(PSN)Bobtm0]

As a Vauban main, I definitely see the issue with Vortex at somewhat limited times.  That being said the initial idea is (in my opinion) pretty much cringe-worthy.  I'd straight up drop Vortex from my build at that point if something of that sort were to happen as it already has a fairly short duration for what it does against most foes in most scenarios.

 

On the flip side though, Sixty5's idea of having Vortex carry its forward momentum is one that I find pretty much gnarly.  Granted one could, in theory, stand on a spot and throw a Vortex straight down to get a stationary Vortex, that would force a Vauban "from their perch" to do so.  Unless of course Vortex would be all spacey and reflect off of the floor and float into space, which would be hilarious, problematic but hilarious.

 

That all being said though, Vortex is... well system intensive compared to some abilities.  Implementing either the original thought or the momentum one may just promote heavier spamming of said skill which would have other negative side effects.

 

I really feel like it'd just be a more interesting change to attack the source problem (Infested AI, or really a lack thereof) first before modifying Vortex in some way.