I Know Hes A Beginner Frame But Come On

[tris1]

I would prefer there was no blast effect and as sharp said a impale effect

I also dont see why people think super jump is usefull even by adding a extra jump to it and its limited to certain scenari which in many places have small spaces or a low level ceiling. Yes you can use it in other places but why would I use that mod if can use a mod thats worth the slot and keep slash dash as a mobility power

[The_Sharp_Demonologist]

tris1 been wondering the same for quite some time.

 

Atholl That superjump chance is just copy pasting, Excal can be more tan that. I think the change i suggested pretty much cover what so many people think super jump is suposed to do (increasing mobility) and fitting whit Excal's melee focus.

[HexCaliber]

This thread is another example of community members not fully understanding the value of frame abilities, believing anything that does no damage to be worthless.

 

The primary points of excals value have already been covered and my repeating them serves no purpose, suffice to say, start looking at all frame abilities "YOU" consider to be worthless and examine them for what they give the player and the team as a whole. Radial blind is an aoe stun, aside from damage, slashdash can be used to get to into cover, or, more importantly instantly get into melee range without taking damage. Combine the two, use slashdash to get into range of a group of mobs then radial blind, leaving them all helpless. Further, while super jump is probably the most lacklustre of his abilities combine it with heavy impact and you have a low energy cost aoe stun.

 

This forum see's so many threads about x, y, and z being useless, but it is not the frames that are bad, it is a group of players, who, for whatever reason, cannot work out how to use those abilities to get the most from any particular frame.

Edited May 8, 2014 by HexCaliber

[(PSN)Bobtm0]

The enemies in Warframe can't lead very good at all, their aim speed is slow.  Super Jump may not do much, it's literally just a notable burst of upward momentum and that's it.  However due to how little it does, it retains a very, very low cost.

 

Using Super Jump is effectively a guaranteed way to dodge bullets out in the open, almost anywhere, in almost any tile.  Quit trying to split the focus by thinking "I can just walljump" and instead realize that Super Jump can be utilized with walljumps.  Seriously, Super Jump is fine aside that it should scale with +Duration instead of +Strength.  Walljumps have a slight delay at the beginning of their animation, as well as having innately strong directional momentum, and are inherently reliant on level structure.  Super Jump basically adds a great deal of flexibility to your movement, the change you suggested Sharp only serves to remove 100% of that flexibility, turning it into a laughably sub-par version of Volt's Speed buff.

 

In its current state, Super Jump gives one many additional options, it's fine.  I personally hate Slash Dash as a mobility skill, simply because, while it is highly useful, it is inherently more rigid in style and has a higher energy cost.

[The_Sharp_Demonologist]

(PS4)Bobtm0 My suggestion for super jump change will increase his stamina recharge meaning his much more efficient on melee combat (like Blocking more damage) and the increased Jump heigh also gives him a much more reliable mobility than the normal super jump does. So no its not a "sup-par" Volt speed, is a different buff that aid Excalibur's Melee focus.

 

If Super Jump is so usefull give me one reason where i must use Super Jump, only one.

[tris1]

This thread is another example of community members not fully understanding the value of frame abilities, believing anything that does no damage to be worthless.

 

The primary points of excals value have already been covered and my repeating them serves no purpose, suffice to say, start looking at all frame abilities "YOU" consider to be worthless and examine them for what they give the player and the team as a whole. Radial blind is an aoe stun, aside from damage, slashdash can be used to get to into cover, or, more importantly instantly get into melee range without taking damage. Combine the two, use slashdash to get into range of a group of mobs then radial blind, leaving them all helpless. Further, while super jump is probably the most lacklustre of his abilities combine it with heavy impact and you have a low energy cost aoe stun.

 

This forum see's so many threads about x, y, and z being useless, but it is not the frames that are bad, it is a group of players, who, for whatever reason, cannot work out how to use those abilities to get the most from any particular frame.

This thread is another example of community members not fully understanding the value of frame abilities, believing anything that does no damage to be worthless.

 

The primary points of excals value have already been covered and my repeating them serves no purpose, suffice to say, start looking at all frame abilities "YOU" consider to be worthless and examine them for what they give the player and the team as a whole. Radial blind is an aoe stun, aside from damage, slashdash can be used to get to into cover, or, more importantly instantly get into melee range without taking damage. Combine the two, use slashdash to get into range of a group of mobs then radial blind, leaving them all helpless. Further, while super jump is probably the most lacklustre of his abilities combine it with heavy impact and you have a low energy cost aoe stun.

 

This forum see's so many threads about x, y, and z being useless, but it is not the frames that are bad, it is a group of players, who, for whatever reason, cannot work out how to use those abilities to get the most from any particular frame.

Heavy impact does not always work and you have to reach a certain hieght to activate it

By what your saying is that no frames powers are in any need of fixes which also means there is no balance and brings into account why use that frame if this one can do the same as another but better

[HexCaliber]

Heavy impact does not always work and you have to reach a certain hieght to activate it

By what your saying is that no frames powers are in any need of fixes which also means there is no balance and brings into account why use that frame if this one can do the same as another but better

You could just as easily argue, why have multiple frames at all? They all bring different tools to the party, and suit a multitude of different play styles, nor does that mean x has to be as tough as y, and do as much damage as z to be considered effective.

 

It is one of four starter frames, and like all the starter frames can remain viable through all the content. For players that do not want to buy plat to buy slots to garage all the frames that is an important factor.

Edited May 8, 2014 by HexCaliber

[The_Sharp_Demonologist]

tris1 Exactly why do i have to drop a Heavy impact to make Super Jump useful if i can just us Zephy, she does exactly the same but better.

 

HexCaliber So your point is? i dont get it.

Edited May 8, 2014 by The_Sharp_Demonologist

[(PSN)Bobtm0]

I basically did give you an example already Sharp...  Super Jump has flexibility and allows for a greater freedom of movement because it lets you jump off of any surface at any time.

 

The thing about Super Jump is that it isn't a must, flexibility is never required in Warframe, but it definitely allows for creative freedom in problem solving.  Aka it's fun and reliably useful.

 

Your suggested change for the skill gives nothing of major value, while taking away everything the skill already does.  Our frames' natural jumping speed is just too low in terms of upward movement.  Super Jump is a cheap solution that I greatly enjoy.

 

Edit;  While Zephyr can do the impact without Heavy Impact, it costs notably more energy to do so, it's a tradeoff.

Edited May 8, 2014 by (PS4)Bobtm0

[tris1]

You could just as easily argue, why have multiple frames at all? They all bring different tools to the party, and suit a multitude of different play styles, nor does that mean x has to be as tough as y, and do as much damage as z to be considered effective.

Yes but thats the problem one of the problems with novas 4th and trinitys 4 they are considered overpowered but if we go by someone is just using it to its advantage. If brings in the unbalance its like this for weapons aswell

[The_Sharp_Demonologist]

(PS4)Bobtm0 SO youor saying that Super Jump is garbage and it was designed that way? and how you say Flexibility is not important in warframe? having flexibility is eveything in warframe, and when we are talking about a Melee focused frame i think that having a skill set that gives you more flexibility is almost (if not more) important tan in Caster frames since your in the middle of the fray.

My suggestion is to keep his vertiacal mobility but making it more reliable, not to mention the increased stamina recharge wil help him when fighting on melee.

[RealPandemonium]

Heavy Impact does poor damage, knocks down unreliably, and is generally not worth a mod slot.  Super Jump doesn't need Heavy Impact to be good.  I wouldn't mind if DE looked at Heavy Impact again to make it more useful, though.  

  

Seriously, Super Jump is fine aside that it should scale with +Duration instead of +Strength.  

I like the way it works now since Fleeting Expertise doesn't break it.  

Edited May 8, 2014 by RealPandemonium

[(PSN)Bobtm0]

Giving it more increases would increase its cost, thusly mitigating its constant availability as it stands now.  I never said it was garbage at all... so I'm not even sure there.

 

Also, flexibility isn't ever needed when I can hit Radial Blind and then casually stroll around with no chance of death.  That's not even the only one, there are a few things that can just put combat at a full stop and negate any need for further creative play, some being a bit more difficult of course.  The creativity and flexibility exist to add options and fun to combat.

 

Edit;  Yeah, that's definitely true RealPandemonium.  I'd probably like it slightly more as a duration change, but it works great with Strength anyways.

Edited May 8, 2014 by (PS4)Bobtm0

[The_Sharp_Demonologist]

RealPandemonium Why would you bother whit Superjump anyways.

 

(PS4)Bobtm0 Sure its cheap but again what you prefer a cheap useless skill that only launches yoou forward as if you had a rocked up your &#! or a skilll that not only increase the height of every jump for a sertain time but also increase your Stamina regeneration making you better at melee combat, like Excalibur is suposed to be based around.

 

It could cost 1 energy for all i care and i still wouldnt use it cause its a waste of mod space.

Edited May 8, 2014 by The_Sharp_Demonologist

[Vargras]

Vargras Tell me one place where i would need Super Jump over say a Wall Run and i will shut up about it. Only about Superjump

Void missions, specifically defense maps with balconies everywhere. Much faster to use Super Jump, as walls either don't exist near them or are too far away to be of any use.

 

And as was mentioned before, Super Jump scales with power strength. It's fine, as is the rest of his kit.

[The_Sharp_Demonologist]

Vargras Im sorry i have ran through Void missions and lifted every rock while i was looking for Argon Crystals. Countless runs where i have searched every single room from tier I to tier III and i havent seen a single place where i cannot reach either by sliding or connecting Wall runs between walls. Sure i got lazy after the 40th Run whit my Ember so i just used Valkyr a few times later to get to hidden áreas faster but is still the same places i could reach without ripline.

Edited May 8, 2014 by The_Sharp_Demonologist

[Vargras]

Vargras Im sorry i have ran through Void missions and lifted every rock while i was looking for Argon Crystals. Countless runs where i have searched every single room from tier I to tier III and i havent seen a single place where i cannot reach either by sliding or connecting Wall runs between walls. Sure i got lazy after the 40th Run whit my Ember so i just used Valkyr a few times later to get to hidden áreas faster but is still the same places i could reach without ripline.

You're not looking hard enough. Plenty of places in every single map that you could use Super Jump, and you haven't because "a wall run is good enough".

 

Once again, the issue is you not playing the frame to its full potential, not that the frame is bad.

[The_Sharp_Demonologist]

Vargras Can you show me a picture because i had to through the void so many freaking times to just get 3 Argon Crystals that i got every single tileset posibility on the void burned on my brain and i dont recall any place where my dear Ember could get

Edited May 8, 2014 by The_Sharp_Demonologist

[Vargras]

Vargras Can you show me a picture because i had to through the void so many freaking times to just get 3 Argon Crystals that i got every single tileset posibility on the void burned on my brain and i dont recall any place where my dear Ember could get

They aren't places that no one else can get. Just places that anyone with a movement ability (Super Jump, Ripline, Wormhole, etc.) can reach faster than those who can't.

[The_Sharp_Demonologist]

Vargras So i would use super jump (and other vertical moves for that matter) not because its a must but because its easier whit it. If we look at Super Jump for that kind of Vertical mobility (like i have been doing) its still unreliable compared to other movement abilities. Rip Line and Worm Hole are much more pressise and thanks to Zephir's light frame its much easier to move mid air once you use Divebomb's launch. Hell even Volt's speed is more reliable since the increased speed increases your parkour abilities (Longer Wall run, horizontal speed when jumping etc).

 

Not mentioning Bounce since i just got Booben and im yet to play around whit it.

 

Bottom line Super Jump is useless, Cheap or not is still not worth it.

[Vargras]

Bottom line Super Jump is useless, Cheap or not is still not worth it.

According to you.

 

Bounce relies on you (or someone else) putting down a pad, lining up the jump, and then jumping. Ripline and Wormhole both have setup and travel times. Zephyr is Zephyr (mobility is kind of her thing) so I won't go into it. Volt's Speed only affects horizontal movement and not vertical.

 

Super Jump is instantaneous. As soon as I hit it, I'm already in the air and going where I want to, no ifs, ands, or buts.

 

So tell me again, is Super Jump really useless, or are you just failing to use it properly? Because the more you post, the more I think it's the latter.

[RealPandemonium]

So tell me again, is Super Jump really useless, or are you just failing to use it properly? Because the more you post, the more I think it's the latter.

Don't waste your time.  At this point people have already gotten what they can out of this exchange.

[The_Sharp_Demonologist]

Vargras Whit Wormhole i can send my entire team to the other side of the room if i want to, Rip line can be used to literally "spider man" your way around, either to the sides, up or down, not to mention it also deals some respectable damage for a 1 skill that is used for mobility. Again i cant comment on bounce since i havent used it.

 

Super Jump is ONLY for a single large vertical launch wich you cant really control. Every other movement skill is far more presice and some of them even encourage imagination (Rip line) to freely move yourself around a room.

 

Am i the one crazy or are you the one who doesnt want to admit that Super Jump is worthless.

[(PSN)Bobtm0]

I can't quote... computers hate me for some reason.  Guess that's why I'm on PS4 though, anyways;

 

"Am I the one crazy >snip<" Sharp

 

Effectively yes on the Super Jump situation, seeing as I've chimed in a few times and so have others, so Vargras, can't possibly be the only one who sees what ways in which it can be effective.  Also, you really need to refrain from saying things like "refusing to admit that Super Jump is worthless" as its really a bad way to try and help your argument.

 

You see, here's the plain and simple thing, all mobility skills are completely optional, as are +Speed mods.  Any frame can reach any and all areas without those things.  However, I really beg you to make a topic and say that Rush is a useless mod and see how you effectively get told how wrong you are.

 

Also, just to jump onto another tangent;  Your suggested change for Radial Javelin strikes me as largely, if not completely redundant.  You're smart in trying to give it a CC attribute, however you're failing to realize that Radial Blind is all the CC Excalibur could ever ask for and it already promotes his melee niche.  Seeing as how you're obsessed with Stamina regen, why not change Excal's 4 to a personal buff which provides him with limitless stamina and some other melee related buffs for its duration?  That makes more sense than turning his 4 into a crappier version of his 2, and lets Excal keep his already very useful 3.

 

Super Jump is useful and unique for different reasons as compared to the other mobility skills in the game.  It is far more subtle than the others (except Bounce) but costs drastically less in return.  Its launch is actually pretty well controllable if you know what you're doing with it as well and it can be used upon touching a wall to reach higher areas incredibly swiftly for effectively no notable cost.  Two Riplines unmodded is 50 of your energy pool, that's nothing to scoff at.  Wormhole spam can run you dry ridiculously fast and it can be unwanted clutter to teammates if they don't need it, but if unranked to avoid that Wormhole poses no team benefit.  Not to mention its base cost of 75 energy.

 

Moral of the story;  Excal's 1, 2, and 3, are all in a good place.  His 4 is straight garbage however and needs looked at, so let's focus on something collectively worthwhile instead of going around endlessly on this merry-go-round.

[The_Sharp_Demonologist]

I can't quote... computers hate me for some reason.  Guess that's why I'm on PS4 though, anyways;

 

"Am I the one crazy >snip<" Sharp

 

Effectively yes on the Super Jump situation, seeing as I've chimed in a few times and so have others, so Vargras, can't possibly be the only one who sees what ways in which it can be effective.  Also, you really need to refrain from saying things like "refusing to admit that Super Jump is worthless" as its really a bad way to try and help your argument.

 

You see, here's the plain and simple thing, all mobility skills are completely optional, as are +Speed mods.  Any frame can reach any and all areas without those things.  However, I really beg you to make a topic and say that Rush is a useless mod and see how you effectively get told how wrong you are.

 

Also, just to jump onto another tangent;  Your suggested change for Radial Javelin strikes me as largely, if not completely redundant.  You're smart in trying to give it a CC attribute, however you're failing to realize that Radial Blind is all the CC Excalibur could ever ask for and it already promotes his melee niche.  Seeing as how you're obsessed with Stamina regen, why not change Excal's 4 to a personal buff which provides him with limitless stamina and some other melee related buffs for its duration?  That makes more sense than turning his 4 into a crappier version of his 2, and lets Excal keep his already very useful 3.

 

Super Jump is useful and unique for different reasons as compared to the other mobility skills in the game.  It is far more subtle than the others (except Bounce) but costs drastically less in return.  Its launch is actually pretty well controllable if you know what you're doing with it as well and it can be used upon touching a wall to reach higher areas incredibly swiftly for effectively no notable cost.  Two Riplines unmodded is 50 of your energy pool, that's nothing to scoff at.  Wormhole spam can run you dry ridiculously fast and it can be unwanted clutter to teammates if they don't need it, but if unranked to avoid that Wormhole poses no team benefit.  Not to mention its base cost of 75 energy.

 

Moral of the story;  Excal's 1, 2, and 3, are all in a good place.  His 4 is straight garbage however and needs looked at, so let's focus on something collectively worthwhile instead of going around endlessly on this merry-go-round.

Ok i may get smething different for his ult. Your right his Blind is all he needs.