Eclipse Goals/policy (As Understood By A Random Member)

[stax496]

can someone show me how to quote or multiqutoe? i had some very nice points on page 4 i wanna libk in

[Executor_Aeternus]

Clearly, not all alliance members were happy with our tax rate.
http://puu.sh/8uu84.png

Edited May 1, 2014 by LordGreymantle

[Retrikaethan]

can someone show me how to quote or multiqutoe? i had some very nice points on page 4 i wanna libk in

you click multiquote on the quoute you wish to quoute. click them all and there ought to be a new button on the lower right hand side of the screen that will put them all into the reply box

[Hadronox]

It doesnt matter how many/where/when dark sectors runs have been made nor even if the tax is consistent. what we need to know is that income (guild vault changes - contributions proven via screenshots sent to respective clan treasurers and then shown to public) - Expenses (rail upkeep + battlepay wages) = 0 credits.

this is all given the fact that battlepay has remained consistent through the course of any conflict unlike what tw has done. Does it mean tw alliance has been having its leaders take money out of the clan?

 

Just a quick note. What would TW Alliance or any other alliance or clan want with hoarding credit? There are no avenues to spend it on, other than maybe "Strun" shotguns and "Bratons" or some crap like that. Or I am missing something here?

[tgipier]

I did not start this thread, and I did not apologize for or defend anyone lol. I care less about PR and none of my posts were about that. I simply said the word "monopoly" does not apply to Dark Sectors because there is no monopoly of anything. And, I said that imo there is no "defend 0% tax" principle.

Did you even read anything I wrote or do you just like to throw wild accusations around? Just stop that asinine attitude please. Also, why so mad about a game?

Monopoly as in holding the area with bonus exp and resources farming? Yeah I call that a monopoly on the planet at least.

[tgipier]

Just a quick note. What would TW Alliance or any other alliance or clan want with hoarding credit? There are no avenues to spend it on, other than maybe "Strun" shotguns and "Bratons" or some crap like that. Or I am missing something here?

Mod fusioning trading etc.

[stax496]

ty you can use credits to fuse similar polarity mods (e.g. serration)

[Hadronox]

i heard about that. F*** them too, im not interested in determining their current validity, i will avoid their nodes regardless of it, i simply wanted to throw a bit of me into this. fact of the matter is, only the guy who was assigning the battlepays at the time could have said whether or not he/she was doing it intentionally or not and obviously, unless the person in question is stupidly honest or if it is actually the case, they will say they did not do it intentionally. i came here to post as i do other threads, it popped up at the surface. if i saw a TW rage thread id be posting there instead of here. eclipse is simply the poster child for this particular abuse, legitimately or not.

 

oh. an addendum, i already know they practiced something similar to abusing this issue early on for sinai, jupiter since i was one of those people they didnt pay (not that the other side was paying either. some russian clan i can't remember the name of)

 

Aren't you the same guy from the other post accusing everyone of cheating and fraud?

 

The system was explained to you, and graphs were shown to you, and you still want to delude yourself ... lol

 

I told you, send a support ticket to DE.

[stax496]

if you could just prove using my equation u make no profits then everything will b sweet

[Retrikaethan]

Aren't you the same guy from the other post accusing everyone of cheating and fraud?

 

The system was explained to you, and graphs were shown to you, and you still want to delude yourself ... lol

 

I told you, send a support ticket to DE.

actually this time im here out of boredom, squig? was his name i think? was nice enough to link me the event in question and hoooo boy does it tell me a lot: http://deathsnacks.com/wf/bl_history.html#5348d22406c56fa93d7b242a_1397598659

 

as for what you actually said, you didn't really read any of my posts there if that's what you think of me.

[Squig]

oh goodie! it did exist. that S#&$ right there. that's the S#&$ that's not ok. how do we fix it.

As I've commented before(in your previous thread.) The best way for DE to allow us to battle competitively without screwing people from getting paid would be to allow the updating of battlepay while tickets remain in such a way that you may only increase the amount of tickets and the amount of pay, with your vault needing to supply the difference in the credit total from what is presently "consumed" and to be consumed with the updated pay.

The short is allow us to add new tickets as well as increase the battlepay amount but not allow decreasing without running out of tickets.

EDIT: For the record Eclipse is nearly as pissed off as you were that people weren't getting paid due to the setup of the system because pissed off people don't run for us and are liable to turn around and want to hurt us for it by running against us.

Edited May 1, 2014 by Squig

[Executor_Aeternus]

I'm not quite how else to say this, but I'll try again:
No clan, no member of the alliance, nor the alliance itself can allot the credits or materials for personal use. There's literally no point in acquiring them except for use in Dark Sectors. Honestly, it makes the system a bit pointless as it stands, as the alliances in question are just fighting for the ability to host the rail since you don't actually get anything out of it. Hopefully, eventually, they add additional content. As it stands though, the only reason to tax is to ensure the ability to pay for damages and provide battlepay as incentive since rail defense runs are boring and crappy to do.

[Hadronox]

Monopoly as in holding the area with bonus exp and resources farming? Yeah I call that a monopoly on the planet at least.

As long as there are equal or better avenues of making exp and resources, then there is no monopoly. And the best place to make credits is still void missions.

Mod fusioning trading etc.

ty you can use credits to fuse similar polarity mods (e.g. serration)

So the "supposed" hoarded money is going toward mod fusion projects? I see. Edited May 1, 2014 by Hadronox

[stax496]

sure y not

[stax496]

void missions require keys, many of which are found in dark sectors

[Retrikaethan]

As I've commented before(in your previous thread.) The best way for DE to allow us to battle competitively without screwing people from getting paid would be to allow the updating of battlepay while tickets remain in such a way that you may only increase the amount of tickets and the amount of pay, with your vault needing to supply the difference in the credit total from what is presently "consumed" and to be consumed with the updated pay.

The short is allow us to add new tickets as well as increase the battlepay amount but not allow decreasing without running out of tickets.

EDIT: For the record Eclipse is nearly as &!$$ed off as you were that people weren't getting paid due to the setup of the system because &!$$ed off people don't run for us and are liable to turn around and want to hurt us for it by running against us.

i'd like to set it straight that that other thread wasn't mine, i was simply the most active voice on my particular side of the issue. (it was a lot of fun actually, glad it didn't turn into mud slinging til much later heheh)

 

how bout rather than assigning tickets in advance, when the appropriate number of people, assume 40 tickets are available so 10 total teams of 4 players, were inside the mission, it would disallow people to enter for the runs that would exceed those 40 tickets? could get murky but a lot less people would be screwed over without changing the system too much.

 

glad eclipse can display some level of empathy on this issue.

 

I'm not quite how else to say this, but I'll try again:

No clan, no member of the alliance, nor the alliance itself can allot the credits or materials for personal use. There's literally no point in acquiring them except for use in Dark Sectors. Honestly, it makes the system a bit pointless as it stands, as the alliances in question are just fighting for the ability to host the rail since you don't actually get anything out of it. Hopefully, eventually, they add additional content. As it stands though, the only reason to tax is to ensure the ability to pay for damages and provide battlepay as incentive since rail defense runs are boring and crappy to do.

they may give clans/alliances alternate ways to use the money/resources in the future. likely in conjunction with the faction-factions they had talked about before. it would also be nice to be able to offer resources as a battlepay.

[Squig]

i'd like to set it straight that that other thread wasn't mine, i was simply the most active voice on my particular side of the issue. (it was a lot of fun actually, glad it didn't turn into mud slinging til much later heheh)

 

how bout rather than assigning tickets in advance, when the appropriate number of people, assume 40 tickets are available so 10 total teams of 4 players, were inside the mission, it would disallow people to enter for the runs that would exceed those 40 tickets? could get murky but a lot less people would be screwed over without changing the system too much.

 

glad eclipse can display some level of empathy on this issue.

 

they may give clans/alliances alternate ways to use the money/resources in the future. likely in conjunction with the faction-factions they had talked about before. it would also be nice to be able to offer resources as a battlepay.

Assigning tickets in advance opens new issues as well though. In that then when someone quits/abandons you have to now somehow un-assign it from them and toss it back in the pile meaning that it would become more troublesome to update pay since like now you'd have to wait for all tickets not simply to be assigned but claimed at exit. So odds are you'de end up with longer periods of "No battlepay" Whereas allowing updating battlepay quantity/quality dynamically lets you (if you're benevolent) update the pay to make absolutely positive nobody goes un payed.

 

Long short, assigning tickets at entrance creates new issues and once all tickets are assigned what happens? People enter for Zero?

[Executor_Aeternus]

Yeah, Retrikaethan, we're actually worried about that. If alliances are ever able to use the money to spend on members or themselves, then I and other members are worried idiots across the system are going to spam-hike up their tax rates hoping they can make enough money to do what they want before they get taken down. We're still hoping some other alliances manage to hold onto a solid share of nodes as well, that way we can at least ensure the safety of a moderate amount of nodes.

Regarding your idea for assigning tickers in advances, yeah - that's how we're hoping DE will fix it. If we assign, say, 1k tickets at 40k each, (that alone is 40mil in ticket costs, and we're known for much higher pays than even that), then only those first 1000 players get the 40k. Any players still in-mission when tickets run out don't get paid for their effort, which sucks. It also seriously hurts us, too - the last thing we want is to not adequately give back to the community and repay our valued supporters. If the money was immediately set aside the second a player entered a mission, it would be great since they'd be guaranteed the pay when they completed it.

 

Assigning tickets in advance opens new issues as well though. In that then when someone quits/abandons you have to now somehow un-assign it from them and toss it back in the pile meaning that it would become more troublesome to update pay since like now you'd have to wait for all tickets not simply to be assigned but claimed at exit. So odds are you'de end up with longer periods of "No battlepay" Whereas allowing updating battlepay quantity/quality dynamically lets you (if you're benevolent) update the pay to make absolutely positive nobody goes un payed.

 

Long short, assigning tickets at entrance creates new issues and once all tickets are assigned what happens? People enter for Zero?

My suggestion for a solution is to be able to queue up battle pay ticket amounts and rates, so the second one runs out it draws from the next pile.

Edited May 1, 2014 by LordGreymantle

[Retrikaethan]

Assigning tickets in advance opens new issues as well though. In that then when someone quits/abandons you have to now somehow un-assign it from them and toss it back in the pile meaning that it would become more troublesome to update pay since like now you'd have to wait for all tickets not simply to be assigned but claimed at exit. So odds are you'de end up with longer periods of "No battlepay" Whereas allowing updating battlepay quantity/quality dynamically lets you (if you're benevolent) update the pay to make absolutely positive nobody goes un payed.

 

Long short, assigning tickets at entrance creates new issues and once all tickets are assigned what happens? People enter for Zero?

disallow them from entering, meaning they can't do it at all until the tickets are all spent assuming they're all "on hold", as it were. there's also forcing the clan to pay for all the runs required to destroy the other rail. so instead of a bunch of payouts that may or may not be payable, you have solid money flowing out. this would still allow for bidding later in the conflict since less runs would need to be paid for total. the overbearing downside is that up and coming clans wouldn't stand a chance against the already deep seated.

[Executor_Aeternus]

disallow them from entering, meaning they can't do it at all until the tickets are all spent assuming they're all "on hold", as it were. there's also forcing the clan to pay for all the runs required to destroy the other rail. so instead of a bunch of payouts that may or may not be payable, you have solid money flowing out. this would still allow for bidding later in the conflict since less runs would need to be paid for total. the overbearing downside is that up and coming clans wouldn't stand a chance against the already deep seated.

That's a good point - and yeah, no matter how good of a job we hope to do in defending the nodes, keeping them open, and finding fair rates across our nodes, I admit we have an advantage in player dedication (although probably not finances too much, given how much we pay back and how many nodes we're paying for). Still, there's probably still an advantage to be had there since we tend to just focus battlepay on a few nodes at a time to smash our nodes back open to the public. Anything that gives us and other long-sitting clans an advantage needs to be looked over carefully. This isn't about our e-peen, this is about the future of the game content and it needs to be well-balanced.

On that note, I'm probably going to take a nap. At nearly 4am, it's about time I rest. Good luck Tenno, may your sword stay sharp and your aim stay true.

[Yurilica]

I am a member of the Alliance Eclipse, and I've seen quite a few things said here (and I thank you all for the input, both positive and negative. It does help us understand the player-base and helps us understand how we might be able to better adjust to the community's needs.) I'm not some high-ranking official (just a regular dude in a constituent clan) and I'm not too active in posting on the forums, having long been a lurker, but I feel that it might be useful to simply state some things that we hold to and to clear up some issues that are probably of concern.

 

/cut the rest for readibility

 

How about Eclipse members get over themselves?

 

-You do not perform a service to the community. Clans like Ghost Bear and Shadows of Vengeance do with 0% taxes. They are living proof that Eclipse is delusional. Others have already said these things before:

-Repairing a rail is pocket change, to fully fix one you need exactly 250000 credits, which a single player can farm in an hour on Sechura - Pluto without any boosters.

-There is no need to "give back" people their credits as battle pay if one doesn't take them in the first place.

-Eclipse is the ONLY alliance to hold 25% tax on ALL their rails. Contrary to what you think, 25% is a lot, especially for players using credit boosters.

-You tax non-members 25% AND some of your nodes frequently have 60% tax for your own members, with others ranging from 0% to 15% tax

-Resource tax is not inherently bad if it's a really low rate, like 5%. No one cares if they take 50 Rubedo from the 1000 players earned in a mission or some other common resource. Rates like that are also too low to take away any rare resources like Orokin Cells.

-All your claims, the justifications you post here have already been refuted as pointless

-Some(a majority, as i found out later on) of your own members fought against you in the conflict for Sechura - Pluto, i think that says enough(and before an Eclipse officer asks who they were again, they can sod off, there will be no snitching)

 

Eclipse is an alliance of over 30 individual clans. A lot of their own members do not give a damn about their politics and just want to farm stuff when they need it. Hence the reason for internal resistance on Sechura - Pluto.

A lot of their own members are not satisfied with the taxing system. And a lot of them are getting tired of being displayed as the bad guys of the system thanks to the decisions of their leadership.

 

 

Also, you're a random, non-officer member making a blanket statement for an entire alliance of 30 clans. Consider how foolish that is.

[Blatantfool]

 I don't really care what Eclipse taxes or whatever. That isn't important to me.

 

 I just want to see action in Dark Sectors and I want to be able to see the community enjoying it. Right now Eclipse looks like a bad guy and that has some people fired up and is causing motion in the Dark Sectors. Good. Eclipse is helping in that sense then. I mean they aren't actually doing anything bad, just taxing. The community is just all up in arms about it. Whatever. No big deal.

 

 This is pretty much why I've been telling anyone who has that "I wish someone would stop Eclipse" attitude that they need to get up and do it themselves. It is one of those situations summed up with the phrase:

 

 "Try and have a go if you think you're hard enough."

 

 

 The only sense in which Eclipse could be considered 'evil' is that they're a big Alliance and they don't have a ton of presence yet. No big deal. Time will tell, right? All Eclipse has to do is keep doing well and they'll be fine.

Edited May 1, 2014 by Blatantfool
Fixed error in wording. Thanks Gravefire.

[Squig]

How about Eclipse members get over themselves?

 

-You do not perform a service to the community. Clans like Ghost Bear and Shadows of Vengeance do with 0% taxes. They are living proof that Eclipse is delusional. Others have already said these things before:

-Repairing a rail is pocket change, to fully fix one you need exactly 250000 credits, which a single player can farm in an hour on Sechura - Pluto without any boosters.

-There is no need to "give back" people their credits as battle pay if one doesn't take them in the first place.

-Eclipse is the ONLY alliance to hold 25% tax on ALL their rails. Contrary to what you think, 25% is a lot, especially for players using credit boosters.

-You tax non-members 25% AND some of your nodes frequently have 60% tax for your own members, with others ranging from 0% to 15% tax

-Resource tax is not inherently bad if it's a really low rate, like 5%. No one cares if they take 50 Rubedo from the 1000 players earned in a mission or some other common resource. Rates like that are also too low to take away any rare resources like Orokin Cells.

-All your claims, the justifications you post here have already been refuted as pointless

-Some(a majority, as i found out later on) of your own members fought against you in the conflict for Sechura - Pluto, i think that says enough(and before an Eclipse officer asks who they were again, they can sod off, there will be no snitching)

 

Eclipse is an alliance of over 30 individual clans. A lot of their own members do not give a damn about their politics and just want to farm stuff when they need it. Hence the reason for internal resistance on Sechura - Pluto.

A lot of their own members are not satisfied with the taxing system. And a lot of them are getting tired of being displayed as the bad guys of the system thanks to the decisions of their leadership.

 

 

Also, you're a random, non-officer member making a blanket statement for an entire alliance of 30 clans. Consider how foolish that is.

It may come as a shock but it's entirely plausible for a non officer/random playing in an alliance having an idea of what the leaderships intent is.  As for the claim that a majority of our own alliance fought -for- Sechura on the defender side extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

[TheBlueMagician]

So much butthurt in this thread.

 

I like Eclipse because they have good battle pay. I haven't seen a single other Alliance offer a decent reward for supporting them, for pretty much the same benefit as having Eclipse control the rails from what I can tell. And each time I've seen an Eclipse BP reward, I've gotten it once or twice, so I haven't seen any shifty tactics there (that a lot of people cry about).

 

Overall, I don't know a whole lot about the clan/Alliance politics, but from this thread alone it seems like a massive pissing contest, with everyone not in Eclipse circle-jerking about how unfair losing is.

[-CM-LittleSnow]

If you cared about 'keeping nodes open' you wouldn't attack, ever, because that just contributes to the problem of nodes being closed.  You do, ergo this argument is moot.

 

1) People who attacks us do not get flamed. Wow thats nice. Just because we own 8 rails we get flamed.

 

2) Was there ever a rule stating that any alliance who owns more than 1 rail not allowed to attack?

 

i accuse them of abusing this because of the repeated and rapid loss of battle pay. if they wanted to give us money, they would have allotted more total runs. therefore, i must assume everyone utilizing the practice does so knowing many of their supporters won't get paid. of course, they might not be doing this anymore. i really don't care enough to confirm or deny it at this point since i already know they did it early on.

 

1) If you are slow in every single run, too bad dude.

2) I am pretty sure u haven been running the rails so do not assume that everyone is not getting their battlepay. You are no one to speak for the whole community.