Removing Stat Helms Gives Older Players Yet Another Advantage

[Reshiram9001]

I've got an idea that just might work:

 

Put two versions of the helmet on the Market.

 

I.E. Phoenix Helmet

 

Stat-changing: 75 plat

 

Cosmetic: 60-70 plat

 

If you want the stats, you need the plat

[Flamed]

Trust me.....new players aren't missin much with these stats

Nope. That extra speed boost is broken on Rhino. They would be missing out on the 25% speed boost.

 

If they aren't missing out on these stats, then why not remove all the stats if its not too much?

[Tymerc]

Nope. That extra speed boost is broken on Rhino. They would be missing out on the 25% speed boost.

 

If they aren't missing out on these stats, then why not remove all the stats if its not too much?

1. Rhino Prime can be used as he has a higher sprinting speed. 2. There's the sprint boost aura. 3. There's the rush mod.

There's more than enough for "new" players.

Edited May 4, 2014 by Tymerc

[Morec0]

I'd rather see option 2 put in myself. I want the stats COMPLETELY gone so I never feel like I'm hurting myself by not using them. Still, to know I'll be able to use WHATEVER helm I want to WITHOUT the negative effects is A-Okay with me!

 

Even if I DO have to farm them all over again...

[Kiaru]

1. Rhino Prime can be used as he has a higher sprinting speed. 2. There's the sprint boost aura. 3. There's the rush mod.

There's more than enough for "new" players.

All of those stack with the 25% move speed on the helm. New players will forever be 25% move speed behind. Wasting an aura and mod slot to attempt to make up for that 25% move speed is never a good idea. You get 25% move speed for free, and give up >>NOTHING<< if you own the helmet.

[Tymerc]

All of those stack with the 25% move speed on the helm. New players will forever be 25% move speed behind. Wasting an aura and mod slot to attempt to make up for that 25% move speed is never a good idea. You get 25% move speed for free, and give up >>NOTHING<< if you own the helmet.

Tough luck. Some things should be exclusive. 

[DeadlyFred]

Tough luck. Some things should be exclusive. 

Not things like that. This game has enough engineered exclusive content without having constant odds and ends left behind by proxy from inconsistent development. If something is bad for the game, then bloody well take it out, period. Otherwise, don't. Pretty simple.

[Tymerc]

Not things like that. This game has enough engineered exclusive content without having constant odds and ends left behind by proxy from inconsistent development. If something is bad for the game, then bloody well take it out, period. Otherwise, don't. Pretty simple.

Look pal, the helmets are still currently in game. It's your own fault if you don't get one now. The stats will continue to be there regardless of how you feel about it.

[DeadlyFred]

Look pal, the helmets are still currently in game. It's your own fault if you don't get one now. The stats will continue to be there regardless of how you feel about it.

I'm obviously not the only one, pal. I already have pretty much all of the Arcane helmets, its not a matter of entitlement. It's a matter of common sense and good game development. If the stats are being removed because DE has decided they don't make sense and that they don't want them there then why leave existing helms statted? It doesn't make sense from a design standpoint and it's unfair to anyone who might come later. 

Are you going to lower the platinum price on the helms now that they don't serve a function beyond cosmetics now?

Half-measures are never the way to go with things. When you make a decision on something you execute that decision fully, not halfway. *I* am not the only one who feels this way. You are more than welcome to your accommodating indifference on the matter.

Lets say the next time they change warframe stats... the ones currently built are unaffected but new ones are... does that make sense, is that fair? Weapons? No. It doesn't make sense.

Edited May 4, 2014 by DeadlyFred

[Tymerc]

I'm not reading that. There's nothing wrong with rewarding people who helped the game go from it's birth to where it is now with exclusive items.

[(PSN)starlyes]

Lol cry babies.....either play the alerts or get a job. I did and do both. Life aint fair, grow up kid

[(PSN)Hiero_Glyph]

New-ish PS4 player here but I have almost all of the helmets collected and am only missing one with a stat bonus (and an inferior one at that).  That being said this change only makes the already horrid "new player experience" even worse.  I have never seen a developer so continually punish new players on a consistent basis (for the record, EVE punishes everyone equally).  I am all for balance, so why not actually balance the helmet stats?

 

Think about it, if the base helmets have +5% health/shields, and the alternates provided +10% energy, - 5% efficiency, or  +10% sprint speed, - 10% stamina then there would be a balance for every helmet.  Besides, if DE removes the stats for all future helmets then frames like Nyx have a HUGE advantage as they can achieve 75% efficiency without the use of Streamline, freeing up a mod slot.

 

In the end the helmet stats need to be balanced, not removed, and the base helmets need a very minor positive effects added to make them worth using as well.

[DeadlyFred]

I'm not reading that. There's nothing wrong with rewarding people who helped the game go from it's birth to where it is now with exclusive items.

What if its someone who has never spent a dime on Warframe and got all the helms through alerts? That's not helping the game. What helps games develop is useful, constructive feedback and intelligent design choices. Leaving broken crap in because you're afraid to offend people by taking it out (presumably) isn't intelligent design choice. Again, you may as well be saying to allow people to keep weapons which have been nerf-balanced simply because "they were there first". 

I've spent money on the game. I've run alerts. I'm perfectly OK with them deciding that statted helms are out in favor of a more functional tweak system down the road. Why would you not be, because having stuff other people don't makes you feel better about yourself? I'm not sure why you'd be against changes which will, overall, improve the game.

Edited May 5, 2014 by DeadlyFred

[Shaznaught]

#firstworldproblems

[Tymerc]

What if its someone who has never spent a dime on Warframe and got all the helms through alerts? That's not helping the game. What helps games develop is useful, constructive feedback and intelligent design choices. Leaving broken crap in because you're afraid to offend people by taking it out (presumably) isn't intelligent design choice. Again, you may as well be saying to allow people to keep weapons which have been nerf-balanced simply because "they were there first". 

I've spent money on the game. I've run alerts. I'm perfectly OK with them deciding that statted helms are out in favor of a more functional tweak system down the road. Why would you not be, because having stuff other people don't makes you feel better about yourself? I'm not sure why you'd be against changes which will, overall, improve the game.

Now you're putting words in my mouth. When did I say it makes me feel good that I have stuff others don't? There's quite a bit of exclusive content I don't have because I missed it, which I am okay with. The stats are staying regardless of how you feel about it. This is the last reply i'll waste on you. 

Edited May 5, 2014 by Tymerc

[Azawarau]

My view on it is

 

Stat helmets are being removed for whatever reason

 

I dont like it but thats how it is

 

Future players will have a disadvantage

 

 Not much can be done for now

 

Itd be better to make suggestions on how to fix the issue rather than argue about whether or not the helmet is advantageous or not

[Firefly9715]

My view on it is

 

Stat helmets are being removed for whatever reason

 

I dont like it but thats how it is

 

Future players will have a disadvantage

 

 Not much can be done for now

 

Itd be better to make suggestions on how to fix the issue rather than argue about whether or not the helmet is advantageous or not

Listen to this guy he knows what hes talking about. You arguing about it wont change anything.

[zavienh5]

I have a interesting idea about this helmet stat thing that can work for everyone

I was thinking that the helmets can have like their own rank to like max rank 15 or something.  Once maxed, the player can use some kind of Forma thingy that resets the helmet rank and you can give it a stat boost, like +5 speed.  Just like how you polarize a weapon or warframe and resets their rank but gives them a extra polarity slot.

When the helmet is maxed again, you can "Forma" it again and increase the stat or decrease it with negatives over again with a max of "polarizing" it 3 times.

That would make your warframe customization even more interesting.

(Just dont make the "Forma" thingy to hard to farm and create for the helmet stats :P )

[Ribboz]

No it isn't. By a long shot.

Do you have an explanation why making it optional isn't the best option? And what would be better?

[GottaGoFast]

Older players have an advantage because they've played longer. Remove them from the game completely.

[AuroraSonicBoom]

Older players have an advantage because they've played longer. Remove them from the game completely.

 

Ideally, yes, but I think DE(or better, Scott and Steve) is afraid of the backlash. Additionally, some of those buffs severly imbalance the drawbacks of some frames and makes them imba combared to others, which is an issue that needs solving. So with that in mind, the next best compromise apart from a complete removal would be the seperation of stat boost into a new upgrade slot, and the unlocking these stat boosts to allow every frame to use them. Turning those stat boosts into a talisman system would allow DE to release those exact stats to everybody in the form of items players can farm for while the unlocking of frame specitif stat boosts would restore some of the grave imbalances between frames that were introduced with the stat boosts. For instance, if everybody could slot a vanguard talisman the issue of Rhino's speed would be defused as now half of the frames are now able to zip past him without, putting him back into the midfield instead of the very top.

 

The only issue to that solution would be a general surge in power creep across all frames, which is definitely something to be avoided if possible, but IMO a balanced experience and equal opportunity for every player trumps the blanket increase in power/speed/efficiency. Plus there's always a chance for DE to rebalance the enemies or environmental hazards to make decrease the stats of our frames in the future.

[FateZero]

Do you have an explanation why making it optional isn't the best option? And what would be better?

Because it would still mean stats are associated with helms. when they are trying to phase them out of the game.

Or perhaps having stats on cosmetics isn't part of their vision of the game anymore? It was at the start, but it changed when they started to only release statless helms. Hence they don't want stats to be a part of comestic items but don't want to punish existing players, just like they didn't force a restart on everyone when OB was release, they gave everyone the option to restart and they are giving everyone the option to pick up these helms before they are gone.

 

Since the game is in beta, what they are going to do is better for the game in the long run, phase them out. Staying with the game should be rewarded and we have by event weapons, event mods, event badges, and now arcane helms.

[DeadlyFred]

But reward weapons and mods are balanced according to need within the game. If helm stats are being removed for balance, why shouldn't that apply to any helm already in existence? Core of the argument is right there. They're leaving them in because they don't want to deal with potential backlash but in the process completely nullifying their reason for removing them at all because a large part of the playerbase already has them. So they are leaving in something which they admit doesn't fit/is imbalanced just to avoid making waves in a game which is in beta.

Again I say, this is the problem inherent with monetizing incomplete content.

Edited May 5, 2014 by DeadlyFred

[BizarreFetalChimpanzee]

Really, they should do what I have seen suggested time and time again by multiple players and being widely accepted by players, which is basically to remove the stats from helmets entirely, turn those into mods, and then these mods go into a special helmet slot that does not take away mod points. This makes it where the players can keep the helmets purely cosmetic if they choose to do so, but can also further specialize builds if they choose that as well.

[G33ke]

It's such a shame it had to work out this way. Unlike the majority of the community who frequently browses these forums, I don't have every helmet, because I haven't been playing for a long time. It seriously bothers me that there are some things that I could miss just because I wasn't here earlier. I understand this argument for exclusivity for founders, they funded the game and deserved it, but the people who got the event mods and now, these helmets, didn't do anything to earn them aside from playing the game at a certain time, which really is a slap in the face for everyone else, considering almost the whole point of the game is collecting. I know for a fact that there is zero possible way I could get MR16, but there are people who have it, and it doesn't feel fair. Removing the codex placeholder spots for these event weapons unless you have them is a good start, but I honestly won't feel right about it until they stop giving mastery.

 

Now with these helmets, it just feels like the wrong way of handling it. I can understand the notion of removing the stats, but all you're really doing is preventing new players from using it. Now there are people with a distinct advantage over everyone else. They can still abuse these powers as much as they like - these won't be fixed.

 

 

It's one thing to have exclusives like Excalibur Prime, who's only difference is cosmetic, or lato/skana prime, which are hardly even good enough to be viable at late levels, for people who paid to help fund the game into what it is today. It's another entirely to sever the community into two groups of people - old "elitist" players with distinct advantages, and newer "noob" players who can't have them. Luckily the event mods can be traded and possibly available at later dates, but these helmets have no method of being obtained by a new player as far as we know.

 

 

Trust me, in the long run, it'd just be better if all stats were removed from all helmets no questions asked. I can understand community frustration at this, and I know there will be extreme backlash to this idea, but I feel it will help keep the community together in the long run. The last thing it needs is to be separated by such silly advantages. A non-vanguard helmet rhino is honestly a "joke" in comparison to jack-of-all-trades rhino the rest of us will get to keep.

 

(Also, if the goal is really to keep cosmetics truly cosmetic differences only, then please, just move stats to something else. Maybe a gear slot item or something? I dunno. This way it can still be obtainable and separate, if that's desired.)

 

 

...don't even get me started about how little the non-forum dwellers know about this potential helmet stat takeaway. My brother has no idea and couldn't possibly prepare for it if I didn't tell him.