Volt: What Exactly Is Wrong With Him?

[HansJurgen]

So why, exactly, are you using it as the basis of your argument?

 

Your argument not being appropriate for the context you put it in doesn't make it a fault of the context itself; in this case, Infinite content. That is a fault of your argument.

 

The only thing skewed in this example is your approach to logic.

 

 

I believe you put words in my mouth hardcore just for the sake of being right in an argument we are not having, to begin with.

 

i made no mention of infinite content. 

 

Describe the context. 

 

Logic says your counter argument is redundant, because there was none to be had, to begin with. 

 

Stop replying to my posts if you disagree with them just because reasons. 

[Moderius]

I believe you put words in my mouth hardcore just for the sake of being right in an argument we are not having, to begin with.

 

i made no mention of infinite content. 

 

Describe the context. 

 

Okay.

 

Dealing flat damage across the board in a game that thrives on maxing everything to godlike levels is not going to cut it. This becomes evident around 20-30 mark survival/defense waves when Volt begins to lag behind other frames.

 

That was easy.

[HansJurgen]

Okay.

 

 

That was easy.

 

Way to nitpick. Draw me the connection between 30 minutes and infinite. Tower 3 survival at 20 minute mark, and Volt's ult begins to show its limitations. The game demands you to last that long for certain prime parts.

 

The game is meant to be played solo too, mind you. 

 

Anyway, you claimed overload is great. It is just serviceable. That is my opinion, which I base it on lightning damage being a solid meh. But feel free to clutch at straws to somehow magically convince me I am not entitled to my own opinions. Or, you can deal with it.

 

Actually you know what? You are right. Volt is strong. And since nerfing anything strong is this community's past time, it should get the ax along with the rest of the strong frames.

Edited May 12, 2014 by HansJurgen

[Moderius]

Way to nitpick. Draw me the connection between 30 minutes and infinite. Tower 3 survival at 20 minute mark, and Volt's ult begins to show its limitations. The game demands you to last that long for certain prime parts.

 

You mentioned Survival and Defense. Those are both "infinite content" mission types. End of discussion.

 

Anyway, you claimed overload is great. It is just serviceable. That is my opinion, which I base it on lightning damage being a solid meh. But feel free to clutch at straws to somehow magically convince me I am not entitled to my own opinions. Or, you can deal with it.

 

Actually you know what? You are right. Volt is strong. And since nerfing anything strong is this community's past time, it should get the ax along with the rest of the strong frames.

 

Instead of mocking you for your reading comprehension, I'll just answer with this: Show me where I said anything you just claimed I did.

 

Bonus points, compare what I actually said to what you claim I said.

[HansJurgen]

You mentioned Survival and Defense. Those are both "infinite content" mission types. End of discussion.

 

 

Instead of mocking you for your reading comprehension, I'll just answer with this: Show me where I said anything you just claimed I did.

 

Bonus points, compare what I actually said to what you claim I said.

 

Oh, so what you mean is that survival and defense are in fact part of the game. Welp, if they are infinite content, I am p sure that is a design feature, otherwise they wouldn't be in the game. If it is a design feature, then stuff is balanced accordingly. No?

 

So what was your point again? Besides just nitpicking at stuff.

[HansJurgen]

Infinite content is not the objective of balance.  The overall difficulty curve and the plague of Grineer armor scaling are at issue, not Volt's power level.

 

It is part of the game and DE have designed the RNG walls around these game types, precisely for us to waste our time with infinite content. If that wasn't the case, defense and survival would not be infinite and would not come with tiered rewards depending on waves, and essential mods (not prime parts or anything "special") would not be locked behind these grind walls.

 

I am past the point where I am still fooling myself that is not the case just because one dev said that it isn't their intention. It takes exactly 5 seconds to delete the line of code that makes these game types infinite.

Edited May 12, 2014 by HansJurgen

[Moderius]

Oh, so what you mean is that survival and defense are in fact part of the game. Welp, if they are infinite content, I am p sure that is a design feature, otherwise they wouldn't be in the game. If it is a design feature, then stuff is balanced accordingly. No?

 

So what was your point again? Besides just nitpicking at stuff.

 

You're changing the subject. What I'm "nitpicking" are the spots where you lie.

 

My previous post still stands, since you entirely failed to address anything in it.

 

 

You mentioned Survival and Defense. Those are both "infinite content" mission types. End of discussion.

 

 

Instead of mocking you for your reading comprehension, I'll just answer with this: Show me where I said anything you just claimed I did.

 

Bonus points, compare what I actually said to what you claim I said.

 

You made accusations. So, follow up on them.

[RealPandemonium]

It is part of the game and DE have designed the RNG walls around these game types, precisely for us to waste our time with infinite content. If that wasn't the case, defense and survival would not be infinite and would not come with tiered rewards depending on waves, and essential mods (not prime parts or anything "special") would not be locked behind these grind walls.

 

I am past the point where I am still fooling myself that is not the case just because one dev said that it isn't their intention. It takes exactly 5 seconds to delete the line of code that makes these game types infinite.

The "infinite" parts of survival and defense (once enemies grow past the intended level range) is purely for fun, is not mandatory, and does not offer substantial benefits over running the mission again to the same point. In fact, survival and defense are the only void missions that you can choose to re-run your key for if you are unsatisfied with the result so, if anything, the RNG aspect of those missions is diminished compared to the others. 

Edited May 13, 2014 by RealPandemonium

[Wolfstorm18]

He had problems before, because his ultimate kept him in the air, exposed to enemy gunfire. The devs fixed it and now his animation is faster, he jumps, release the chain and then its over. Damage 2.0 also made his powers do some damage to enemies (finally). 

 

He is fine the way he is now. And I dont see any problem with electric shield. I use it in some missions. He is now one of the most balanced warframes around. Those who are complaining are not modding him right. 

[Vargras]

It's still strange that his Energy reserve is so low. Though it may be a balancing point due to his offensive abilities working well with Fleeting Expertise; he's easy to build for efficiency. But his abilities that really benefit the team later on, the speed and the shield, rely on duration, so it's a mixed bag. More base energy wouldn't hurt, at least.

I'm thinking it's like that because it's a balancing point. He's very easy to build for efficiency (Shock and Speed become dirt cheap), and if someone has an Energy Siphon, I only ever run out of energy if I spam Overload or goof off with Shock spam.

 

[Rokusho66]

I personally have no issues with volt. while his abilities can have issues with over all synergy they offer versatility. from a defensive shield barrier, AoE dmg, long range dmg (with pin point accuracy), speed for quick escapes or some wicked fun with the kogake I have no issues with him.

 

I have 3 different builds for volt and I haven't found any warframe where I have seriously muddled over builds for speed, etc...

 

especially now that speed is an AoE team buff I have no idea why people hate volt.

 

pre dmg 2.0 volt was badly weak vs infested and okay vs grineer but incredibly proficient versus corpus.

Ember was complained about similar issues but vice versa... and 2 of her abilities were copies of each other....

 

list of warframes that could use tweaks:

ASH (De has already stated changes they will make which I love)

Nyx (absorb has hit detection issues psychic bolts have tracking issues)

nekros (terrify is functional but lackluster, soulpunch is also lack luster.. though that's more opinion then practicality)

Banshee (silence was useless, but DE is tweaking it =D )

 

warframes in need of serious overhaul:

Valkyr (De has stated they are fixing her... namely hysteria being lackluster)

Trinity (DE says they will fix her but I wish theyd look at well of life)

 

those are the big ones that I remember in terms of true weakness but unlike most games you cant really make a top ten list unless its by personal preference rather then over all power.

 

all in all... unless you have maxed the warframe and fully invested in a build and feel weak even after understanding the playstyle then you may have a right to criticize it but even then offer alternate situations to help fix the solution and tweak it based off the feels of the community.

 

I do have to agree the hate on volt is unwarranted beyond doubt.

[HansJurgen]

You're changing the subject. What I'm "nitpicking" are the spots where you lie.

 

My previous post still stands, since you entirely failed to address anything in it.

 

 

 

You made accusations. So, follow up on them.

 

You are way off topic and being abrasive for absolutely no reason. The discussion is about Volt. 

 

This is what you originally said, first post in this thread, which is inferring long defense and survival waves.

 

It is also equivalent to what I also see as a problem with Volt:

 

He doesn't really scale very well later on, and his damage type isn't particularly effective against the more dangerous enemies, especially at higher levels. He can hand out stuns, but that's really the limit of it.

 

He's good for regular missions and farming, because he's very efficient and can unload a lot of damage against grouped enemies. I find him fun.

 

I mean, for high-tier content, you're really reduced to just firing through the shield. Which isn't super exciting.

 

 

My first post in this thread:

 

This is factually incorrect. Electricity is poor vs everything but moas (once their shields are down). Stun (which is buggy and can be resisted, and has a short duration) and chain damage is what it has going for it.

 

Overload is great on low level missions. Vs high level stuff, it is worthless.

 

 

Then, as if your original post never existed, you pick on me for pointing out that level scaling is a broken game mechanic:

 

 

So why, exactly, are you using it as the basis of your argument?

 

Your argument not being appropriate for the context you put it in doesn't make it a fault of the context itself; in this case, Infinite content. That is a fault of your argument.

 

The only thing skewed in this example is your approach to logic.

 

 

My original point was that frames like Volt (Oberon, and a bunch of others) are unbalanced because they are too strong at low levels and too weak at high levels. 

 

Furthermore, level scaling is a broken mechanic. Enemy types should be capped at level 30 like the player and balanced within these limits. If the developer wants to add stronger units, there should be new units with more challenging combat abilities, not the same units with insane damage/armor/hp, or simply more of them.

 

 Merely going through 2-3 waves/stages in survival/defense, means that enemy types will also go up in level. Survival and defense are meant to be played for a couple of waves. I made no mention about using Volt for several hours of survival.

 

I gave survival as a simple example for mobs that scale from manageable to high level enough (without pushing the envelope) to show the limitations of Volt's ultimate. On Pluto, Volt is nowhere near his effectiveness seen on earlier, lower level missions. That is not the case with most frames, which scale fine into the 30ies and above (as seen on standard invasion missions on Pluto or tower 3 exterminate or whatever). 

 

Having said that, feel free to explain why you disagree with me in a civil manner. 

 

If you just want to attack me just for the sake of it, I am asking you to stop. 

Edited May 13, 2014 by HansJurgen

[neKroMancer]

Bigger shield, Volt is happy :D

[Moderius]

You are way off topic and being abrasive for absolutely no reason. The discussion is about Volt. 

 

This is what you originally said, first post in this thread, which is inferring long defense and survival waves.

 

It is also equivalent to what I also see as a problem with Volt:

 

 

 

My first post in this thread:

 

 

 

Then, as if your original post never existed, you pick on me for pointing out that level scaling is a broken game mechanic:

 

 

 

 

My original point was that frames like Volt (Oberon, and a bunch of others) are unbalanced because they are too strong at low levels and too weak at high levels. 

 

Furthermore, level scaling is a broken mechanic. Enemy types should be capped at level 30 like the player and balanced within these limits. If the developer wants to add stronger units, there should be new units with more challenging combat abilities, not the same units with insane damage/armor/hp, or simply more of them.

 

 Merely going through 2-3 waves/stages in survival/defense, means that enemy types will also go up in level. Survival and defense are meant to be played for a couple of waves. I made no mention about using Volt for several hours of survival.

 

I gave survival as a simple example for mobs that scale from manageable to high level enough (without pushing the envelope) to show the limitations of Volt's ultimate. On Pluto, Volt is nowhere near his effectiveness seen on earlier, lower level missions. That is not the case with most frames, which scale fine into the 30ies and above (as seen on standard invasion missions on Pluto or tower 3 exterminate or whatever). 

 

Having said that, feel free to explain why you disagree with me in a civil manner. 

 

If you just want to attack me just for the sake of it, I am asking you to stop. 

 

You made accusations, false accusations which I very clearly refuted. 

 

Your "review" entirely omits the posts I'm directly responding to. You're twisting context to attempt a personal attack, because ad hominem is the only argument you seem to care for mustering. 

 

You may as well rearrange the words in my posts to say something else entirely, and it would be the same thing as your selectively rearranging the responses. This is a fine example of your particular brand of argument.

 

You are dragging the thread off-topic. If you cannot contribute, then do not pollute the topic.

[HansJurgen]

Bigger shield, Volt is happy :D

 

Very happy. Looking forward to it.