Dalu__Ka Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 Before we start I should say that my Flame Repellant is maxed and equipped, so bring your A game if you want to stand a chance. - Remove any and all damage from Molecular Prime. Now we have a slow down CC power. - Give Antimatter Drop a cap in damage output. Lets say... 100.000 dmg. (Still ridiculously OP, but what the hell, I'm in a good mood). This way she still has pwnsome damage, but she can also be used as a CC only frame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dtexas Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 Imo, the only change to Nova thats needed is to get rid of the slow down M Prime gives. Its not really needed, I dont even know why its a thing tbh. Nova will still be able todo what she does even without the slow down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tveeggad Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 The door is over there, please use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalu__Ka Posted May 10, 2014 Author Share Posted May 10, 2014 Well, I can see how a slow down only power might be good or nice to have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Entari0 Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 M-prime does not do any damage on its own, it just doubles the damage you send at the enemies. my suggestion would be to give M-prime a duration, so you cant just spam it all day. maybe nerf some of the aspects a bit, but deffiately give it a duration so the thing doesnt last forever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angius Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 Give M. Prime target cap increased by mods. This way you won' be able to prime the whole room full of Grineer, and you'll need to pick your targets and explode them in precise moments to maximize the damage output. You'll need to wait for the primed enemies to mix into the mass of non-primed ones. It'll be more tactical, not just press 4 to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgedemon Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 Imo, the only change to Nova thats needed is to get rid of the slow down M Prime gives. Its not really needed, I dont even know why its a thing tbh. Nova will still be able todo what she does even without the slow down. totally agree its annoying because slowed enemies aren't able to get in sight to be killed, and also a powerful damage dealer with biggest debuff in game in a single button? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shut Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 Imo, the only change to Nova thats needed is to get rid of the slow down M Prime gives. Its not really needed, I dont even know why its a thing tbh. Nova will still be able todo what she does even without the slow down. Or change it from "Slow down enemies" to "Speed up enemies", and increase the damage taken / make the damage boost scalable by Power Strength to compensate. Maybe give it a very quick stagger as well, enough to be used as a getaway for a solo Nova player but not enough to be a true CC skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archwizard Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 (edited) - Remove any and all damage from Molecular Prime. Now we have a slow down CC power. You don't even understand why we have Molecular Prime, do you? The Design Council poll that spawned Nova and her powerset specifically stated that her ultimate, quote, Primes all enemies in a radius with antimatter. Upon death the antimatter and matter collide causing high damage in a certain radius. The explosions can kill other primed enemies and set off more explosions. Can kill new enemies in explosion radius. Good for chain reaction explosions. I don't see anything in there about the debuff slowing, or even dealing double damage, do you? Those were Scott's additions to make the debuff seem more appealing at higher levels. Unfortunately, he made it too powerful. If you remove the explosions, it's not Molecular Prime, just a debuff skill. Nova wouldn't even be an Antimatter frame without them, just a disjointed de/buffer. Edited May 10, 2014 by Archwizard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
existentialvoid Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 whats up with all the nurf crying. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalenath Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 (edited) whats up with all the nurf crying. . . People don't like the fact that Nova has ONE job. To kill stuff. They want her to be nerfed so they can scream about THAT when she can't kill stuff any more. After all, it wouldn't do for a nuker to actually be able to do DAMAGE now would it? It's not like antimatter does anything when it touches matter anyway. Nope. The frame was DESIGNED as a nuker. As the ultimate nuker. People wanted a nuker, we got a nuker. Those of us who wanted something else got shouted down for being stupid. it's not like antimatter could be a power source or anything. Nope. Gotta be a nuker. As it is, Molecular Prime is a bit too powerful, but all the OMGNERFITNOWITSUX... isn't helping. Edited May 11, 2014 by Kalenath Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExplodingStars Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 But...But... Antimatter is a volatile substance, Molecular Prime needs to go boom for the Antimatter themed Nova. That said, the current Molecular Prime could use a change, but I don't think so in the explosive department. The speed debuff probably should be reversed into a buff and the "Antimatter Coat" wears off after X seconds (Affected by Duration, perhaps to counter Fleeting Expertise) Though honestly, I would be fine with a change in Molecular Prime's targeting or "spreading" mechanics, to make the ability more "interactive" rather than just a Fire and Forget skill that it is now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shut Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 People don't like the fact that Nova has ONE job. To kill stuff. They want her to be nerfed so they can scream about THAT when she can't kill stuff any more. Well, that's not flamebaity at all. But yeah, I agree that Nova should be blowing things up; turning her into a utility-based Frame wouldn't make sense based both on her concept and what (I hear) the DC had in mind for her. I think that the crowd destruction should stay, but the whole slowing thing wasn't necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalu__Ka Posted May 11, 2014 Author Share Posted May 11, 2014 (edited) You don't even understand why we have Molecular Prime, do you? ... If you remove the explosions, it's not Molecular Prime, just a debuff skill. Nova wouldn't even be an Antimatter frame without them, just a disjointed de/buffer. Sure I do, I just do not care. I place balance issues above DC feels. She still has her Antimatter Drop. I honestly do not understand why she should have 2 extremely good damage abilities. Giving her a slow down only skill will only improve her versatility. Edited May 11, 2014 by Tenn00b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prany Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 My take: reduce damage multiplier and slowdown, but let them be affected by power strenght mods. If it goes well, Nova should make lot of effort to aproach current power of MPrime... but never reach it. And give it duration affected by dreaded "Power In Use". Seriously, "Power In Use" should hit all (over)powerfull abilities. Why on Earth DE "fixed" it out of Rhino Stomp. It's not like it breaks abilities, just makes us use them more carefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azawarau Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 Imo, the only change to Nova thats needed is to get rid of the slow down M Prime gives. Its not really needed, I dont even know why its a thing tbh. Nova will still be able todo what she does even without the slow down. In some ways thats a buff... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shut Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 In some ways thats a buff... It makes it easier to gather enemies closely for maximum chain explosions, but it reduces the use as a defensive crowd-manipulation skill. That seems okay to me. The problem isn't that Nova can blow things up, it's that there's too much defensive utility to go along with it. MPrime in its current state would still be one of the best Ultimates in the game even if its explosions were scrapped entirely; that's how good/excessive the utility is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cwierz Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Its funny to me to see people who are just wrong in these threads. This issue is so worn out now, you would think DE themselves would have formed an opinion about it. But apparently they are just going to ignore it and hope the community will forget. I am fine with nova killing things. I am not fine with the incredible power difference between her and other comparable warframes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HansJurgen Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Nerf, nerf requests never change. At this rate, I think it is best to remove every single frame from the game and only keep Excalibur. Then, we can focus on nerfing guns until only Braton is left. What is your favourite frame, Tenn00b? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalu__Ka Posted May 12, 2014 Author Share Posted May 12, 2014 Nerf, nerf requests never change. At this rate, I think it is best to remove every single frame from the game and only keep Excalibur. Then, we can focus on nerfing guns until only Braton is left. What is your favourite frame, Tenn00b I think your suggestion of removing all but one frame and one weapon is a bit drastic. I do not believe it will benefit the game. For this discussion it does not matter which frame I like most. I think having a slow only power could bring new ways of crowd control, and she still has Antimatter drop to deal great damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HansJurgen Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 (edited) I think your suggestion of removing all but one frame and one weapon is a bit drastic. I do not believe it will benefit the game. For this discussion it does not matter which frame I like most. I think having a slow only power could bring new ways of crowd control, and she still has Antimatter drop to deal great damage. Ideally, all AOE damage abilities had very limited range, and very long cool times, and frames relied on utility and CC over damage. A slow only ult with nothing to make up for it will essentially relegate Nova to unusable in high level missions. Slow or not, those mobs will still be shooting you, and you are squishy enough to get one shot easily. Anti matter drop is also ridiculously situational. Slow, and highly reliant on you and your team working together to shoot it. Then, the range is meh. By the time it hits anything, you can potentially die. Any ult I can think of is much better in every way than anti-matter drop which is rightfully just a 2nd ability. On the other hand, why does warframe need to abuse the level scaling (ridiculous HP + Damage) rather than new, more challenging enemy types, with advanced AI and abilities that would render damage-based attacks ineffective? In such a scenario, AOE damage as opposed to utility and CC would be largely ineffective. For instance, an enemy type which can transform into a nanites which cannot be targeted by abilities or weapons, and you need to avoid and turn back into physical form, when he is only vulnerable to melee attacks or ragdoll. If you shoot this type of enemy, he just disperses into nanite form, and all the bullets just pass through. An enemy type which when targeted by an aoe damage ability, it reflects it back at you. With him around lesser mobs, using any damage based ability that might hit him will cause you and your team a lot of hurt. An enemy type which mirrors any buff abilities on him and his allies. This would make you consider very carefully using blessing, iron skin or what have you. And these are just off the top of my head.... So, what is your favorite warframe? Edited May 12, 2014 by HansJurgen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalu__Ka Posted May 12, 2014 Author Share Posted May 12, 2014 Ideally, all AOE damage abilities had very limited range, and very long cool times, and frames relied on utility and CC over damage. A slow only power without nothing to make up for it will essentially relegate Nova to unusable in high level missions. On the other hand, why does warframe needs to abuse the level scaling rather than new enemy types, to begin with? So, what is your favorite warframe? Agreed, corrupted mods destroyed the balance. A slow only power would be extremely useful in high level missions, think of it as those ice patches in the Void. Enemies affected by it are practically rendered useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HansJurgen Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 (edited) Agreed, corrupted mods destroyed the balance. A slow only power would be extremely useful in high level missions, think of it as those ice patches in the Void. Enemies affected by it are practically rendered useless. I have updated my previous post with more content. It is useful, no question, but it is not ultimate material by any stretch of the imagination, and does not fit the theme of Nova. Slow stuff that does not die in a heartbeat will kill Nova in a heartbeat. 1-2 slowly fired bullets will kill you just as effectively as a 10 bullet bursts. Have you ever played solo, primed something high level and waited a couple of moments to see what happens? You die. And since most guns are hitscan, you cannot "dodge" them by fooling around and relying on speed. Anyway, Frost's ult already does everything you described and better, by freezing any targets which manage to survive Avalanche's huge damage. Same goes for Hydroid which comes with massive CC, and it is spamable to boot. Also, Frost isn't a squishy frame by any stretch of the imagination and can afford taking shots from stuff that did not die from his ult. Edited May 12, 2014 by HansJurgen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalu__Ka Posted May 12, 2014 Author Share Posted May 12, 2014 Fair enough, How ever I stand by my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landwalrus Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Before we start I should say that my Flame Repellant is maxed and equipped, so bring your A game if you want to stand a chance. - Remove any and all damage from Molecular Prime. Now we have a slow down CC power. - Give Antimatter Drop a cap in damage output. Lets say... 100.000 dmg. (Still ridiculously OP, but what the hell, I'm in a good mood). This way she still has pwnsome damage, but she can also be used as a CC only frame. You do realize her damage drop off for mprime is around level 40~ at best and 30~ on an okay build, 20~ if you're running a utility build? She is really not that great for experienced players unless they have a speed build. She is fast, but if required to remain stationary she falls a little short due to being immensely squishy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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