Napalms Op

[Eurhetemec]

WTF game not 100% EZ-Mode???

 

NERF PLZ!!!!"11

 

A very typical response, but a really unhelpful and mindless one.

 

Napalms are "OP", relatively speaking. That is, they are wildly and disproportionately more dangerous than other Grineer units, particularly Grineer heavy units. I don't think anyone can actually argue with that. The explosion they produce is large and does not match the visual at all (frequently I've been right in the fire and not been hit by it, or meters away and hit, and that's in solo, let alone MP!), and at higher levels the DoT can easily chew up a 'frame very badly. The OP is not wrong to complain about dodging the explosions being a problem - if you try to do that, and appear to succeed, you will typically still be hit by the DoT, in my experience, especially Online.

 

Heavy Gunners and Bombards are far less threatening, typically, I would suggest.

 

The question is, are Napalms meant to be the most dangerous of Grineer units by far? If so, good job. I get the feeling they are meant to be on-par with Heavy Gunners and Bombards, though. If the visuals for their attacks were accurate, this would be less of an issue, as others have noted.

 

This has nothing to do with "manning up" or other silly nonsense. It's about game design. No-one is more or less of a "man" (lolz) because they dislike a game design element (I can't imagine a more pathetic test, myself). Personally, I feel like a lot of Grineer units could do with buffing, but Napalms could do with taking down a notch.

[HansJurgen]

Yes. Please nerf. Nerf everything. Alas, nerfing anything that makes this game remotely challenging is our game community's past time.

[Dalawantahr]

You shame Rhino Prime. D:

Agree! Plz commit sepuku to regain Rhino Prime honor.

Edited May 12, 2014 by Dalawantahr

[Feallike]

Make enemies smarter, make enemies weaker. FIXED! 

 

 

2015: update 26 Enemy AI is smarter:

 

1 week later in forums: ENEMIES ARE TO HARD NERF!~!~! I CAN"T BEAT NEPTUNE NERF ENEMIES!

 

2015 update 26.5 1 months later, Enemy AI is back to normal.

 

-.- I predict it.

Edited May 12, 2014 by Feallike

[Stonehenge17]

I am a little disappointed by this my rhino prime brother.

 

1. You can literally face tank napalms with little to no issue. (Max Iron skin + intensify) They don't fire their weapon within melee range and your not affected by knockdown.

2. Stomp the bastard and shoot it.

3. Rhino charge and shoot it.

4. Slide attack it

5. Equip a puncture weapon

6. Add radiation/corrosive/blast to your weapon.

7. Use a heavy weapon (it provides a short stun)

[Azawarau]

what do you want us to do? the guy is asking about the easiest grineer unit to dodge and kill, they are not a problem alone. trust me, i have done that invasion he spoken about. no scorpion there, how the hell do you explain getting shot 3 times in the face?

 

what is more of a problem, he has rhino prime which my now he should be use to dealing with napalms, unless he bought the thing which is another warframe discussion entirely that i will not touch on in this thread

 

they are one of the more memorable grineer unit out there, getting blasted when you were a newby surely did drill the idea into your head of not getting and make you figure a way to deal with it, which many people have pointed out before me. sometime you just gotta man up and play the damn game. i generally like being helpful and productive but that depend on the dumbness of the question

Hes not very good at games we know

 

But acting that way is going to hurt much more than it helps

[Wahooo]

A very typical response, but a really unhelpful and mindless one.

 

Napalms are "OP", relatively speaking. That is, they are wildly and disproportionately more dangerous than other Grineer units, particularly Grineer heavy units. I don't think anyone can actually argue with that. The explosion they produce is large and does not match the visual at all (frequently I've been right in the fire and not been hit by it, or meters away and hit, and that's in solo, let alone MP!), and at higher levels the DoT can easily chew up a 'frame very badly. The OP is not wrong to complain about dodging the explosions being a problem - if you try to do that, and appear to succeed, you will typically still be hit by the DoT, in my experience, especially Online.

 

Heavy Gunners and Bombards are far less threatening, typically, I would suggest.

 

The question is, are Napalms meant to be the most dangerous of Grineer units by far? If so, good job. I get the feeling they are meant to be on-par with Heavy Gunners and Bombards, though. If the visuals for their attacks were accurate, this would be less of an issue, as others have noted.

 

This has nothing to do with "manning up" or other silly nonsense. It's about game design. No-one is more or less of a "man" (lolz) because they dislike a game design element (I can't imagine a more pathetic test, myself). Personally, I feel like a lot of Grineer units could do with buffing, but Napalms could do with taking down a notch.

Because whiny posts like this keep coming up every few months and everyone who seems to have the inability to move the mouse in another direction and press W for a 1/2 second complains about how OP this or that unit is.

 

Napalms, all Grineer Heavy Units with their smash, Scorches, Eviscerators, Scorpions with how long their knockdown is, have all been called OP.  Basically someone dies a few times in a match because they are bad, they come to the forum and start a thread that the unit is OP.

 

All of these things have come up repeatedly, and the simple fact is the REAL problem is the players.  Every one of these threads has talked about how much time they do over XX amount of time.  Which says flat out, that person was standing still.  Move aim and shoot FFS.

[Azawarau]

Because whiny posts like this keep coming up every few months and everyone who seems to have the inability to move the mouse in another direction and press W for a 1/2 second complains about how OP this or that unit is.

 

Napalms, all Grineer Heavy Units with their smash, Scorches, Eviscerators, Scorpions with how long their knockdown is, have all been called OP.  Basically someone dies a few times in a match because they are bad, they come to the forum and start a thread that the unit is OP.

 

All of these things have come up repeatedly, and the simple fact is the REAL problem is the players.  Every one of these threads has talked about how much time they do over XX amount of time.  Which says flat out, that person was standing still.  Move aim and shoot FFS.

There are literally millions of players

 

Its bound to happen

 

For every player that thinks they are OP there are 100,000 at least that think theyre fine

 

Taking out your aggression on them is like saying

 

"Black guys look at me funny sometimes so im gonna look funny at all of them from now on because im sick of it" (ignore the race, its what i thought of on a moment)

 

And i get it

 

Napalms are not an issue, but still

 

Chill out

 

Edited May 12, 2014 by Azawarau

[Allenaattori]

A maxed Flame Repellent mod is very useful in this case. Since it reduces damage to shields and Iron Skin, use with a Redirection and Guardian on your sentinel. It reduces damage from Scroches with Ignis too.

 

Valkyr - Hysteria with a good Zoren/Ichor crit build can take them out very easily, don't forget you are invincible and immune to knockdown too.

 

Rhino - An Iron Skin with max power STR can absorb a ton of damage or just Stomp to make them stop.

 

Loki - Maxed out range for Radial Disarm counters this problem veeeeery well. Invisibility less, you can get killed by the AoE damage.

 

Nyx - Cast Absorb in the crowds or before your shield runs out, you will be recharging it and being immune to everything. You will also knock them down buying some seconds to get away from them or kill them.

[(PSN)RocketPunch1221]

A maxed Flame Repellent mod is very useful in this case. Since it reduces damage to shields and Iron Skin, use with a Redirection and Guardian on your sentinel. It reduces damage from Scroches with Ignis too.

 

Valkyr - Hysteria with a good Zoren/Ichor crit build can take them out very easily, don't forget you are invincible and immune to knockdown too.

 

Rhino - An Iron Skin with max power STR can absorb a ton of damage or just Stomp to make them stop.

 

Loki - Maxed out range for Radial Disarm counters this problem veeeeery well. Invisibility less, you can get killed by the AoE damage.

 

Nyx - Cast Absorb in the crowds or before your shield runs out, you will be recharging it and being immune to everything. You will also knock them down buying some seconds to get away from them or kill them.

 

Use the so called "weakest frame in the game", Radial Blind the entire map, walk up to them and pop cap in face at point blank. 

Edited May 12, 2014 by (PS4)RocketPunch1221

[Azawarau]

A maxed Flame Repellent mod is very useful in this case. Since it reduces damage to shields and Iron Skin, use with a Redirection and Guardian on your sentinel. It reduces damage from Scroches with Ignis too.

 

Valkyr - Hysteria with a good Zoren/Ichor crit build can take them out very easily, don't forget you are invincible and immune to knockdown too.

 

Rhino - An Iron Skin with max power STR can absorb a ton of damage or just Stomp to make them stop.

 

Loki - Maxed out range for Radial Disarm counters this problem veeeeery well. Invisibility less, you can get killed by the AoE damage.

 

Nyx - Cast Absorb in the crowds or before your shield runs out, you will be recharging it and being immune to everything. You will also knock them down buying some seconds to get away from them or kill them.

Does Steel Fiber affect Iron Skin yet?

 

Use the so called "weakest frame in the game", Radial Blind the entire map, walk up to them and pop cap in face at point blank. 

Ash can use Radial Blind?

[DarthRevan84]

Napalm not Over Powered....OP Is crazy and just needs to be better at the game.

[Ishki88]

God, people even want to call the enemy OP now and forget about the other Grineer and Corpus that need some buffs

 

P.S.  You don't have to touch a flame to feel its heat

 

now think about that.....then think about how the Napalms can be tweaked for less derp 

[Allenaattori]

Does Steel Fiber affect Iron Skin yet?

No. But it's affected by XXXX resistance mods.

 

Use the so called "weakest frame in the game", Radial Blind the entire map, walk up to them and pop cap in face at point blank. 

I don't like Excal, that's why I didn't mention him ;(

Edited May 13, 2014 by CookingFood

[(PSN)andyb_b5]

A very typical response, but a really unhelpful and mindless one.

 

Napalms are "OP", relatively speaking. That is, they are wildly and disproportionately more dangerous than other Grineer units, particularly Grineer heavy units. I don't think anyone can actually argue with that. The explosion they produce is large and does not match the visual at all (frequently I've been right in the fire and not been hit by it, or meters away and hit, and that's in solo, let alone MP!), and at higher levels the DoT can easily chew up a 'frame very badly. The OP is not wrong to complain about dodging the explosions being a problem - if you try to do that, and appear to succeed, you will typically still be hit by the DoT, in my experience, especially Online.

 

Heavy Gunners and Bombards are far less threatening, typically, I would suggest.

 

The question is, are Napalms meant to be the most dangerous of Grineer units by far? If so, good job. I get the feeling they are meant to be on-par with Heavy Gunners and Bombards, though. If the visuals for their attacks were accurate, this would be less of an issue, as others have noted.

 

This has nothing to do with "manning up" or other silly nonsense. It's about game design. No-one is more or less of a "man" (lolz) because they dislike a game design element (I can't imagine a more pathetic test, myself). Personally, I feel like a lot of Grineer units could do with buffing, but Napalms could do with taking down a notch.

I have to agree 100% that Napalms are a cut above the rest and there is a gap.

 

I have to disagree 100% that they should be nerfed down.

 

Instead I'd like to see some of the other units buffed a bit to fill that gap and give a smoother scaling from weakest -> strongest.

[MihawkDulacr1]

I can just agree to the others that answered before me, napalm definetly DONT need a nerf, instead the other units would be good for a buff

[Eurhetemec]

I have to agree 100% that Napalms are a cut above the rest and there is a gap.

 

I have to disagree 100% that they should be nerfed down.

 

Instead I'd like to see some of the other units buffed a bit to fill that gap and give a smoother scaling from weakest -> strongest.

 

I don't think they need taking down much, to be honest - they just need:

 

A) Flame blast animation changed to reflect the real radius and shape of the blast. That's not a nerf, imo, though some would say it is. I've walked right into the blast and taken no damage or DoT, before, yet been miles away and hit by it other times (Solo, not Online!). That's crummy.

 

B) Flame DoT damage down a bit (getting slowly "one shot" by the DoT from a blast that appeared to miss entirely is funny but really dumb design).

 

As I said I agree that others need to come up! :)

Edited May 13, 2014 by Eurhetemec

[n0xi0us]

Whenever I see this type of topic come up, I shudder a little inside.. I won't say to "git gud" or whatever else, but in an action based game of this type, with what is widely considered one of the mobs that is considered from a genuine threat to a priority nuisance, means that players in all sorts of varying degree of skill can agree that Napalms are something to be watched. This is good. We need more of this.

 

Napalms to me are the one enemy type that while they can be annoying (explosions, etc..) also toe the proverbial line to where you make a mistake, you will get your wrist slapped.. keep going, and well, you deserve it. Adapt a little, its not that bad. If you expect to face-tank everything, you *should* expect to see this happen. If not, this is certainly a total loss of challenge to a game, where you have not a single enemy make you cringe slightly by its sole appearance. If nothing else, we need more of this, to make the runs that we are almost automatically blind-charging to the end, have us pause for a second and maybe, just maybe, think "oh crap".

 

But hey, I like challenge, be it "visually annoying" or bad-play punishing. I hate turning off my brain when I play games, I enjoy having to think at the very least that there is more than a blob of color I have to press M1 and aim toward the mass. Then again, I could very well be part of a dying breed of player, who you know, likes to be challenged (blah blah blah, no challenge in this game, I don't want to hear it) sometimes. Napalms, despite knowing how to manage them, still give me pause. And I like that.

 

/rant off

[Eurhetemec]

But hey, I like challenge, be it "visually annoying" or bad-play punishing. I hate turning off my brain when I play games, I enjoy having to think at the very least that there is more than a blob of color I have to press M1 and aim toward the mass. Then again, I could very well be part of a dying breed of player, who you know, likes to be challenged (blah blah blah, no challenge in this game, I don't want to hear it) sometimes. Napalms, despite knowing how to manage them, still give me pause. And I like that.

 

/rant off

 

This is just self-aggrandizing nonsense. You are not "the last of a dying breed", for god's sake, not even slightly. You are not special. You are not unique or unusual. Things were not better in the past. I know, I was there. Everyone likes challenge.

 

That has nothing to do with this issue.

 

The problem is that Napalms are drastically harder to deal with any other Grineer unit. There's a huge gap. Self-indulgent twaddle about how special and awesome you are has nothing to do with that! There are only two valid solutions, as has been discussed:

 

1) Bring other units up in difficulty.

 

or

 

2) Nerf Napalms.

 

or, perhaps

 

3) Both.

 

Or you could explain how it's good game design that one unit is randomly much harder to deal with than the others, even though it's largely because the animation of it's main attack is very inaccurate, but no-one has done that, they've just done things like waffle about how they're the only person who still loves challenge. I cannot roll my eyes hard enough for that one.

Edited May 13, 2014 by Eurhetemec

[deth_monkey69]

Decoy to turn him away, radial disarm, then murder.

[n0xi0us]

Wow.. I feel like I started melting a special snowflake, or just REALLY picked a bad time to post something to get torn down that hard. You're right, I am not special, but hey, opinions and all that, right? No?

 

Seriously, what is so damn hard about Napalms other than keep a decent distance from them and plug away. Sure, the explosions could use some work, as I get knocked over behind some cover over others, but blowing this out of proportion that I am seeing, I am gonna leave my grandstanding to this statement, seeing as how I disagreed with someone and got dismissed for it;

 

You want to rush in like an idiot and get shot in the face by rockets and wonder why you are dying? Problem might be between the keyboard and chair. Completely nerfing is not the answer, and jacking up the rest of the enemies will only cause more fowl cries from those people who don't want to think past their noses. I get it, not everyone is skilled at these games, but man.. a little effort goes a long way in gaming in general.

 

Gonna step off my soapbox that I was so summarily "called out" as to have been standing on in the first place for having an opinion.

[Stonehenge17]

This is just self-aggrandizing nonsense. You are not "the last of a dying breed", for god's sake, not even slightly. You are not special. You are not unique or unusual. Things were not better in the past. I know, I was there. Everyone likes challenge.

 

That has nothing to do with this issue.

 

The problem is that Napalms are drastically harder to deal with any other Grineer unit. There's a huge gap. Self-indulgent twaddle about how special and awesome you are has nothing to do with that! There are only two valid solutions, as has been discussed:

 

1) Bring other units up in difficulty.

 

or

 

2) Nerf Napalms.

 

or, perhaps

 

3) Both.

 

Or you could explain how it's good game design that one unit is randomly much harder to deal with than the others, even though it's largely because the animation of it's main attack is very inaccurate, but no-one has done that, they've just done things like waffle about how they're the only person who still loves challenge. I cannot roll my eyes hard enough for that one.

 They are not significantly harder to kill than other grineer units. They have MORE ARMOR!. They have the same armor as a heavy gunner and the exact same AI behavior. How about learn to play and adapt to unit varieties. If you have a napalm then run around and shoot them with the proper set up. Each enemy type has it's own set of armor and health values. They are not hard to kill at all. I have more issue with elite eviscerators (spelling) than with napalms.

[(PSN)LUCKY_JOEL]

The only suggestion to nerf or change is the way it attacks.

First off, it is far too powerful and has no real weakness. Unlike the Hellion, simply taking out its jetpack and it becomes a average Grineer Lancer (Which I think needs work too but that complaint is for another time.). So make it possible to add something that renders a Napalm less efficient or easier to take out. So what I would think is add something similar to a Hellion but it would cause a damaging explosion, not killing it entirely but making ridding portions of its health, maybe 10-25% of it. Maybe it will not be able to use its Ogris as well and will be forced to use another weapon, Ignis most likely. Likely to add in a AI change to where when in use of the Ogris, he is more in a defensive mode and then Offensive whenever using the Ignis.

Another idea is that, like a few suggested, reduce its blast radius and how it works. Understandable if its thin covering but behind a thick wall is just a slap to the face. It really discourages and tells you to stay the hell away from it and hope it dies from something that isn't you. Make it possible so taking cover behind walls or something easy to hide behind won't inflict damage through it. That is the main reason I die most of the time is when it fires off a shot, travels slow enough to run from but once you think you are safe as the door closes behind you and boom, it blasts right through it with its blast radius and you are hit, if possible, dead too..

[Eurhetemec]

Gonna step off my soapbox that I was so summarily "called out" as to have been standing on in the first place for having an opinion.

 

Your opinion was "I am the last of a dying breed of gamers who actually like challenge!", so yeah that's pretty ridiculous and self-aggrandizing, and I definitely recommend stepping off that soapbox. You were claiming to be a special snowflake, note.

 

 They are not significantly harder to kill than other grineer units. They have MORE ARMOR!. They have the same armor as a heavy gunner and the exact same AI behavior. How about learn to play and adapt to unit varieties. If you have a napalm then run around and shoot them with the proper set up. Each enemy type has it's own set of armor and health values. They are not hard to kill at all. I have more issue with elite eviscerators (spelling) than with napalms.

 

They have twice the health (or more) of a Heavy Gunner and the same armour (not "MORE ARMOR" as you put it). This is reflected in the Wiki. They're more dangerous and have a longer TTK. If you don't see one coming, because it's at an oblique angle or hidden by others or spawns behind you and shoots immediately (there are many places where this can happen), or a bunch spawn, it is easy for them to hit you before you can do much, especially as they hit through walls/doors/etc. and the blast is much larger.

 

Elite Eviscerators are also much more dangerous than they should be - and for a similar reason - extreme DoT procs and weapons it's hard to see coming (and in some cases literally unavoidable).

 

For my money, base hit damage for ALL Grineer should come up, and DoT proc damage should come down with Napalms and Eviscerators.

Edited May 13, 2014 by Eurhetemec

[MMZephyr]

This is why I love my Ash. Get a good melee weapon, hit smoke screen, and kill them before they even shoot you once. Ever since I got Ash I have not even been hit by a napalm/bombard. And their knockdown doesn't matter either anymore.