Suggestion: Forma Counting Toward Mastery.

[TC-Guardian]

I feel this topic may spark some debate, however it's an idea which has been floating in my mind for months and I think could make Mastery rank feel a little less flawed.

Currently Mastery Rank is only made greater by acquiring and max ranking a weapon, frame, or pet. This seems great and all but really does not consider players who have huge amounts of experience but have stuck with the weapons they enjoy.

Now I know my suggestion wont fix this completely, however it should make it so there is a little recognition for their experience.

 

My theory goes that even if a player is happy with what they've got and have stuck with it for ages, they are likely to have gotten more mods, maxed their mods out, and thus needed to Forma their beloved gear multiple times to accommodate for this, yet they have no recognition of this.

I purpose that when a weapon is Forma'd each level after that gives the player a very small amount of Mastery points, I'm thinking maybe 10 points per level, meaning that by level 30 they will get an extra 300 points for a weapon, which wont affect too much. But it means players who have got these weapons and frames which they love and forma'd them 6+ times, they get something to show they have experience, and more mastery of those weapons than someone who has just mastered and moved on.

It will also separate the field for those who have mastered every weapon, I my self have mastered all of the current non exclusives except Ampex, Lex Prime, and Brakk, and am sitting pretty at M15 with friends who have got well over twice the game time, twice as powerful weapon builds and knowledge of the game.

Introducing the forma mastery means that these people will get the recognition for the huge number of hours they have spent on the game, instead of having them road blocked because there hasn't been a new weapon/pet/frame in the last few hours it takes for them to master them :S

Please feel free to discuss this with your opinions as I am keen to hear what other players and staff have to say, I also really want to hear from some people who aren't into farming all the weapons.

Edited May 14, 2014 by TC-Guardian

[Cruispleuro]

I don't really see this as viable. Even with a miniscule amount of mastery being added per rank, people can still get 5+ formas per day with affinity boosters and dark sector grinding. However, this does raise a point. A possible solution would be a secondary stat, similar but not equal to mastery rank, which levels up based on formas completed. While this would be wholly unnecessary and likely wouldn't happen, that's the only way I can think of incorporating forma progress into a stat. 

[alphex2357]

What about people who already put forma on? Such as max ranked players? They would probably go up a rank.

[TC-Guardian]

I don't really see this as viable. Even with a miniscule amount of mastery being added per rank, people can still get 5+ formas per day with affinity boosters and dark sector grinding. However, this does raise a point. A possible solution would be a secondary stat, similar but not equal to mastery rank, which levels up based on formas completed. While this would be wholly unnecessary and likely wouldn't happen, that's the only way I can think of incorporating forma progress into a stat. 

I really like the idea of the secondary stat, like Mastery becomes "Game Mastery" or "Game Completion" and the secondary is Player Experience.

Also maybe they should put it on stars so that the weapons are limited to 13 forma mastery, could work.

 

What about people who already put forma on? Such as max ranked players? They would probably go up a rank.

 

Yeah, that is one of the main ideas of this all, it would be a means of people having their experience recognised. I mean currently I have 519 hours (and have been sitting on M15 since 398) which could be a lot of hours, but then I just went onto my friends list and one M15 had 790 hours, another is sitting pretty one 1594 hours. I am no where near the level that they are which is were I think there should be a system to recognise this, and this is a solution which came to mind. 

[dashashou]

while i  would love it to work this way , it would mean that  people just wouldn't use some of the least liked weapons , and wouldn't build / buy them . Unlikely that DE would want that  / give players a way to  ignore content .  

[Ammolds]

I don't really see this as viable. Even with a miniscule amount of mastery being added per rank, people can still get 5+ formas per day with affinity boosters and dark sector grinding. However, this does raise a point. A possible solution would be a secondary stat, similar but not equal to mastery rank, which levels up based on formas completed. While this would be wholly unnecessary and likely wouldn't happen, that's the only way I can think of incorporating forma progress into a stat. 

Basically this.

 

 

While the OP raises a valid point/concern.

 

I personally don't see Formaing as "further mastery" over a weapon. If anything, then it's tweaking/modifying/fine-tuning a weapon, which does not really = mastery. In my head anyway.

 

"But what if I have -EVERYTHING- mastered? :c"

 

Well, I'd first like to point out that having a constant stream of progression (ranking/mastery) to work on is one of the main things I enjoy in a lot of Online games. So that "end/stop/pause" can be a bit sad.

 

However, lets be honest here. Mastery through Forma (a small amount at that) basically -WILL- literally be taken as Mastery Grinding. Not by everyone, but enough people will fire up their grinders and start Formaing absolutely -EVERYTHING- to ludicrous levels, solely to squeeze every little drop of mastery out of every item. Mark my words, this will happen and yes, this implementation of grinding will be frowned upon by a different portion of the community. That will ultimately lead to a point where. More Free Time = More Mastery. Not actual mastery of different items, but literally it will fall down to how much time players have to play the game.

 

The current system, including the time gaps between new content releases, keeps the mastery system reasonable and sensible.

 

Lastly. DE has mentioned, more than once, on Livestreams that Mastery will have more significant rewards as time goes by. We're slowly getting things in that category as time goes by (resource drones and such).

 

This idea would have potential conflicts with the concept of Mastery and any plans for more Mastery rewards.

 

TL;DR

 

If you care about the topic. Read it.

If you don't. Why are you here?

Edited May 14, 2014 by Ammolds

[Cruispleuro]

Yeah, that is one of the main ideas of this all, it would be a means of people having their experience recognised. I mean currently I have 519 hours (and have been sitting on M15 since 398) which could be a lot of hours, but then I just went onto my friends list and one M15 had 790 hours, another is sitting pretty one 1594 hours. I am no where near the level that they are which is were I think there should be a system to recognise this, and this is a solution which came to mind. 

Well at this point why don't we just get a badge that changes color/material based on playtime? I wouldn't mind getting a shiny gold badge to acknowledge how much of my life has been wasted on this game. I mean, I've already got a copper skull badge to show off already. 

 

What about people who already put forma on? Such as max ranked players? They would probably go up a rank.

If we were retroactively given mastery for formas, I would gain a significant amount for it. I've got an 8-forma Banshee and three or four 6-forma weapons, and numerous other 2-4 forma warframes alone, not to mention all the other little silly things I've wasted formas on (working on an 8-forma spectra).

[Lypiphera]

As it stands there is no need of a higher rank past 8 for weapons/frames and rank 10 for drones. Once you have suffered with new gear that much you can simply call it quits, at least until something new changes. And getting that little trickle of XP would do nothing for you anyway, unless you planned on over formaing your gear, which some would grind after everything else.

 

Besides, mastery rank is not an indicator of how good you are or how much time you spent in the game. None of the stats really are. Mastery rank can be farmed with relatively little effort and boosted by affinity boosters. Game time can simply be farmed by AFKing in the game. Kills/mission can show how active you are and if you happen to be putting in effort....unless if you count others not even trying. 

 

Mastery rank is there as a time/money sink and it is here to stay. Besides, they are planning another XP sink into the game soon, look forward to that.

 

TLDR: If you really want to show off your experience in the game then go PVP. That is the only true way you can show your superior skills to those you wish to impress.

[TC-Guardian]

while i  would love it to work this way , it would mean that  people just wouldn't use some of the least liked weapons , and wouldn't build / buy them . Unlikely that DE would want that  / give players a way to  ignore content .  

If you make the benefits as small as I mentioned then, if you really were going for mastery rank, you would get the other weapons, and then rank them instead of Forma'ing a weapons 10 times to get the same reward.

The mastery points would just give that slight recognision, the small amount of gratification that would make those extra hours spent with the weapon worth their time.

 

-snip-

-will make it a grind fest giving free time players an advantage.-

 

The current system, including the time gaps between new content releases, keeps the mastery system reasonable and sensible.

 

Lastly. DE has mentioned, more than once, on Livestreams that Mastery will have more significant rewards as time goes by. We're slowly getting things in that category as time goes by (resource drones and such).

 

This idea would have potential conflicts with the concept of Mastery and any plans for more Mastery rewards.

 

TL;DR

 

If you care about the topic. Read it.

If you don't. Why are you here?

I agree with a lot of the points you are making here, but this really is aimed at those players with all the free time. It would be for the players who have spent the hours in the game to get experience. I realise using forma for mastery may not be the best way to go about this, but I think there needs to be something to show that some players are more experienced than others, currently I am meeting Mastery 8 players who are better than some 13-15's but that is because they have spent the time, forma, and credits to get good and powerful with the tools they have.

I am beginning to think that maybe separating this from mastery and making it so that it is shown in another way would be better.

Maybe a badge or icon number to represent it. I don't think it should be off of time (as much as I have been on about it), as I know some players with more time on WF than me who haven't got a clue, and then a couple are still in their first couple of hundred who are keeping up with me if not surpassing me in skill, experience and knowledge of the game.

Maybe they need to fix the skill system and find some way to have it that it give a visual change depending on skill or how powerful you are. I don't know, I just feel that mastery is currently very flawed, all it is in its current state is a "Game Completion" stat.

[Cruispleuro]

Besides, mastery rank is not an indicator of how good you are or how much time you spent in the game. None of the stats really are. 

There are a few stats that are a pretty good indicator of skill and gametime, with the exception of the stat named Skill, oddly enough. Gametime literally measures time spent in missions. Accuracy, mission completion %, cipher time, headshot kills, individual weapon stats (headshot kills/total kills for snipers maybe) are possible indicators for game skill. 

 

TLDR: If you really want to show off your experience in the game then go PVP. That is the only true way you can show your superior skills to those you wish to impress.

PvP skills =/= PvE skills. The current PvP barely possesses any amount of cooperation with your teammate, if at all. I've got a good 800+ hours in this game and have never touched Conclaves, but I offer ample help and advice in order to "show off" my experience. 

[TC-Guardian]

As it stands there is no need of a higher rank past 8 for weapons/frames and rank 10 for drones. Once you have suffered with new gear that much you can simply call it quits, at least until something new changes. And getting that little trickle of XP would do nothing for you anyway, unless you planned on over formaing your gear, which some would grind after everything else. Most players reach I know max everything and then keep forma'ing stuff to make them more powerful.

 

Besides, mastery rank is not an indicator of how good you are or how much time you spent in the game. None of the stats really are. Mastery rank can be farmed with relatively little effort and boosted by affinity boosters. Game time can simply be farmed by AFKing in the game. Kills/mission can show how active you are and if you happen to be putting in effort....unless if you count others not even trying. 

 

Mastery rank is there as a time/money sink and it is here to stay. Besides, they are planning another XP sink into the game soon, look forward to that.

 

TLDR: If you really want to show off your experience in the game then go PVP. That is the only true way you can show your superior skills to those you wish to impress. No, PVP now is literally a game of who shot first, went on with some friends the other day and 1 bullet was all we needed.

I have sort of come to the conclusion from this thread that over all, we need a new stat other than Mastery.

[Cruispleuro]

 No, PVP now is literally a game of who shot first, went on with some friends the other day and 1 bullet was all we needed.

I have sort of come to the conclusion from this thread that over all, we need a new stat other than Mastery.

This, for both comments. PvP is who can hit a moving target with the strongest, most farmed-for modded gun. I support a new stat other than mastery, although it'll probably never be implemented sine it's not paramount to gameplay unless it's used for a reputation system or something, which would be a bit off, but who knows.

[Lypiphera]

There are a few stats that are a pretty good indicator of skill and gametime, with the exception of the stat named Skill, oddly enough. Gametime literally measures time spent in missions. Accuracy, mission completion %, cipher time, headshot kills, individual weapon stats (headshot kills/total kills for snipers maybe) are possible indicators for game skill. 

 

PvP skills =/= PvE skills. The current PvP barely possesses any amount of cooperation with your teammate, if at all. I've got a good 800+ hours in this game and have never touched Conclaves, but I offer ample help and advice in order to "show off" my experience. 

Accuracy has been a flawed stat for a long time, I have fired and hit just once and yet have very low accuracy. If I am not mistaken the sentinels count towards accuracy and lets not forget how shotguns and multishot mods work. Mission completion is also flawed, I don't know how many missions I've not completed because of connection issues or had someone troll a game. I once had someone troll people in the same game for hours, he was dead and behind doors that would not open for anyone. His trolling was only ended when a hotfix came out and no one else could join him. Cipher time can be reduced heavily just by buying ciphers, no skill there. They really should replace headshots with vulnerable spots, because the head isnt always the best place to hit them. Besides, headshots are also not tracked properly.

 

The current PvE barely possesses any amount of cooperation with your teammate, if at all.

 

No, PVP now is literally a game of who shot first, went on with some friends the other day and 1 bullet was all we needed.

 

 

PvP is who can hit a moving target with the strongest, most farmed-for modded gun.

 

So, PVP shows who has spent the time and effort finding the best weapons/frame/mods, leveled them up, learned how to quickly track your target and avoid being hit... Sounds like a viable indicator to me.

[neKroMancer]

I see 'recognition' from polarizing weapon and frame as an increase in power through more mod points. Giving more mastery rank from each Forma, even with diminished return, will lead to Polarization just for the sake of mastery rank. Part of community that dislike grinding probably yell at DE with this change.

Disagree with the idea.

[Yezzik]

What else could give Mastery? Levelling mods?

[BiancaRoughfin]

I would have at least three times my current mastery if this was to happen since most of my frames and good weapons got from 2~6 Formas.

 

Considering DE only plans on taking account Rank to 30, this would be very bad for them to sell platinum since it would be cheaper paying 20 plat for a Forma and using it on a weapon that gets easyer to rank every time then paying 150~360 plat on a new pre~fab weapon.

[existentialvoid]

I remember asking this when I first started:

 

why do I have to play frames and weapons I have no interest in in order to get mastery.  Why punish the specialist player who only really ever wants to play 2 o 3 frames and 2 or 3 weapons. 

 

At first I thought it was because slots are plat, and plat is money for DE - but you can cycle your frames through and level up - so that is not necessary.  I know people who have gotten to rank 15 without buying any slots.  They just built, leveled then sold the frames and weapons - then when they got to rank 15, they rebuilt and releveled the weapons they liked most and poured all those free formas they had been building into those choice weapons. 

 

So I guess there is no real logic in the end. . .in the mean time, I have finished all the secondary and melee weapons, and have 4 more primaries to go (burston, Cernos, Tigris and Vulcar) before I have finished everything. . ..an believe me, I will have never fired a round from the burston when it is done - just rely on a trusted secondary to actually do something while I schlepp this primary around to imply get it off my back.

 

And in case you were wondering, yes, I have several 5/6 formaed weapons (quite a few) mostly thanks to Dark Sectors. . .

[(PSN)DanteVincent]

I wouldn't say mastery but our weapons should feautre some sort of cosmetic difference per forma amount.

[kaboomonme]

Isn't a reputation system actively being worked on at the moment? When it sees the light of day, we can then judge and see if it's the stat we need.

Edited May 16, 2014 by kaboomonme

[TC-Guardian]

Isn't a reputatiom system actively being worked on at the moment? When it sees the light of day, we can then judge and see if it's the stat we need.

Yeah, has been in the works for a while. I hope it works, and I hope it covers this.

[Cruispleuro]

Wow, I'm surprised this thread is still going. Also;

 

I wouldn't say mastery but our weapons should feautre some sort of cosmetic difference per forma amount.

I support this so much. In the old days (before Mods 2.0) we got small glowing dots on our melee weapons to signify mods. I wouldn't mind a version of this being re-implemented to show formas achieved.