Thoughts On Releasing The Aklato Prime And Dual Skana Prime [Please Be Civil And Constructive]

[Mesyra]

I have a thought that's just partially in line with what's going on here.  It somewhat fits in with the ideas present in the topic so I'm gonna just bring it up regardless since it's not really a negative point.

 

The original non-prime Lato as is seen in that one concept art picture is pretty much stellar looking whilst being clearly not the same weapon.  So my thought here is simple;  Release that Lato under a new name, Lato V2 or something of the sort as a gun (normal market, not clan tech) with noticeably greater stats and a Mastery rank prerequisite, possibly around MR 10.  At the same exact time buff the Lato Prime so that its stats are in line with this new Lato.

 

Now everyone has a moderate magazine sized semi-automatic pistol that doesn't blow and looks gnarly.  It still doesn't really appease everyone of course, but no such idea exists.  Founders still have a weapon that is clearly unique and theirs in appearance, but not functionality.  Everyone has a worthwhile pistol.

 

It also doesn't really say anything for the Skana Prime of course, but honestly I dig pistols and there's no such concept art for a non-prime Skana like that.

I like this idea a lot, and they can make the old lato the mk1 lato like the mk1 braton, and this new lato can just be called...... LATO :D

[Aggh]

Also, they don't state the name of the weapon. They show an image of it.

 

Which clearly means they were selling the look of the weapon. And not specifying it was "Ak" or a single weapon.

 

 

Thus, they clearly were selling it as aesthetic.

Nope.

 

https://www.facebook.com/PlayWarframe/photos/a.400986439960880.92358.348360875223437/580920095300846/?type=1

 

click see more to realize how wrong you are.

 

also:

 

http://web.archive.org/web/20130310105706/https://warframe.com/founders

 

Mouse over the items

Edited June 10, 2014 by Aggh

[The_Lunatic_]

Nope.

 

https://www.facebook.com/PlayWarframe/photos/a.400986439960880.92358.348360875223437/580920095300846/?type=1

 

I can't even view this link.

 

 

Please do not link-off site to things which cannot be viewed.

 

It clogs up the thread pointlessly. Thanks.

[Mesyra]

I would like to point out the massive pile of platinum that the founders did get from the pack, 8k platinum for $250. lets look at that shall we? 

 

[Mesyra]

I can't even view this link.

 

 

Please do not link-off site to things which cannot be viewed.

 

It clogs up the thread pointlessly. Thanks.

[Aggh]

I can't even view this link.

 

 

Please do not link-off site to things which cannot be viewed.

 

It clogs up the thread pointlessly. Thanks.

 

That was a link to the warframe facebook page lol.

 

Try this:

 

http://web.archive.org/web/20130310105706/https://warframe.com/founders

 

Mouse over the item images.

Edited June 10, 2014 by Aggh

[OniDax]

I have a thought that's just partially in line with what's going on here.  It somewhat fits in with the ideas present in the topic so I'm gonna just bring it up regardless since it's not really a negative point.

 

The original non-prime Lato as is seen in that one concept art picture is pretty much stellar looking whilst being clearly not the same weapon.  So my thought here is simple;  Release that Lato under a new name, Lato V2 or something of the sort as a gun (normal market, not clan tech) with noticeably greater stats and a Mastery rank prerequisite, possibly around MR 10.  At the same exact time buff the Lato Prime so that its stats are in line with this new Lato.

 

Now everyone has a moderate magazine sized semi-automatic pistol that doesn't blow and looks gnarly.  It still doesn't really appease everyone of course, but no such idea exists.  Founders still have a weapon that is clearly unique and theirs in appearance, but not functionality.  Everyone has a worthwhile pistol.

 

It also doesn't really say anything for the Skana Prime of course, but honestly I dig pistols and there's no such concept art for a non-prime Skana like that.

 

I'm fine with this. I'm really fine with a reskinned Skana Prime being released that has the same color scheme as this non-Prime Lato. But the models AND Prime textures of these Founders weapons make up the identity of these items. It's what people see when Lato Prime or Skana Prime are said. Aggh has the opinion that it doesn't matter if they look like the Founders weapons because exclusivity doesn't apply to the looks. VYR3 says that it's possible for these weapons to not look like the Founders weapons at all.

 

I don't think VYR3 is right on that aspect, because people don't need to see the name of the weapon to know what it is. They see what it looks like, and that determines what it is. Again, an aklato prime that uses the model of the sicarus prime WILL be called and known by everyone as an Aksicarus Prime. No one will question what it is. My point was that, if it's ok to have an Aklato Prime using the same model+texture, then that means that the exclusivity of the items have no bearing on the graphics of those items. Since DEDrew responded and said that the exclusivity does not have bearing on any variants, then I take it that the only items off limits are single versions of these weapons.

 

So to answer the OP, yes, DE can release an Aklato Prime and a Dual Skanas Prime. I don't think it really fixes much, since there are plenty more I'd say who want Excalibur Prime than those who want these weapons, but your suggestion can be done.

Edited June 10, 2014 by AntoineFlemming

[Mithie]

I would like to point out the massive pile of platinum that the founders did get from the pack, 8k platinum for $250. lets look at that shall we? 

 

 

Right. 

In that case, since the actual worth of the package was marked as 600 dollars, that leaves the weapons, the badge, and the solar mark as, together, worth 350 dollars.

[OniDax]

Again, the OP's suggestion, per DE, isn't breaking their word since exclusivity doesn't apply to variants, and thereby any other weapons that may look like the Founders weapons. Is it worth it imo? No, because 1) the weapons aren't that good, and any dual variants would be comparable to the single variants, and 2) I think more want Excalibur Prime than want these weak weapons.

[Aggh]

Right. 

In that case, since the actual worth of the package was marked as 600 dollars, that leaves the weapons, the badge, and the solar mark as, together, worth 350 dollars.

The plat was valued at $400 on the founders page.  At current non discounted prices it'd be ~412.

[The_Lunatic_]

I'm going to avoid quoting like 5 different posts an images.

 

 

It's nothing to do with what what we go.

 

It's about what we were sold.

 

We were sold the image of a gun and the word "Exclusive".

 

Nobody ever argued that these technicalities aren't bullS#&$ technicalities. What is argued is that it would piss off founders for no reason.

 

Also, given the pair of these two have completely given up on answering "Why do you need -these- weapons." I'm just going to let you all take that as what it is.

 

Neither of them are capable of giving a reason to why DE should piss off founders and release these weapons specifically. That should really say all you need to know about this argument.

[Trouvo]

Would the easiest way to make both sides happy is to re-release the "founder's package" again but take out the badges, still same prices and what not, then people can just try and complain about the price(which would be inevitable).

 

I swear people complain about everything....even when a specific statement and decision was already made....oh you didnt know bout the game yet? well what about all the other mmo's out there with their collector's edition boxes? you cant get those again unless you find one that didnt sell, they should just say "NO" already and stop letting threads like this continue, its absolutely rediculous.

 

I missed out too cuz I couldnt afford it at the time, but thats not DE's fault they shouldnt re-release it because i couldnt afford it....I missed out on the Wildstar pre-order bonuses would i expect to have opportunity to get them again later? NO, because thats not how it works.

 

Just because these are digital items does not mean they are not "Out of Stock"

 

I swear it seems the generation these days are all about hand outs and getting stuff for nothing caring not for the why or how.....

 

PS4 and XBone missed out too, but guess what they could have started playing on the pc before that, oh they didnt have a pc? sorry you just missed out then, thats life, it happens, i wish people would stop expecting something just cuz they want it.

 

this isnt against anyone in particular its more the idea that seems to pop up everywhere these days, because it seems this is that day and age....

 

ON TOPIC: I just wish DE would just say NO and be done with it...

[OniDax]

Cingal, people want them because they think they look good. That's the only reason.

Edited June 10, 2014 by AntoineFlemming

[Aggh]

I'm going to avoid quoting like 5 different posts an images.

 

 

It's nothing to do with what what we go.

 

It's about what we were sold.

 

We were sold the image of a gun and the word "Exclusive".

 

Nobody ever argued that these technicalities aren't bullS#&$ technicalities. What is argued is that it would &!$$ off founders for no reason.

 

Also, given the pair of these two have completely given up on answering "Why do you need -these- weapons." I'm just going to let you all take that as what it is.

 

Neither of them are capable of giving a reason to why DE should &!$$ off founders and release these weapons specifically. That should really say all you need to know about this argument.

You weren't sold images unless you're incapable of reading or mousing over a web page.

 

Here's the FAQ from the founders page:

 

http://web.archive.org/web/20130509142314/https://warframe.com/faq

 

It's very clear about what the founders items are.

 

Why should it matter whether we need the weapons or not?   There's no reason for them not to be released.

Edited June 10, 2014 by Aggh

[Mesyra]

 I think more want Excalibur Prime than want these weak weapons.

you are correct my friend.but there is the minority that wants the crappy weapons.

[OniDax]

We were sold the Lato Prime and the Skana Prime. Aggh is right. Exclusivity doesn't apply to every weapon that looks like the Lato Prime or Skana Prime. Only to those weapons (if it did then any variant would also be exclusive). I still think that shouldn't be the case because you could have a new Prime secondary called the Leta Prime that looks exactly like the Lato Prime.

Edited June 10, 2014 by AntoineFlemming

[(PSN)Bobtm0]

Not quoting all these market images for the sake of saving space, you can find them if you look through the recent posts.

 

If my math is right, roughly 8k platinum is set at a value of $528.94 USD if looking at platinum's base value (every package beyond the lowest cost package gives a discount).  That means that the additional cost up to $600 is only $71.06.  So that remaining value is divided amongst the founder's exclusive items (1 Frame and 2 weapons), the badge, beta keys, and design council access.  Seems reasonable to me at least.  But really though I'm not entirely certain why this is being brought up in the first place.  Point is they bought it, end of story.  For all intents and purposes it could've been fifty cents, a purchase is a purchase.

 

Anyways, I just want to know if there's anyone who is outright opposed to my suggested "fix" for the issue.  I figure it touches base well enough since it not only gives everyone access to a useful toy, but it also lets founders keep the shiny goodness.  I definitely know my own solution still doesn't solve all the complaints, but really that's impossible.

[The_Lunatic_]

You weren't sold images unless you're incapable of reading or mousing over a web page.

 

Here's the FAQ from the founders page:

 

http://web.archive.org/web/20130509142314/https://warframe.com/faq

 

It's very clear about what the founders items are.

 

Why should it matter whether we need the weapons or not?   There's no reason for them not to be released.

 

Do you not understand advertising?

 

Also "It looks cool" is not a good enough reason to tick off everyone who helped found the game.

[OniDax]

Not quoting all these market images for the sake of saving space, you can find them if you look through the recent posts.

 

If my math is right, roughly 8k platinum is set at a value of $528.94 USD if looking at platinum's base value (every package beyond the lowest cost package gives a discount).  That means that the additional cost up to $600 is only $71.06.  So that remaining value is divided amongst the founder's exclusive items (1 Frame and 2 weapons), the badge, beta keys, and design council access.  Seems reasonable to me at least.  But really though I'm not entirely certain why this is being brought up in the first place.  Point is they bought it, end of story.  For all intents and purposes it could've been fifty cents, a purchase is a purchase.

 

Anyways, I just want to know if there's anyone who is outright opposed to my suggested "fix" for the issue.  I figure it touches base well enough since it not only gives everyone access to a useful toy, but it also lets founders keep the shiny goodness.  I definitely know my own solution still doesn't solve all the complaints, but really that's impossible.

 

You go by the value that DE said the different parts were worth, because that's what they sold. The plat was a $400 value, everything else was a $200 value, equalling the $600 value (yes, this is the Grandmaster's value). But at the same time, Founders only paid $249.99. So they shouldn't get more than that, or anything worth more than that anyway, unless they'd get a refund of all that platinum.

[Mithie]

Not quoting all these market images for the sake of saving space, you can find them if you look through the recent posts.

 

If my math is right, roughly 8k platinum is set at a value of $528.94 USD if looking at platinum's base value (every package beyond the lowest cost package gives a discount).  That means that the additional cost up to $600 is only $71.06.  So that remaining value is divided amongst the founder's exclusive items (1 Frame and 2 weapons), the badge, beta keys, and design council access.  Seems reasonable to me at least.  But really though I'm not entirely certain why this is being brought up in the first place.  Point is they bought it, end of story.  For all intents and purposes it could've been fifty cents, a purchase is a purchase.

 

Anyways, I just want to know if there's anyone who is outright opposed to my suggested "fix" for the issue.  I figure it touches base well enough since it not only gives everyone access to a useful toy, but it also lets founders keep the shiny goodness.  I definitely know my own solution still doesn't solve all the complaints, but really that's impossible.

 

Maybe we're getting into a tangent here but I don't think that's how it works.

If I can buy 4300 plat for 200 bucks at any time I want, then the market value of 4300 plat is 200 bucks.

Likewise, the market value of 75 plat is 5 bucks.

 

Different volumes of a commodity can have different unit prices. If you buy oil futures on CME, for example, different volumes will have different unit prices.

 

As for your suggestion, I would very much like a new pistol to play with, but that's not going to address any of the complaints the folks are having regarding mastery and exclusivity.

Edited June 10, 2014 by mithie2

[Aggh]

Do you not understand advertising?

 

Also "It looks cool" is not a good enough reason to tick off everyone who helped found the game.

I'm not sure you do.  As a general rule, putting the specifics of what you're selling is good enough.  DE did that on the founder's page and on the FAQ that was on the founders page.

 

 

Again, the OP's suggestion, per DE, isn't breaking their word since exclusivity doesn't apply to variants, and thereby any other weapons that may look like the Founders weapons. Is it worth it imo? No, because 1) the weapons aren't that good, and any dual variants would be comparable to the single variants, and 2) I think more want Excalibur Prime than want these weak weapons.

Why the sudden change in heart?

Edited June 10, 2014 by Aggh

[(PSN)Bobtm0]

You go by the value that DE said the different parts were worth, because that's what they sold. The plat was a $400 value, everything else was a $200 value, equalling the $600 value (yes, this is the Grandmaster's value). But at the same time, Founders only paid $249.99. So they shouldn't get more than that, or anything worth more than that anyway, unless they'd get a refund of all that platinum.

 

That's sensible of course.  In the event of a refund upon a sale/specialty item (which is somewhat rare) the person receiving the refund doesn't acquire the full value, they get back their purchasing price.  I suppose the only reason I did the break down was because there was a bit of a back and forth about the value of things and I felt like being the nerd I am.

[The_Lunatic_]

I'm not sure you do.  As general rule, putting what you're selling in writing is good enough.  DE did that on the founder's page and on the FAQ that was on the founders page.

 

Apparently I'm going to have to repeat myself about 5 times before you'll register this.

 

It's how they sold it. Not what they sold.

 

They sold an image of the gun and said "You get this".

 

 

Nobody is saying there's not some dumb technicality. We're saying it'd be unfair to use it.

[OniDax]

I'm not sure you do.  As general rule, putting what you're selling in writing is good enough.  DE did that on the founder's page and on the FAQ that was on the founders page.

 

 

Why the sudden change in heart?

 

I'm not saying I agree with it, but I got a response from DEDrew.

 

 

Exclusivity does not necessarily extend to variants, but I realise (and players have told me) that those variants could/would feel like a sneaky way to get around exclusivity.

 

 

That's sensible of course.  In the event of a refund upon a sale/specialty item (which is somewhat rare) the person receiving the refund doesn't acquire the full value, they get back their purchasing price.  I suppose the only reason I did the break down was because there was a bit of a back and forth about the value of things and I felt like being the nerd I am.

 

I just think that it's better to re-release all these items and find a way to refund Founders in a way that doesn't limit them. I think a platinum refund is very limiting. If you could put platinum towards the purchase of any warframe-related item, like Prime Access or something of that sort, then a platinum refund would be ok. It's the same reason I would never be for a reset - you only get a platinum refund, but you can't reacquire everything you once had because not everything is acquirable through plat.

Edited June 10, 2014 by AntoineFlemming

[Aggh]

Apparently I'm going to have to repeat myself about 5 times before you'll register this.

 

It's how they sold it. Not what they sold.

 

They sold an image of the gun and said "You get this".

 

 

Nobody is saying there's not some dumb technicality. We're saying it'd be unfair to use it.

 

Thinking that they sold the image of a gun doesn't make it true.  How many times should they have had to write the works "Lato prime" and "skana prime" to make it clear to you that they were selling you a package that included the lato prime and the skana prime?

Edited June 10, 2014 by Aggh