Thoughts On Releasing The Aklato Prime And Dual Skana Prime [Please Be Civil And Constructive]

[Arkezuli]

No.

[JohnProdman]

for DE to get away with releasing them. 

Alright, I'm going to put aside the actual topic here for a second.

 

This attitude is terrible for the community. "Blah blah Digital Extremes can't do this to us, how dare they!" People need to stop acting like a game developer is causing some sort of infraction on basic human rights every time they change or put something into their game.

 

Stop using Founder status as an excuse to be malicious towards the developers and other players. 

Edited June 6, 2014 by JohnProdman

[Aggh]

No weapon should be released that shares a model with the Lato Prime and Skana Prime. End of debate. Next you're going to ask for AkExcalibur Prime with two heads.

 

I don't even have Skana or Lato Prime and I'm offended that you think they are different enough for DE to get away with releasing them. It's literally the same model times two. All weapon stats would also be based off of the original Prime variants, against raising the question of how separate are they really.

DE promised to not re release the skana and lato prime.  They made no promises whatsoever about the dual skana or Aklato.  By that logic they shouldn't require us to pay or craft separately for dual versions of weapons.  After all, it's just two of the same weapon so why should we have to spend money on it?

Edited June 6, 2014 by Aggh

[Fate_6]

Alright, I'm going to put aside the actual topic here for a second.

 

This attitude is terrible for the community. "Blah blah Digital Extremes can't do this to us, how dare they!" People need to stop acting like a game developer is causing some sort of infraction on basic human rights every time they change or put something into their game.

 

Stop using Founder status as an excuse to be malicious towards the developers and other players. 

This is literally a discussion of Founder status. We  paid for an item because it was going to never be released again. Your comment makes no sense and does not belong here.

 

DE promised to not re release the skana and lato prime.  They made no promises whatsoever about the dual skana or Aklato.  By that logic they shouldn't require us to pay or craft separately for dual versions of weapons.  After all, it's just two of the same weapon so why should we have to spend money on it?

It takes 2 Latos to make an Aklato, 2 Broncos to make an Akbronco, 2 Bronco Primes to make an Akbronco Prime. I think you can see where I'm going with this. You missed your chance to get Founder's gear. DE is not going to release a weapon that shares the same model as the Lato Prime and then increase its stats. Just accept that and move on.

Edited June 6, 2014 by Fate_6

[Trowicia]

Remove the mastery points from Founder gear and their counting for codex completion and I won't give a damn about not owning them.

 

This, or give every player less than Hunter's founder rank 12,000 free mastery exp gained from founder gear in tiers. Like so:

- Disciple or less: 12,000 EXP for Excalibur, Lato and Skana Prime

- Hunter: 6,000 EXP for Lato and Skana Prime

- Master: 3,000 EXP for Lato Prime

 

I feel like it'd make a huge chunk of the players happy including myself. (Sorry for those who actually desire the Founder Gear for collective purposes)

 

I personally don't give a rat's &#! about Founder's gear because I have Ember, Boltor, Lex and Glaive all in their Prime variations. It's my dream loadout and I wouldn't trade it for anything DE could offer from this point on.

[Aggh]

This is literally a discussion of Founder status. We  paid for an item because it was going to never be released again. Your comment makes no sense and does not belong here.

 

It takes 2 Latos to make an Aklato, 2 Broncos to make an Akbronco, 2 Bronco Primes to make an Akbronco Prime. I think you can see where I'm going with this. You missed your chance to get Founder's gear. DE is not going to release a weapon that shares the same model as the Lato Prime and then increase its stats. Just accept that and move on.

 

Dual skana and dual heat sword don't require any weapons in their crafting costs. 

 

Please show me where Aklato and dual skana were in the founders packages.  In order for them to be founders rewards, they actually have to have been released as one.  Which they were not.

 

Sit down please :|

Edited June 6, 2014 by Aggh

[Fate_6]

Dual skana and dual heat sword don't require any weapons in their crafting costs.  Sit down please :|

 

Please show me where Aklato and dual skana were in the founders packages.  Because in order for them to be founders rewards, they actually have to have been released as one.

 Clearly you did not see where I was going. All dual sidearms have required 2 of the relevant sidearm.

 

Again, Aklato Prime requires the use of the Lato Prime model. They are not going to release that. Same with Skana Prime/Dual Skana Prime.

[Aggh]

 Clearly you did not see where I was going. All dual sidearms have required 2 of the relevant sidearm.

 

Again, Aklato Prime requires the use of the Lato Prime model. They are not going to release that. Same with Skana Prime/Dual Skana Prime.

 

So by that logic, it'd be OK to release the dual skana prime and not the Akalato prime?  That's just a crafting hurdle that they added in later on in the game's development.  Aklato was purchaseable for straight up credits for ages.

 

edit:  Actually just checked, Aklato is a credit only weapon now.  Forgot they had changed it back.  What was that about all dual sidearms requiring 2 of the relevant sidearm?

 

Founders were not given an exclusive model, they were given an exclusive weapon.  The founders pages said nothing about the model being exclusive, in fact it specifically called them exclusive items.

Edited June 6, 2014 by Aggh

[Trowicia]

AKLato and Dual Skana seems like a really risky thing for DE to do without pissing off a few founders wanting exclusivity of both weapons, even in their dual variations.

 

I got my popcorn ready for whatever DE possibly has cooking regarding this matter.

[Aggh]

AKLato and Dual Skana seems like a really risky thing for DE to do without &!$$ing off a few founders wanting exclusivity of both weapons, even in their dual variations.

 

I got my popcorn ready for whatever DE possibly has cooking regarding this matter.

DE shouldn't have to tip toe around eggshells every time they want to add something remotely similar to a founders item.  The promises they made about founders exclusives couldn't be any clearer.  Excalibur prime, skana prime, and lato prime are exclusives.  They have no other obligations whatsoever to the founders on exclusivity of any other item.

Edited June 6, 2014 by Aggh

[RespectTheInternet]

I'm confused.. if the answer to the founders exclusivity is to release some prime versions of those weapons, but in their dual version, how is that any different from releasing any other prime weapon?

[Aggh]

I'm confused.. if the answer to the founders exclusivity is to release some prime versions of those weapons, but in their dual version, how is that any different from releasing any other prime weapon?

It's not an answer to founder exclusivity.  Releasing dual variants is just releasing dual variants.  The founders exclusives would still be just as exclusive.  The only real way to allow non founders access to founders items without harming the exclusivity of founders items is to allow them to be tradeable.

[Trowicia]

I'm confused.. if the answer to the founders exclusivity is to release some prime versions of those weapons, but in their dual version, how is that any different from releasing any other prime weapon?

 

I think some founders just take it offensively if DE were to release AKLato Prime and Dual Skana Prime publicly via Void/Derelicts given they will most likely be better than their single counterparts.

 

Honestly, they were given what they were promised. Some people actually prefer the single-handed weapons over dual-handed. One of those people would be me, but as I said in my earlier post, I already got what I want without having to be a Founder.

[Aggh]

I think some founders just take it offensively if DE were to release AKLato Prime and Dual Skana Prime publicly via Void/Derelicts given they will most likely be better than their single counterparts.

 

Honestly, they were given what they were promised. Some people actually prefer the single-handed weapons over dual-handed. One of those people would be me, but as I said in my earlier post, I already got what I want without having to be a Founder.

That's completely irrational on there part then.  

 

Skana prime and lato prime have been outclassed by other weapons pretty much for ages.  Heat sword outclassed the skana prime right from the get go in closed beta and then charged melee weapons outclassed all the melee weapons in the game in damage 1.0 melee.  

 

Even if the lato prime hadn't been outclassed by pretty much every secondary except for the lato, there was no reason to use it over a primary like a +bajillion% multishot +gazillion% puncture gorgon.

Edited June 6, 2014 by Aggh

[Mithie]

So... you want BETTER, dual versions of founders exclusive weapons without paying the price that founders did.

 

I'm okay with it. Give the current founders a copy and for the rest, put the weapons up for 200 dollars, like a Prime package. Nothing else from the founders packages. Just the dual versions of the Lato and Skana.

There. That's fair. You're getting improved versions of founders weapons while paying 50 bucks less than what founders paid for them.

 

It's a win-win.

[Aggh]

So... you want BETTER, dual versions of founders exclusive weapons without paying the price that founders did.

 

I'm okay with it. Give the current founders a copy and for the rest, put the weapons up for 200 dollars, like a Prime package. Nothing else from the founders packages. Just the dual versions of the Lato and Skana.

There. That's fair. You're getting improved versions of founders weapons while paying 50 bucks less than what founders paid for them.

 

It's a win-win.

They aren't copies and  DE has been releasing better weapons for over a year.  Your argument hinges on the idea that DE owes you anything for making these weapons.  They made no promises about them as as such are not obligated to do anything remotely close to what you're suggesting.

 

It's actually kind of ironic.  After all this time with founders accusing people that want the founders program to come back of acting entitled, some founders are acting completely and utterly entitled in regards to the possible release of dual aklato prime and dual skana prime. 

 

Why does DE owe it to you to go through those hoops to release weapons that they hold no obligations towards you for?  And why wouldn't founders have to spend an extra  $200 on those weapons too?

Edited June 6, 2014 by Aggh

[Mithie]

They aren't copies and  DE has been releasing better weapons for over a year.  They owe you nothing for making these weapons because they made no promises about them.

 

Yeah, see, there's the bit about keeping DE in good faith. What you're suggesting is a loophole. 

 

We, founders, gave DE a S#&$load of money at a time when the future of the game was uncertain. We gave DE the benefit of the doubt that they will deliver a good game. There's a latent trust in this relationship that DE is going to be upfront and honest about appreciating what we do. The lato and skana primes are tokens of that trust and honestly. 

See, where you're wrong, is these weapons are not trophies and they're not collectors items but tokens of a relationship. We trusted DE enough to give them startup money. DE gave us these tokens to validate this trust, with the implicit assumption that no one else who has earned that trust will receive these tokens.

 

What you're asking DE to do is to exploit a loophole to grant the same tokens in spirit to people outside of that trust. I don't think it's an issue of promises or legality. I agree with you, what you're suggesting isn't in the letter of the trust, but it's a breach of the spirit of the trust. DE doing that means they no longer puts us founders in good trust. What you should be asking yourself is, if DE is willing to exploit a loophole to break trust with their oldest, most veteran supporters, how far down the road before they do so with the rest of the community?

 

THAT SAID, I am definitely not against releasing the dual version of the weapons, but I'd like those weapons to have the same spirit as their singular counterparts. You want to have them? Pay for them the same way the Founders did. Take a financial leap and invest something solid in the project.   

[Aggh]

Yeah, see, there's the bit about keeping DE in good faith. What you're suggesting is a loophole. 

 

We, founders, gave DE a S#&$load of money at a time when the future of the game was uncertain. We gave DE the benefit of the doubt that they will deliver a good game. There's a latent trust in this relationship that DE is going to be upfront and honest about appreciating what we do. The lato and skana primes are tokens of that trust and honestly. 

See, where you're wrong, is these weapons are not trophies and they're not collectors items but tokens of a relationship. We trusted DE enough to give them startup money. DE gave us these tokens to validate this trust, with the implicit assumption that no one else who has earned that trust will receive these tokens.

 

What you're asking DE to do is to exploit a loophole to grant the same tokens in spirit to people outside of that trust. I don't think it's an issue of promises or legality. I agree with you, what you're suggesting isn't in the letter of the trust, but it's a breach of the spirit of the trust. DE doing that means they no longer puts us founders in good trust. What you should be asking yourself is, if DE is willing to exploit a loophole to break trust with their oldest, most veteran supporters, how far down the road before they do so with the rest of the community?

 

THAT SAID, I am definitely not against releasing the dual version of the weapons, but I'd like those weapons to have the same spirit as their singular counterparts. You want to have them? Pay for them the same way the Founders did. Take a financial leap and invest something solid in the project.   

It's not a loophole, it's a fact.  Dual weapons have always been separate entities from their single weapon counter parts.  This is just the usual stubborn founders' complaining. 

 

The only difference is that you don't have any ground to stand on this time.  Your whole argument hinges on a non existent obligation that DE somehow holds towards you on these weapons.

 

The exclusivity on founders items has always been made crystal clear.  The permanent vault is only in use for very specific weapons and items.  The prime syandanas, the prime extractors, excalibur prime, skana prime, lato prime, lato vandal, and braton vandal.  DE has been incredibly clear about this.  The founders page was also incredibly clear about this.  Nothing was said about dual versions being exclusive.  If DE has not explicitly said that something will be exclusive, they are not obligated to have it be exclusive.

 

And to be clear, I could care less whether I get any of these weapons or not, if I had seen the value in further founders levels I would have bought them.  The reason why I am taking this argument up is because of the filthy irrational sense of entitlement that many founders are exhibiting in this thread.  If your suggestion wasn't based in that I'd be completely fine with it.

Edited June 6, 2014 by Aggh

[Mithie]

It's not a loophole, it's a fact.  Dual weapons have always been separate entities from their single weapon counter parts.  This is just the usual stubborn founders' complaining. 

 

The only difference is that you don't have any ground to stand on this time.  Your whole argument hinges on a non existent obligation that DE somehow holds towards you on these weapons.

 

The exclusivity on founders items has always been made crystal clear.  The permanent vault is only in use for very specific weapons and items.  The prime syandanas, the prime extractors, excalibur prime, skana prime, lato prime, lato vandal, and braton vandal.  DE has been incredibly clear about this.

 

Okay. So have DE sell them to you for 200 dollars. Not exclusive, and with existing business models in the form of prime packages already in place.

 

I think that's fair.

 

You're paying 50 dollars less for superior weapons than what we grandmaster founders paid back then. I think it's a good deal. You get your weapons, DE gets money, everybody benefits.

Edited June 6, 2014 by mithie2

[Aggh]

Okay. So have DE sell them to you for 200 dollars. Not exclusive, and with existing business models in the form of prime packages already in place.

 

I think that's fair.

 

You're paying 50 dollars less for superior weapons than what we grandmaster founders paid back then. I think it's a good deal. You get your weapons, DE gets money, everybody benefits.

But why does DE have to do this?  I want to hear the reasoning behind this.  Why do you specifically want it to happen that way?  I'll tell you why.  It's because of this:

 

 

We, founders, gave DE a S#&$load of money at a time when the future of the game was uncertain. We gave DE the benefit of the doubt that they will deliver a good game. There's a latent trust in this relationship that DE is going to be upfront and honest about appreciating what we do. The lato and skana primes are tokens of that trust and honestly. 

See, where you're wrong, is these weapons are not trophies and they're not collectors items but tokens of a relationship. We trusted DE enough to give them startup money. DE gave us these tokens to validate this trust, with the implicit assumption that no one else who has earned that trust will receive these tokens.

 

Which has literally no bearing whatsoever on these weapons.  If your intentions were pure I'd be willing to agree with you.  But we all know why you're making this suggestion.

 

It'd also run completely in counter to the philosophy behind the prime access packages that they've been selling for the last six months.  But I suppose that DE should just totally reverse their business model to assuage the completely unfounded offense that some founders would find in releasing these weapons.

Edited June 6, 2014 by Aggh

[Mithie]

But why does DE have to do this?  I want to hear the reasoning behind this.  Why do you specifically want it to happen that way?

 

One, because no matter how much you harp about dual weapons being completely different from their single variants, they are not. In most cases, they are straight upgrades, and they share the exact same model, duplicated twice.

 

Two, because you wanting a straight upgrade of what founders paid 250 dollars for without putting forward the same price makes YOU the entitled one, not me. I am entitled to them because I spent a significant amount of real world money at a time when the game's future was uncertain. Tell me why you're entitled to getting straight up better versions of them without a similar effort and risk. 

Edited June 6, 2014 by mithie2

[Mithie]

 

Which has literally no bearing whatsoever on these weapons.  If your intentions were pure I'd be willing to agree with you.  But we all know why you're making this suggestion.

 

It'd also run completely in counter to the philosophy behind the prime access packages that they've been selling for the last six months.  But I suppose that DE should just totally reverse their business model to assuage the completely unfounded offense that some founders would find in releasing these weapons.

 

Yeah? How does it completely run counter to the philosophy behind the prime access packages?

They're selling you exclusive items for cash, like synadanas and extractors. Throw the skanas and latos in there and put a 200 dollar price tag on them.

Same business model. Same philosophy. Call it "Founders 2.0".

Edited June 6, 2014 by mithie2

[Aggh]

One, because no matter how much you harp about dual weapons being completely different from their single variants, they are not. In most cases, they are straight upgrades, and they share the exact same model, duplicated twice.

 

Two, because you wanting a straight upgrade of what founders paid 250 dollars for without putting forward the same price makes YOU the entitled one, not me. I am entitled to them because I spent a significant amount of real world money at a time when the game's future was uncertain. Tell me why you're entitled to getting straight up better versions of them without a similar effort and risk. 

 

No they're not.  Dual skana has a shorter skana as well.  I suppose the time the animations, sounds and coding for dual variants is the same as well to right?  Oh wait.  It's not.

 

A straight upgrade to a weapon that is terrible and dated.  And as I've said, I could care less whether I get these weapons or not.  I've got well over one hundred better ones sitting in my inventory.  And the game's future is no longer uncertain so why should people have to pay that kind of money for bad weapons now?

 

Why should DE have to do a complete 180 on the business model they've been working on with the prime access packs?

 

 

 

Yeah? How does it completely run counter to the philosophy behind the prime access packages?

They're selling you exclusive items for cash, like synadanas and extractors. Throw the skanas and latos in there and put a 200 dollar price tag on them.

Same business model. Same philosophy. Call it "Founders 2.0".

Because the prime access packs have allowed people to buy just the weapons in a cheaper package.  And all the weapons have been put into the void as well.  Think before you type more nonsense please.  DE chose to do this in part because of complaints about how the founders program was tiered.

Edited June 6, 2014 by Aggh

[Mithie]

No they're not.  Dual skana has a shorter skana as well.  I suppose the time the animations, sounds and coding for dual variants is the same as well to right?  Oh wait.  It's not.

 

A straight upgrade to a weapon that is terrible and dated.  And as I've said, I could care less whether I get these weapons or not.  I've got well over one hundred better ones sitting in my inventory.  And the game's future is no longer uncertain so why should people have to pay that kind of money for bad weapons now?

 

Why should DE have to do a complete 180 on the business model they've been working on with the prime access packs?

 

1. Okay. Even if we completely ignore the fact that aklatos are just 2 latos and dual skanas are just one normal sized skana and one stunted one, make a weapon like that but don't call it a dual skana. That's not hard, right? Or are you saying the only reason you want such a weapon is for the name and the name alone? Release a similar weapon (can't be that hard), and call it something else.

 

2. If you don't care about getting these, why are you so passionate about arguing for their release? What benefit could you possibly derive from that? Your only purpose seems to be going on a vendetta against founders.

 

3. Quit dodging the question. Explain to me why DE would have to do a complete 180 on the EXACT SAME BUSINESS MODEL that they're using now for prime access for doing THE EXACT SAME THING with dual founders weapons. 

Edited June 6, 2014 by mithie2

[.__Chiyo__.]

yaa before that we had Founder(all ) vs Non founder  over ex prime

now we have Founder (grandmaster ) argument with Founder (< hunter) over limited weapon.

yup

 

why founder thing alway had problem.

Edited June 6, 2014 by Goffee