RoboDoge Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 (edited) Only change that Loki and Rhino should/might get are sustainable Invisibility and Iron Skin. While they are active, let them drain energy. Same as Absorb and Sound Quake. I was always puzzled why Invisibility doesnt drain energy instead of using one set amount of the same. Loki Radial Disarm is great, but take that away from Loki and you will have even more duration noobs running around. Loki is only frame that isnt damage based and he should stay as it is. Decoy- situational. Useless when mobs start to bring it down in 3-4 shots. Invisibility- great, but i use it rarely. Doesnt provide god mode as people say here as i died crapload of times from random Napalm, Bomber, Corpus Tech, Toxic Ancient etc. Switch Teleport- situational, but very good. Amount of uses for this one is infinite. Radial Disarm- people do forget that while RD makes 2 factions dance, it is useless against Infested. So yes, Loki makes everything melee, but try to take a hit from that disarmed Heavy Gunner at level 80+. And OP is quite shortsighted as his views are only based on solo play. If you ever used Loki in team as much as i did, you would have known that Loki cannot survive on its own even if he does have Invisibility. Go out of Invisibility for a second and hitscan Grineer one shots you because he can. Or simply get slash proc from level 80+ mob and go Invisible. I wonder how that will go. Edited June 7, 2014 by RoboDoge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hexagoros Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 (edited) So after "balancing" Frost, Trinity & Nova I usually have 2 Rhinos every mission with some bonus Loki. Rhino...while most of frames have 1 usefull combat ability and 1-2 ok combat ability, he has 3 very usefull combat abilities, while his ult was always as good as Nova's pre-nerf ult, range 36m, 1600dmg for 50 mana. And Loki: Frost/Trinity godmode isn't ok, but Loki godmode is ok? Wow. Such Loki. Much Rhino. Very Balance. What, exactly, would you nerf on Rhino? Iron Skin is garbage late game, and other frames have much better cc. Edited June 7, 2014 by Hexagoros Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azawarau Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 Only change that Loki and Rhino should/might get are sustainable Invisibility and Iron Skin. While they are active, let them drain energy. Same as Absorb and Sound Quake. I was always puzzled why Invisibility doesnt drain energy instead of using one set amount of the same. Loki Radial Disarm is great, but take that away from Loki and you will have even more duration noobs running around. Loki is only frame that isnt damage based and he should stay as it is. Decoy- situational. Useless when mobs start to bring it down in 3-4 shots. Invisibility- great, but i use it rarely. Doesnt provide god mode as people say here as i died crapload of times from random Napalm, Bomber, Corpus Tech, Toxic Ancient etc. Switch Teleport- situational, but very good. Amount of uses for this one is infinite. Radial Disarm- people do forget that while RD makes 2 factions dance, it is useless against Infested. So yes, Loki makes everything melee, but try to take a hit from that disarmed Heavy Gunner at level 80+. And OP is quite shortsighted as his views are only based on solo play. If you ever used Loki in team as much as i did, you would have known that Loki cannot survive on its own even if he does have Invisibility. Go out of Invisibility for a second and hitscan Grineer one shots you because he can. Or simply get slash proc from level 80+ mob and go Invisible. I wonder how that will go. Stop and throw down a team energy restore of have a trinity occasionally use E Vamp on an enemy that you just stand by for a few seconds ._, Perma invisibility loki would be too easy to get away with... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azawarau Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 What, exactly, would you nerf on Rhino? Iron Skin is garbage late game, and other frames have much better cc. Make iron skin scale with his armor Leave his other skills as are because honestly theyre great Remove his extra leg... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoboDoge Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 Stop and throw down a team energy restore of have a trinity occasionally use E Vamp on an enemy that you just stand by for a few seconds ._, Perma invisibility loki would be too easy to get away with... Afaik Loki doesnt have E Vampire as a power. And yes, perma Invisibility is total immunity as i hear. When you invisible you dont take any damage? I heard people say that but dont know if that is true. Because it is 100 % similar to original Iron Skin and Blessing. Works 100 % like these two? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azawarau Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 Afaik Loki doesnt have E Vampire as a power. And yes, perma Invisibility is total immunity as i hear. When you invisible you dont take any damage? I heard people say that but dont know if that is true. Because it is 100 % similar to original Iron Skin and Blessing. Works 100 % like these two? Better than iron skin You cant be aggrod so you dont have to worry as much about things aggroing and shooting at you or finding you where you hide between casts You also get a 4x melee modifier You could just sit next to an energy restore or have a trinity E vamp for you like i said earlier and stay perma invisible Itd be too strong unless enemies had some way to detect you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoboDoge Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 Better than iron skin You cant be aggrod so you dont have to worry as much about things aggroing and shooting at you or finding you where you hide between casts You also get a 4x melee modifier You could just sit next to an energy restore or have a trinity E vamp for you like i said earlier and stay perma invisible Itd be too strong unless enemies had some way to detect you You know what was original IS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azawarau Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 You know what was original IS? Yes, yes i do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landwalrus Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 Frost is slow, Nova can't take a single shot. These ave very biased arguments, really. Hey hey, no hate here, I'm here for the sake of the Holy Balance™. If I follow your logic, there was no godmode with Frost either. Yeah, totally That wasn't even biased, but if you're at least going to point out bias (existant or not) cite some evidence or reasoning. So, let us consider: Frost is slow but has an AOE bullet blocker, Nova can't take a single shot but is a nuker/highdamage and speed monkey, whereas Loki can't take a shot and goes invisible... but is not invulnerable while invisible, so stray fire can still get you, and Rhino is slow but has some okay damage stalling and cc... Nothing particularly OP, just easy to use in general pubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azawarau Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 Wave 70 Nova 400 shield Face tanking lvl 70 corpus Lowering their attack speed to such slow levels that theyre useless in terms of damage Just saying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landwalrus Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 (edited) Wave 70 Nova 400 shield Face tanking lvl 70 corpus Lowering their attack speed to such slow levels that theyre useless in terms of damage Just saying I've never seen anyone do this, and wouldn't do it myself. I get scrubbed by the supra carrying big'uns even when they're primed- at LOW levels. We should seriously consider personal anecdotes and bad, or even biased evidence. Edited June 8, 2014 by Landwalrus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoboDoge Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 Yes, yes i do Member since 13/01/2014. I hardly believe you ever experienced what OLD IRON SKIN is. You dont know about crying if you werent here when OLD IRON SKIN was nerfed. Nova and Trinity crying cannot even compare. And comparing Invisibility to OLD IRON SKIN is just dumb thing to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatpig84 Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 Tweaking enemies behaviour to invisibility will go a long way to balance loki without directly nerfing his skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azawarau Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 I've never seen anyone do this, and wouldn't do it myself. I get scrubbed by the supra carrying big'uns even when they're primed- at LOW levels. We should seriously consider personal anecdotes and bad, or even biased evidence. Ill go grab my friend who always dies while switching to skype and well do it again while recording just for you Member since 13/01/2014. I hardly believe you ever experienced what OLD IRON SKIN is. You dont know about crying if you werent here when OLD IRON SKIN was nerfed. Nova and Trinity crying cannot even compare. And comparing Invisibility to OLD IRON SKIN is just dumb thing to do. You asked if i KNEW about it Not if i experienced it Its about as bad as trinity using old blessing and link so i have a pretty good idea Dont talk about dumb when youre the one being dumb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tar_Spit_Fire Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarash2110 Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 rhino prime needs a nerf to speed, because he is pretty much at the top with all stats, loki really isn't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeripheralVisionary Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 Rhino and Loki are perfectly balanced....I think. Iron Skin is fragile, don't know if Decoy is hp base or time based. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azawarau Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 Rhino and Loki are perfectly balanced....I think. Iron Skin is fragile, don't know if Decoy is hp base or time based. Iron skin is broken to a point and then kinda useless ._. Like It takes all those little hits your shields could more than cover so your energy is wasted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarlockk Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 People are you crazy? You know why Rhino everywhere? Because: NERF NOVA..nerfed NERF Trinity....Nerfed BUFF Loki...Buffed. NERF Frost ...Nerfed Buff Saryn...nothing so far Buff Valkyr...still not that great comparing to others other than certain stuations Embers abilities similar...Reworked with no overheat Nyx uses only chaos 3 other trash....Now cry OP And you ask why Rhino and Loki only. Thanks to people like you who ask nerfs only or game too easy and enemies gets buffed. LEAVE NERF GUN SOMEWHERE IN DARKNESS AND FORGET ABOUT IT!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tar_Spit_Fire Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 Iron skin is broken to a point and then kinda useless ._. Like It takes all those little hits your shields could more than cover so your energy is wasted iron skin is broken?! sir would you spare sometime and sit down with me and talk about jesus christ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarlockk Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 iron skin is broken?! sir would you spare sometime and sit down with me and talk about jesus christ? He meant Broken for lvl 1-15 enemies because they hardly do damage, after lvl 30 it dies too fast. After lvl 70 useless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tar_Spit_Fire Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 People are you crazy? You know why Rhino everywhere? Because: NERF NOVA..nerfed NERF Trinity....Nerfed BUFF Loki...Buffed. NERF Frost ...Nerfed Buff Saryn...nothing so far Buff Valkyr...still not that great comparing to others other than certain stuations Embers abilities similar...Reworked with no overheat Nyx uses only chaos 3 other trash....Now cry OP And you ask why Rhino and Loki only. Thanks to people like you who ask nerfs only or game too easy and enemies gets buffed. LEAVE NERF GUN SOMEWHERE IN DARKNESS AND FORGET ABOUT IT!!! YOU... YOU!!! Ohohohohoho, FINALLY A SURVIVOR!!!! YOU MAINTAINED YOUR SANITY!!! YOU HAVE A CALL SON!!! MAY THE LIGHT OF RnGSUS SHINE UPON YOU!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tar_Spit_Fire Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 (edited) He meant Broken for lvl 1-15 enemies because they hardly do damage, after lvl 30 it dies too fast. After lvl 70 useless mmm, not sure about you guys... but i done a max strength build on iron skin and its still pretty tanky and life-saving on most of the time... *of course im coptering around most of the time Edited June 8, 2014 by Tar_Spit_Fire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarlockk Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 mmm, not sure about you guys... but i done a max strength build on iron skin and it still pretty tanky and life-saving on most of the time... *of course im coptering around most of the time I am using Rank 8 Blind Rage and maxed intensify and i dont copter. Prefer style points so Orthos Prime/Reaper Prime with me. As a result I recieve almost every Bullet into my face. But to be honest after getting rhino prime and formaing 3 times(i have every slot polarised) I managed to make amazing roar build with huge damage buff. So i prefer Roar over Iron Skin in higher levels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azawarau Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 People are you crazy? You know why Rhino everywhere? Because: NERF NOVA..nerfed NERF Trinity....Nerfed BUFF Loki...Buffed. NERF Frost ...Nerfed Buff Saryn...nothing so far Buff Valkyr...still not that great comparing to others other than certain stuations Embers abilities similar...Reworked with no overheat Nyx uses only chaos 3 other trash....Now cry OP And you ask why Rhino and Loki only. Thanks to people like you who ask nerfs only or game too easy and enemies gets buffed. LEAVE NERF GUN SOMEWHERE IN DARKNESS AND FORGET ABOUT IT!!! Nova was reworked/buffed Trinity was reworked Frost shield was broken and i cant remember how his 4 changed anymore so no comment on that Saryn is great Valkyr is one of the best frames and easily a top tier damage dealer Nyx is one of the best frames in game Rhino needs work and loki does too iron skin is broken?! sir would you spare sometime and sit down with me and talk about jesus christ? No thank you Before lvl 40ish its great After that its pretty bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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