Extreme Lack Of Difficulty

[touchmyoldsnake]

I've been playing this game for a week now, and the first thing I thought was "Wow, this game is really easy." Now I can say that, after two weeks of playing this game, "This game is still way too easy." In all honesty, the only thing that offers difficulty is the defense missions after wave 15. That's. It. This game isn't going to last most people for long if you can just blow through everything with one level 30 supercharged primary gun.

Another main issue why I'm being heavily deterred from this game is that every level feels like a grind. There's no uniqueness to any of the levels. A good possible fix to this would be to spawn a random boss or encounter on every mission. Another thing to help alleviate this would be to make the grunts much more dangerous, capable of instagibbing players. The best thing they can do is stun you some, and for any player with shield/hp mods (which is most), it will only be an inconvenience. The grunts can be blown through fairly easily, and each level, even pluto, can be literally run through.

In short, please make this game much more difficult so the game feels less of a grind and more like a game :(

[Gestalt]

Uh... defense missions under 26 are all easy (from my experience at least, with competent group of players).

If you still feel the game is difficult, remove any Vitality and Redirection or even Steel Fiber mods you have on, which will make you slightly squishier, and at the same time allow you to have more slots for more interesting mods like enemy radar or faster run/more stamina.

Oh, and with regard to the game feeling like a grind, I suppose it can definitely feel like that if you rely too much on your guns. I love this game and will continue to play it for hundreds of hours to come, but there's something to be said about the shooter part of the game, being somewhat blend. Without the melee and ability use and acrobatics, this is unfortunately a sub-par shooter. So it's up to DE to make meleeing/using abilities/wallrunning/pulling off flips and stuff more rewarding and more practical in combat.

However, if you think of this game as a grind since there aren't* many levels/tilesets to experience, bosses/enemies types to kill, weapons/classes to level, then that's rather a fundamental makeup of the game, since it's a shooter with rpg elements, and not an rpg from the ground up. The "proper" way to enjoy this title is to have fun with the action, while seeing the "item progression" as a bonus. If you're in it for the progression while action takes a backseat, you might want to reconsider if this game is for you.

Edited April 7, 2013 by Gestalt

[touchmyoldsnake]

You're trying to suggest to me that I should have to greatly handicap myself. No game should ever force you to do that. Just because there are a few people who are either that bad or have that little understanding of game mechanics that they actually die frequently doesn't mean that the rest of us should take a ride on the easy train. If you are that upset with the gun portion of the mechanics, then its up to the devs to say "Hey, we should implement mobs that are very resistant to guns! This will make melee weapons much more viable!" I won't ever handicap myself to cater to my difficulty needs because I'm not that great to begin with, and if I'm literally running through the map and ignoring half of the mobs and beating each mission on pluto in less than 5 minutes, that's a problem for a lot of people, not just me.

[x1gma]

Well, you probably got extremely good mods, and a competent group.

I would not consider me bad at this game, and im not terribly modded (playing mainly with my supercharged Braton, with 50 freeze, 30 crit damage, 70 serration, 20 multi, 50 piercing hit, 15 crit chance, frame mods mainly utility and some more shields and vit), but (I think it was) the 3rd last alert I did had Assasination of a level 84 boss. That was pretty much impossible. Group was bad tbh, we had a guy with I think max 300-400 shields who just refused to keep distance lol.

I also feel that the game gets a lot more easier when youre in a good group. And by good I dont mean the guys that leave you with 5% damage done in the after game screen, but just an even group where everyone knows how to play his frame and gun, and with decent mods of course.

If you want to experience a real challenge, the "hardcore" mode, try playing solo, it is a LOT harder. You can also set challnges for yourself, play with maximum 15 mod power points, maximum 5 power per mod, no frame mods, etc. etc. Theres actually a lot of challenge in this game if you decide to not steamroll everything. I agree to some extent, but I really do not think Warframe is to easy.

[vieuxchat]

Playing with paris is a bit more challenging. It's really fun to be able to stealth your way with it.

[Gestalt]

It's not really handicap if you think about it. If you're not having any difficulty with Eris/Pluto enemies in terms of risk of dying, then the extra shields/hp are just a waste, and having more stamina/speed/radar are actually quite nice and improve the gameplay quiet a bit.

And from my experience playing on Kiliken... I'd have to say quite a lot of players (old and new) are fairly bad at avoiding death, unfortunately. People just drop dead like flies and require revive on a constant basis (even during early waves like 1-10), so I wouldn't say the percentage of players who find the game hard (or at least not easy or trivial) to be negligible.

[Gestalt]

I won't ever handicap myself to cater to my difficulty needs because I'm not that great to begin with, and if I'm literally running through the map and ignoring half of the mobs and beating each mission on pluto in less than 5 minutes, that's a problem for a lot of people, not just me.

Also, if you're speedrunning through the entire level, that's pretty much exactly what the devs don't want you to do. I suppose you can ask them to implement a sort of room-clear requirement mechanic, like maybe getting the enemy to do a lockdown a lot easier and more frequently? So you're forced to not just run through everything.

[touchmyoldsnake]

Also, if you're speedrunning through the entire level, that's pretty much exactly what the devs don't want you to do. I suppose you can ask them to implement a sort of room-clear requirement mechanic, like maybe getting the enemy to do a lockdown a lot easier and more frequently? So you're forced to not just run through everything.

Pluto is meant to be the hardest planet. The fact that it's not challenging me at all is a problem; Pluto should be a planet for players with really good mods, and 4 man groups, imo. It shouldn't be solo'd so easily by some jackass (me in this case) with a 30 supercharged shotgun. Honestly speaking, all I really need is a shield capacity mod and I'm good. Everything else is just extra. Melee and sidearms are unneeded. I, for one, would LOVE to see melee do more because nothing is more satisfying than cleaving enemies in two. It's just so much more effective to shoot them, however.

[J-Pax]

You're trying to suggest to me that I should have to greatly handicap myself. No game should ever force you to do that. Just because there are a few people who are either that bad or have that little understanding of game mechanics that they actually die frequently doesn't mean that the rest of us should take a ride on the easy train. If you are that upset with the gun portion of the mechanics, then its up to the devs to say "Hey, we should implement mobs that are very resistant to guns! This will make melee weapons much more viable!" I won't ever handicap myself to cater to my difficulty needs because I'm not that great to begin with, and if I'm literally running through the map and ignoring half of the mobs and beating each mission on pluto in less than 5 minutes, that's a problem for a lot of people, not just me.

I can see you're not up-to-date on features planned. The Dev's have said that some people find it too hard, some find it too easy, etc. They'll be introducing a difficulty setting to the game at some point so you can adjust the difficulty yourself, and possibly customize scenarios to benefit/handicap yourself.

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/23034-771-hot-fix-about-last-night/

Edited April 7, 2013 by J-Pax

[LordLokai]

Also, if you're speedrunning through the entire level, that's pretty much exactly what the devs don't want you to do. I suppose you can ask them to implement a sort of room-clear requirement mechanic, like maybe getting the enemy to do a lockdown a lot easier and more frequently? So you're forced to not just run through everything.

bad idea this makes stealthing an issue which is something want to do, you cant really stop speed runs but, should discourage it i think an easier answer is to make boxes drop mods, and weapon blue prints and such rather then just ammo and health a orbs,

[J-Pax]

Pluto is an easy planet because it's corpus. They're inaccurate as hell, they're - by far - the easiest to kill and half of their mobs either don't do damage or require you to stand on the big glowy ball of insignificant damage to do so. Try Sedna.

[touchmyoldsnake]

Pluto is an easy planet because it's corpus. They're inaccurate as hell, they're - by far - the easiest to kill and half of their mobs either don't do damage or require you to stand on the big glowy ball of insignificant damage to do so. Try Sedna.

I already have all the systems cleared. Not every mission beat, but available. No challenge is to be had :/

[Aerensiniac]

Uh... defense missions under 26 are all easy (from my experience at least, with competent group of players).

Why in the god damn hell do i see this comment every time difficulty comes up?

Do you know what endless defense is?

Its a crap script that increases spawn health and damage to the infinite.

Do you know what this makes your comment?

Yes. It makes it sound completely $&*&*#(%& and demented along with every each person who ever bought up defense in a game difficulty topic.

Please be so kind and chin up.

Warframe is not about that minigame. If you think the point of warframe is defense missions, then god help us all.

How about general missions with an actual objective?

How about assassination, spy, deception, capture, exterminate, raid?

How about boss battles?

"Oh but thou art wrong dear sir cause endless defense is actually quite difficult, and im saying that because im completely unable to understand the meaning and concept of "ENDLESS"

Please for the love of god. Use a bit of common sense.

And the OP is right.

I was completing missions on Eris with a completely new, unranked, unmodded frost.

I leveled up on level 5 difficulty infestation missions and i am mighty god damn interested in how people find this game difficult.

You know when the game is difficult? Thats right, when you are irredeemably stupid and think you can stand in the middle of crossfires and infested unpunished.

Thats just about the ONLY EXCLUSIVE way to die in warframe at present and in regards of the trolling that is to come on this post:

Thank you for your time.

Have a nice day

Edited April 7, 2013 by Aerensiniac

[PhantomWay]

You're trying to suggest to me that I should have to greatly handicap myself. No game should ever force you to do that. Just because there are a few people who are either that bad or have that little understanding of game mechanics that they actually die frequently doesn't mean that the rest of us should take a ride on the easy train. If you are that upset with the gun portion of the mechanics, then its up to the devs to say "Hey, we should implement mobs that are very resistant to guns! This will make melee weapons much more viable!" I won't ever handicap myself to cater to my difficulty needs because I'm not that great to begin with, and if I'm literally running through the map and ignoring half of the mobs and beating each mission on pluto in less than 5 minutes, that's a problem for a lot of people, not just me.

Not true.

Usually when you try some FPS like Modern warfare 2 (Call of duty) they will give you a "choise": Easy, Normal, Hard.

Each mode give you more or less hp, or change enemy damage/accuracy. Same go for Gears of War and other games.

Even in Hitman series you got the Difficulty select, less hp, no enemy shown in minimap etc...

Even at League of Legends (coop) got 2 difficulty...

Even Tetris got Difficulty...

The developer made "accessible" Pluto for those people want the Blueprint of Excalibur.

It's not like you can access to the all the Warframe in the beginning...(without Platinum i mean)

"Hey, we should implement mobs that are very resistant to guns! This will make melee weapons much more viable!"

Interesting point. When i was going to kill Hyena with Braton (rank 22) with some mod (not super-charged) and Furis (rank 21), He was almost Immune... That time i got Loki, and for my luck, I have on me Scindo (rank 26), so I charge attacked him while Invisible, so at the end I killed him, completed the mission...

[holdenagincourt]

Someone proposing sync kills be added...please tell me this is a troll.

I'm all for making certain enemies more difficult in certain ways (e.g. all Crewmen variants need a survivability buff, especially Prod Crewmen), but sync kills are the textbook definition of fake difficulty and usually just exist to paper over the flaws of an enemy that is otherwise mediocre (Banshee in ME3, e.g.).

Are you using Hek? Because that might be why you find shooting enemies to be more effective than melee...it's one of the most unbalanced weapons in the game right now. Melee is effective, especially if you know which variants of melee to use when, and against which enemies. And it's not always less effective than guns btw, especially on fast frames.

Basically, your lack of a challenge seems to come down to you using a very good weapon, supercharged, crammed full of upgraded mods, on a frame that's probably also supercharged, against enemies that can generally be one-shotted. The problem is that if the game is altered to make playing under these conditions substantially more difficult, players without this high degree of optimization will be penalized unduly.

To be honest, I think the game is in a good difficulty place after 7.7, but as I suggested above, certain enemies need some tweaks. My main priority at this point would be disincentivizing rushing rather than cranking up enemies (I think) unnecessarily.

[letir]

Overcharged Strun with maxed mods devastate everything. Who need this "effective" melee? Pretty realistic.

[Gestalt]

Why in the god damn hell do i see this comment every time difficulty comes up?

Do you know what endless defense is?

Its a crap script that increases spawn health and damage to the infinite.

Do you know what this makes your comment?

Yes. It makes it sound completely $&*&*#(%& and demented along with every each person who ever bought up defense in a game difficulty topic.

What? I was referencing the OP's claim that endless defense waves beyond 16 are difficult, by pointing out that from my experience, anything 25 or under are reasonable easy even in online pickup groups, assuming no afker or completely clueless players.

I wasn't using defense missions as a gauge of the game's general difficulty at all. It was just strange to me that the OP said the entire game is easy (regular missions, including raid/spy/sabotage etc), while saying defense 15 is difficult.

"Oh but thou art wrong dear sir cause endless defense is actually quite difficult, and im saying that because im completely unable to understand the meaning and concept of "ENDLESS"

I'm not quite sure why the defense missions being endless means you cannot talk about the difficulty of individual waves. Obviously some people with more coordination/better gear/more optimized builds/group synergy will be able to survive the later waves like 30+ (which I've never gotten to, mostly due to ppl leaving -__-). I don't think anyone here has said something like "endless defense is difficult!" w/o mentioning specific waves, except you in your mock-quotation.

Edited April 7, 2013 by Gestalt

[Nevara]

Have to agree with the OP, it is too easy, im soloing missions with a boar and clearing everything out. (in a rhino) the difficulty needs to be ramped WAAAAY up.

And no, i won't handicap myself, it's the game developers job to make the game as challenging as possible, not mine.

[Nevara]

How about a pluto mission, with nothing but stalkers?

[LunarWind]

Imagine you are playing Doom 2 again.

You hack the game to give your weapons +300% damage, give yourself +400% health, and add in another 400% regenerating armor.

Then you complain that the game is not hard enough.

What the hell were you thinking?

Taking off your vitality and redirection mods is not "Handicapping" yourself, it's un-godmode-ing yourself.

If you have enough skill that you don't NEED elevated health and shields, then get rid of them.

Games do not succeed by becoming so difficult that only 20% of the playerbase can complete the hardest areas.

To rebalance the game around your specific skill-set would be SUICIDE for Warframe.

This conversation reminds me of a friend who bought Skyrim, hacked his character to have insane stats, and then complained it was a boring game and quit playing after 3 days.

I just ... I don't even know how you people can say that the developers need to make the game harder.

You gave yourself +400% shields, so now you want the devs to give enemies +400% damage? Why? So the game can be like it was before you had mods?

You gave your weapon +300% damage, and now you want enemies who have enough HP that you don't kill them in one shot? Why? So the game plays like it did before you had mods?

Edited April 7, 2013 by LunarWind

[Nevara]

Imagine you are playing Doom 2 again.

You hack the game to give your weapons +300% damage, give yourself +400% health, and add in another 400% regenerating armor.

Then you complain that the game is not hard enough.

What the hell were you thinking?

Taking off your vitality and redirection mods is not "Handicapping" yourself, it's un-godmode-ing yourself.

If you have enough skill that you don't NEED elevated health and shields, then get rid of them.

Games do not succeed by becoming so difficult that only 20% of the playerbase can complete the hardest areas.

To rebalance the game around your specific skill-set would be SUICIDE for Warframe.

This conversation reminds me of a friend who bought Skyrim, hacked his character to have insane stats, and then complained it was a boring game and quit playing after 3 days.

I just ... I don't even know how you people can say that the developers need to make the game harder.

You gave yourself +400% shields, so now you want the devs to give enemies +400% damage? Why? So the game can be like it was before you had mods?

You gave your weapon +300% damage, and now you want enemies who have enough HP that you don't kill them in one shot? Why? So the game plays like it did before you had mods?

Jesus christ, did you equate having great mods to hacking? You did didn't you?? Unbelievable...

Edited April 7, 2013 by Nevara

[Aerensiniac]

What? I was referencing the OP's claim that endless defense waves beyond 16 are difficult, by pointing out that from my experience, anything 25 or under are reasonable easy even in online pickup groups, assuming no afker or completely clueless players.

I wasn't using defense missions as a gauge of the game's general difficulty at all. It was just strange to me that the OP said the entire game is easy (regular missions, including raid/spy/sabotage etc), while saying defense 15 is difficult.

I'm not quite sure why the defense missions being endless means you cannot talk about the difficulty of individual waves. Obviously some people with more coordination/better gear/more optimized builds/group synergy will be able to survive the later waves like 30+ (which I've never gotten to, mostly due to ppl leaving -__-). I don't think anyone here has said something like "endless defense is difficult!" w/o mentioning specific waves, except you in your mock-quotation.

Dont take it personally Gestalt.

Its just that "defense" somehow always gets mixed in difficulty conversations and acts as a strawman.

The OP's post was in the negative when i wrote what i wrote, and it &!$$ed me off cause he is making a valid argument and gets hate in return, but no real arguments against.

Once again: Not personal and not meant to offend you. I just raged out because it seemed that this topic will be derailed too.

Edited April 7, 2013 by Aerensiniac

[Pixues]

Imagine you are playing Doom 2 again.

You hack the game to give your weapons +300% damage, give yourself +400% health, and add in another 400% regenerating armor.

Then you complain that the game is not hard enough.

What the hell were you thinking?

Taking off your vitality and redirection mods is not "Handicapping" yourself, it's un-godmode-ing yourself.

If you have enough skill that you don't NEED elevated health and shields, then get rid of them.

Games do not succeed by becoming so difficult that only 20% of the playerbase can complete the hardest areas.

To rebalance the game around your specific skill-set would be SUICIDE for Warframe.

This conversation reminds me of a friend who bought Skyrim, hacked his character to have insane stats, and then complained it was a boring game and quit playing after 3 days.

I just ... I don't even know how you people can say that the developers need to make the game harder.

You gave yourself +400% shields, so now you want the devs to give enemies +400% damage? Why? So the game can be like it was before you had mods?

You gave your weapon +300% damage, and now you want enemies who have enough HP that you don't kill them in one shot? Why? So the game plays like it did before you had mods?

This................is not how difficulty in gaming works..

[LunarWind]

Jesus christ, did you equate having great mods to hacking? You did didn't you?? Unbelievable...

Yes. I equated giving yourself a bonus to health and damage via hacking, to giving yourself identicle increases via a game mechanic.

Don't like it? How about this, I'll re-work it for you.

You're playing Gears of War 6, and after the tutorial you choose easy difficulty. All this choice does is make you have +300% health and +300% damage. Same number of enemies, same AI, same levels and ammo drops. Now you complain that the extra health makes the game feel too easy.

Warframe is amazing because it lets you choose your gameplay flavor.

Do you want combat to be fast-paced and murderous? Takes tons of +dmg mods and abstain from using +hp or +shields. Now everyone (including you) dies quickly and the blood is everywhere.

Want slower paced gameplay? Ignore damage mods, but pack yourself with +hp and +shields. Now both you AND the enemies take a lot to go down, making repositioning during a fight a feasible tactic to execute. Also, bring +ammo mods for longevity.

Want to play easy mode? Mods your weapons AND warframe for tons of +everything! You'll be better than the enemies in every way, and probably encounter few situations that genuinely challenge you. Perfect for people who have slow reflexes, bad eye sight, or other factors which limit them from becoming the top 20% playerbase in terms of skill.

Really, it's all about having the freedom to build the game you feel like playing. Please, exercise your right, your creativity, and design your own difficulty.

[touchmyoldsnake]

Imagine you are playing Doom 2 again.

You hack the game to give your weapons +300% damage, give yourself +400% health, and add in another 400% regenerating armor.

Then you complain that the game is not hard enough.

What the hell were you thinking?

Taking off your vitality and redirection mods is not "Handicapping" yourself, it's un-godmode-ing yourself.

If you have enough skill that you don't NEED elevated health and shields, then get rid of them.

Games do not succeed by becoming so difficult that only 20% of the playerbase can complete the hardest areas.

To rebalance the game around your specific skill-set would be SUICIDE for Warframe.

This conversation reminds me of a friend who bought Skyrim, hacked his character to have insane stats, and then complained it was a boring game and quit playing after 3 days.

I just ... I don't even know how you people can say that the developers need to make the game harder.

You gave yourself +400% shields, so now you want the devs to give enemies +400% damage? Why? So the game can be like it was before you had mods?

You gave your weapon +300% damage, and now you want enemies who have enough HP that you don't kill them in one shot? Why? So the game plays like it did before you had mods?

There's a MASSIVE difference between cheating and the game allowing you to do it. The devs wanted you to put mods in so that you would be ABLE to do the harder missions, as in struggle, but can still very easily die, not herpderp your way through it with incredulous ease. If you still don't get it, you never will. I've seen people play call of duty on the easiest difficulty and die more in that game than on here.