Why Are Accessories So Useless?

[(PSN)kcarpe2007]

Weeding through the continued verbosity and contradictory replies, these questions still beg to be addressed.

Is appearance the ultimate goal in this game, or skillful and progressive playing?

Is giving minor stat boosts to armor pieces, helmets, and syandanas promoting "game-breaking" dynamics? If the finicky player with a highly evolved sense of fashion does not possess them, are they hopelessly "gimped"? (For most of these stats, arcane helmets for example, a simple leveling up of the corresponding mod even just 1 rank would suffice).

It seems the mature yet silent players are more concerned about Tenno skill or in-mission maturity(or lack thereof), rather than whether their fellow Tenno's AOE ability extends 5m or 7m, whether their health is 420 or 446, or if their color scheme or Daedalus armor accentuates their bum.

If a player who believes function supersedes form chooses to acquire something that gives them a little extra "boost", what is it to you?

**** The unspoken yet glaring problem prevalent in this thread is that for the typical Prima Donna the word "boost" translates to an "edge" or "advantage". By them this will not be tolerated, and invariably you have the originators of the majority of "plz nerf" threads ******

And by the way, to those who persistently yet articulately whine, "but that makes this game Pay to Win", I ask you this:

Win WHAT? An ego-boost? Bragging rights on a worthless leaderboard? Means to a more effective resumè to acquire that dream job? A hot chick with a six pack of Bud? Cookies?

Groan. No, the only choices that these players are obsessed with are the ones that ONLY benefit them or assuage their inflated or bruised egos. Team mentality or platinum purchasing be damned.

You are transforming this game into a "Whine To Win" most certainly.

Edited June 27, 2014 by (PS4)kcarpe2007

[PeripheralVisionary]

Win WHAT? An ego-boost? Bragging rights on a worthless leaderboard? A more effective resûme to acquire profitable employment? A hot chick with a six pack of Bud? Cookies?

Don't we already have pay2win?

Buying a gun premade, forma, orokin catalysts, etc?

[(PSN)kcarpe2007]

Not the point.

[(PSN)Bobtm0]

Again, weeding through the continued verbosity and contradictory replies, these questions still beg to be addressed.

Are aesthetics the ultimate goal in this game or skillful and progressive playing?

Are giving minor stat boosts to armor pieces, helmets, and syandanas game-breaking elements that if the finicky player with a highly evolved sense of fashion does not possess them they are hopelessly "gimped"? (For most of these stats, arcane helmets for example, a simple leveling up of the corresponding mod even just 1 rank would suffice).

It seems the mature yet silent players are more concerned about Tenno skill or in-mission maturity(or lack thereof), rather than whether their fellow Tenno's AOE ability extends 5m or 7m, whether their health is 420 or 446, or if their color scheme or Daedalus armor accentuates their bum.

If a player who believes function supersedes form chooses to acquire something that gives them a little extra "boost", what is it to you?

**** The unspoken yet glaring problem prevalent in this thread is that for the typical Prima Donna the word "boost" translates to an "edge" or "advantage". This will not be tolerated, and invariably you have the originators of the majority of "plz nerf" threads. ******

And by the way, to those who persistently yet articulately whine, "but that makes this game Pay to Win", I ask you this:

Win WHAT? An ego-boost? Bragging rights on a worthless leaderboard? A more effective resûme to acquire profitable employment? A hot chick with a six pack of Bud? Cookies?

Groan. No, the only choices that these players are obsessed with are the ones that ONLY benefit them or assuage their inflated or bruised egos. Team mentality or platinum purchasing be damned.

You are transforming this game into a "Whine To Win" most certainly.

 

Please, never design a game.  You really lack a core understanding of game balance.

 

Most Arcane helmet stats, the ones with worthwhile boosts of course, not counting the junk ones, had stats that were worth two or more ranks of comparable mods.  Whilst having literally no downside of any merit.  Additionally, they can at times allow the user to fully circumvent utilizing a whole mod slot to get a to a point others need to use two slots to reach.  We're hard capped in the number of mods slots available, so having the ability to save an entire slot is a massive advantage.

 

DE themselves noticed how much of an issue the stat helms caused and removed them, though sadly leaving them in for those already owning them as a gesture of kindness.

 

Just because a game is PVE, doesn't mean balance is pointless.  Nerfs are also quite necessary as are buffs, so of course people who care about the longevity of a game will ask for both when warranted.  The people who shouldn't be tolerated are the ones are the ones who don't understand game balance, yet still provide feedback regardless of that fact.

[BloodArmoredApostle]

Nope, you said you wanted more player customization. You want players to be able to equip certain buffs to customize their playstyle. What I'm asking is this: What does this have to do with cosmetics?

 

You need a visual representation of the buffs you have equiped? But then again.. people don't want to be forced to use cosmetics to get stat benefits. What's the difference between having 4 slots: arms, chest, legs, keychain, whatever and having slots: Buff slot A, Buff slot B, Buff slot C, etc.

 

There's no point or way to tie this into cosmetics without creating unnecessary problems. So what exactly do you want? Do you want stat customization or do you want your stat customization choices to be visually represented on your frame?

 

 

 

 

You want visual representation of the buffs. That's what this post is about. But we've already been through this... tying stats to cosmetics is bad since people don't want to be forced to use cosmetics they don't like to get the stats. So do you just need any armor to get those mods? What if I don't want to use armor? So you don't need any cosmetic to get the buffs then. In that case what is the point? Then it's just arbitrary 4 extra mods slots. Also, are you implying it's plat only in this post? Cause that is terrible idea and certainly wouldn't make everyone happy.

 

I'm not against passive buff system per say... I'm against it having anything to do with cosmetics whatsoever.

 

This topic is about stats on cosmetics: NO, been discussed to death indeed. Stats on cosmetics = problems. Your post is about giving players extra mod slots and doesn't have to do anything with cosmetics.. and it shouldn't.

 

"I want my piece of shoulder jewelry to DO something instead of just looking cool." <- Is what you're saying. Nice of you to mention player customization, too bad it's only a buzzword to push your point. Since tying cosmetics to buffs would essentially force you to forgo your prefered visual customization for stat customization. And yes, NOT using armor is a customization choice that you have to accomodate for.

Um then give them a option not to use the stats on them then....kinda a self resolving issue there. I don't think wearing armor is a cosmetic. If you wear armor. I would think it would to boost something your warframe maybe lacking. The logic on cosmetics is twisted. It is ultimately the players choice in the matter regardless of what your saying here. Already suggested a boost in replacement for the armor if that be the case. Too much "choice" gimps the game actually.

[ArsVampyre]

We had that.  Player whining ruined it.  Now only old-timers like myself still have stat helms, and as time goes on their value will keep going up and up until no one can afford them anymore.

 

So why not? Because reasons.  What's the point of putting on armor plates that don't increase armor?  Reasons.

 

They're not attractive and they cost too much for the 'value' they bring, but if you're floating in plat with nothing to do with it, like many are, that's good enough.

 

The real reason?  Some of the stats on helms people liked were on helms they thought were ugly.  Rather than do without, they whined so they could feel good about themselves making it worse for players who didn't care how it looked but liked the stat changes.  Now we all suffer so they can make you play their way.

 

Same with the nerf to powers.  It's all about controlling how you play to appease a vocal minority who harass the developers into making everything weak, bland, and boring.

 

And the players are leaving.

[grillv20]

why would accessories ever have stats on them? do you really want the game to be pay2win?

[(PSN)Bobtm0]

Um then give them a option not to use the stats on them then....kinda a self resolving issue there. I don't think wearing armor is a cosmetic. If you wear armor. I would think it would to boost something your warframe maybe lacking. The logic on cosmetics is twisted. It is ultimately the players choice in the matter regardless of what your saying here. Already suggested a boost in replacement for the armor if that be the case. Too much "choice" gimps the game actually.

 

To cover the underlined;  That's kind of... well never how things work ever.  People technically had the option to not play as invulnerable forever Trinity, but we all know what happened there.  Just saying people can opt out of something isn't enough to warrant it as an addition when we're talking about over-arching gameplay balance.

 

As for the bold;  It's not really even armor, it's just a few tiny bits of decoration to make your character look unique.  The "armor" is just part of our player model and nothing more.  If a bullet coming from the front strikes our gun for instance, we still take damage as though we were stricken by the attack.  So yeah, just stop thinking of the "armor" as being armor.  All it is, is a decorative attachment.

 

Warframe isn't a standard RPG where we have stock characters that become armored.  In Warframe, we're already entirely armored as it stands.  If you want more armor, just pick a frame who is more armored, as the frame is your armor, not a small frilly decoration.

 

Edit;  The word out and the word our, aren't the same word.  Because typo.

Edited June 27, 2014 by (PS4)Bobtm0

[ArsVampyre]

Please, never design a game.  You really lack a core understanding of game balance.

 

Most Arcane helmet stats, the ones with worthwhile boosts of course, not counting the junk ones, had stats that were worth two or more ranks of comparable mods.  Whilst having literally no downside of any merit.  Additionally, they can at times allow the user to fully circumvent utilizing a whole mod slot to get a to a point others need to use two slots to reach.  We're hard capped in the number of mods slots available, so having the ability to save an entire slot is a massive advantage.

 

DE themselves noticed how much of an issue the stat helms caused and removed them, though sadly leaving them in for those already owning them as a gesture of kindness.

 

Just because a game is PVE, doesn't mean balance is pointless.  Nerfs are also quite necessary as are buffs, so of course people who care about the longevity of a game will ask for both when warranted.  The people who shouldn't be tolerated are the ones are the ones who don't understand game balance, yet still provide feedback regardless of that fact.

No, he has the situation 100% right, and you're the one who's wrong.

 

There's no balance.  There is just you, whining about how you're not as good as them, and making them come down to your level instead of letting them play the way they want.  You're actively killing the game.

[(PSN)Bobtm0]

At the above;  I don't even recall the last time I died in Warframe... so yeah, that's not the case.

 

In a game, for it to actually be a game, some things must be present;

The ability to win.

The ability to lose.

Rules, which force limiters upon the players so that things are handled fairly within regards to the above two rules.

 

Balance is required for a game to thrive.  That, is without exception.

[grillv20]

Um then give them a option not to use the stats on them then....kinda a self resolving issue there. I don't think wearing armor is a cosmetic. If you wear armor. I would think it would to boost something your warframe maybe lacking. The logic on cosmetics is twisted. It is ultimately the players choice in the matter regardless of what your saying here. Already suggested a boost in replacement for the armor if that be the case. Too much "choice" gimps the game actually.

 

I don't understand the last sentence of this post. Are you literally saying that too much choice gimps the game? I don't get it.

[(PSN)kcarpe2007]

Please, never design a game. You really lack a core understanding of game balance.

Most Arcane helmet stats, the ones with worthwhile boosts of course, not counting the junk ones, had stats that were worth two or more ranks of comparable mods. Whilst having literally no downside of any merit. Additionally, they can at times allow the user to fully circumvent utilizing a whole mod slot to get a to a point others need to use two slots to reach. We're hard capped in the number of mods slots available, so having the ability to save an entire slot is a massive advantage.

DE themselves noticed how much of an issue the stat helms caused and removed them, though sadly leaving them in for those already owning them as a gesture of kindness.

Just because a game is PVE, doesn't mean balance is pointless. Nerfs are also quite necessary as are buffs, so of course people who care about the longevity of a game will ask for both when warranted. The people who shouldn't be tolerated are the ones are the ones who don't understand game balance, yet still provide feedback regardless of that fact.

Bob, you do not disappoint. I knew you would be the first to come in with guns a' blazing. You also didn't disappoint me in that you misread or incorrectly magnified certain texts. Add in your colorful propagation of why DE removed stat helms and all that's left to say is "thank you" for proving my point.

Oh, and this: You don't have to be a game designer to know the age-old by products of human nature. Ego and envy are POWERFUL motivators within the consumer, as well as PROFITABLE exploits of the seller. "Balance" derived by appeasing these two facets of human nature is an illusion in comparison to real balance that rewards and encourages maturity and selflessness.

Old news Bob.

Edited June 27, 2014 by (PS4)kcarpe2007

[Ribboz]

I have no incentive to buy any of these accessories since they give me no benefit.

 

Let me know when you introduce cloaks or full bodies like Proto Excalibur. THEN you will have my attention.

 

This game is already pay to live/sleep/not_kill_yourself_endlessly_grinding_with_no_rewards_to_show_for_it. DE cut off a huge amount of options and expansion for our Warframes and Weapons by making cosmetic items only cosmetic. We just need ways to earn cosmetic items other than through purchase. Then they can have all the bonuses and whatnot that we want.

Edited June 27, 2014 by Ribboz

[NixinVictus]

If you buy a passive buff attachment that's invisible because it's invisible, that has everything to do with cosmetics.  Less is often more, my friend.  I am also totally open to mod slotting and polarizing attachments because I love finding new ways to making myself even more completely OP.  Yeah, lets be clear, I am full aware this is about ego.  And to an extent, fun.  For all of you whining about the problems this presents, could you actually try to explain those problems?  Because I'm thinking they don't really exist.  You just don't want others to be able to pay plat for stats.  Even though a lot of people do that anyway right now to get oodles of goodies that everyone else can get for free.  They just do it to get it immediately and in greater quantities.  No matter what, people that pay for this game are going to be more powerful than you.  That is how it works, call it what you want, that is the business model.  That's how every FTP works.

 

If you can never add an innate buff to Armor or mod it, call it . . . Bedazzling . . . Flair . . . Texture packs . . . just not Armor.  It's confusing and dumb.

Edited June 27, 2014 by NixinVictus

[grillv20]

I have no incentive to buy any of these accessories since they give me no benefit.

 

Let me know when you introduce cloaks or full bodies like Proto Excalibur. THEN you will have my attention.

 

This game is already pay to live/sleep/not_kill_yourself_endlessly_grinding_with_no_rewards_to_show_for_it. DE cut off a huge amount of options and expansion for our Warframes and Weapons by making cosmetic items only cosmetic. We just need ways to earn cosmetic items other than through purchase. Then they can have all the bonuses and whatnot that we want.

 

If you want to play a game where the cash shops offer you cosmetic crap with stats on them go play some pay to win korean grind MMO or something. Its warframe. Even the helmets that had stats on them in the first place were basically cosmetic except for maybe 2 of the 12 helmets. You shouldn't NEED an incentive to BUY stupid cosmetic crap thats meant to be entirely cosmetic in the first place. Do you go to wal-mart and get frustrated everytime you pass the jewelry section because you feel the need to buy it all? I doubt it. 

[notionphil]

pay to live/sleep/not_kill_yourself_endlessly_grinding_with_no_rewards_to_show_for_it.

 

I may borrow that. +1

[Phatose]

You'll notice that armor exists only under 'appearance' already.

 

Why limit stat bonuses to armor, since we're now begging for stat bonuses on cosmetics?  How about a Warhammer 20k inspired color pack, "Red ones go faster", which only includes saturated reds and adds +1% to speed for each color channel you use it on?

[grillv20]

Nothing is seriously more annoying than trying a new game and checking out their cash shop and seeing a bunch of pretty things that actually benefit you but you cant have them unless you pull out your credit card. Whats the point in playing a free to play game if you can't be fully satisfied by the free side of things? This is the logical truth behind a free to play game. THOUGH I WILL SAY this game is a lot different. You have the ability to trade items for platinum to actually buy those things in the cash shop. That being said I would have absolutely no problem with it if they were to decide to put stats on cosmetics. I would think it would be stupid of course and extremely lazy game design though.

[grillv20]

You'll notice that armor exists only under 'appearance' already.

 

Why limit stat bonuses to armor, since we're now begging for stat bonuses on cosmetics?  How about a Warhammer 20k inspired color pack, "Red ones go faster", which only includes saturated reds and adds +1% to speed for each color channel you use it on?

 

I vote that they actually go and work on their core of the game instead of dropping even more systems that add to current mechanics into the game that turns the game upside down. 

Edited June 27, 2014 by grillv20

[Phatose]

I vote that they actually go and work on their core of the game instead of dropping even more systems that add to current mechanics into the game that turns the game upside down. 

 

I forgot the smiley to indicate I was being sarcastic, didn't I?

[grillv20]

I forgot the smiley to indicate I was being sarcastic, didn't I?

 

sarcasm through text is lost 80% of the time unless you know who you're talking to lol

[Lorane_Airwing]

Can we let this thread die already? DE already removed stats from helmets, and confirmed they will never be returning for anything armor included.

 

Cosmetics are cosmetic.

 

/thread

[grillv20]

Can we let this thread die already? DE already removed stats from helmets, and confirmed they will never be returning for anything armor included.

 

Cosmetics are cosmetic.

 

/thread

 

Thank you, at least somebody knows how cosmetics work. I remember this one time I got really upset because i tried on a bracelet I really liked and it didn't make me move faster when I walked around the counter.

Edited June 27, 2014 by grillv20

[SirNerdsAlot5]

Custom armor sets should have base stats added to your Warframe instead of being strictly cosmetic. Same goes for Syandanas and Sugatra. I want to actually use some kind of logic when choosing what accessories go on a Warframe or weapon instead of just "Eh, that looks cool." 

 

I understand that they are useless by their very nature as Accessories, but renaming them as Attachments immediately breaks that limiting factor for them. If you're a Rhino with a full set of Daedalus Armor, why not give some kind of added benefit to their armor rating or health and shields? If you're a Volt donning full Eos Armor, why not increase your energy regen or energy efficiency etc.? I'm not asking for game breaking enhancements but just a little boost so you don't feel like you got the attachment just because it looked neat. Give some purpose to our purchase.

 

No they tried that with helmets. People didn't want a stat tied to a certain look.

[BloodArmoredApostle]

To cover the underlined;  That's kind of... well never how things work ever.  People technically had the option to not play as invulnerable forever Trinity, but we all know what happened there.  Just saying people can opt out of something isn't enough to warrant it as an addition when we're talking about over-arching gameplay balance.

 

As for the bold;  It's not really even armor, it's just a few tiny bits of decoration to make your character look unique.  The "armor" is just part of our player model and nothing more.  If a bullet coming from the front strikes our gun for instance, we still take damage as though we were stricken by the attack.  So yeah, just stop thinking of the "armor" as being armor.  All it is, is a decorative attachment.

 

Warframe isn't a standard RPG where we have stock characters that become armored.  In Warframe, we're already entirely armored as it stands.  If you want more armor, just pick a frame who is more armored, as the frame is your armor, not a small frilly decoration.

 

Edit;  The word out and the word our, aren't the same word.  Because typo.

Your words "balance" are subjective and is such due to everyone has their own suggestion of balance. Armor isn't armor, they should rename it then. I doubt anyone would put on flak armor unless it provided some benefit other than a "look cool" feel even though vs someone that doesn't have access to flak jacket armor is at a disadvantage.

 

Yea, I pretty sure we all understand Warframe isn't a standard RPG. There are few games that actually have what warframe presents, but seems the gaming community is used to "It makes me look bad" or whatever they can nick pick to death to whine about without applying common knowledge to the situation. I am not saying however that the Warframe Community doesn't have common knowledge. I am saying that it is sad to see a game that has the lore and basis for these rules to exist and were implemented, but due to the sheer level of complaints and "other" concerns. Things made a unnecessary change.

 

 

Please, never design a game.  You really lack a core understanding of game balance.

 

-snip-

Take your own advice and don't create one yourself. Failing to understand that balance is subjective is fatal to software creation.

 

 

 

I have no incentive to buy any of these accessories since they give me no benefit.

 

Let me know when you introduce cloaks or full bodies like Proto Excalibur. THEN you will have my attention.

 

This game is already pay to live/sleep/not_kill_yourself_endlessly_grinding_with_no_rewards_to_show_for_it. DE cut off a huge amount of options and expansion for our Warframes and Weapons by making cosmetic items only cosmetic. We just need ways to earn cosmetic items other than through purchase. Then they can have all the bonuses and whatnot that we want.

^This right here. The Warframe Community voted and took away a whole level of gameplay because "They don't feel like they look good enough". This is absolutely absurd how that can take precedence over a level of customization in a game. There are other ways to address this rather than the solution of always "subtracting" content from a game. When this game ends up a vanilla FPS due to too much input and "subtraction" then I will watch the forums to see where the community heads. Subtraction in some cases is needed like the Acrid balancing which could still use a buff adjustment (just slightly even though I am not a user of the weapon myself). 

 

 

Nothing is seriously more annoying than trying a new game and checking out their cash shop and seeing a bunch of pretty things that actually benefit you but you cant have them unless you pull out your credit card. Whats the point in playing a free to play game if you can't be fully satisfied by the free side of things? 

Dude, they were added to the alert drop tables and tradable. Your point is moot.

 

 

I vote that they actually go and work on their core of the game instead of dropping even more systems that add to current mechanics into the game that turns the game upside down. 

Correct, that stability is important, but the truth we lost a level of gameplay that wasn't broken due to "opinion" stifles me.