Landwalrus Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) They have clan tiers for a reason. If you don't want to get zerged you should have sticked to a clan tier you can actually maintain and compete in. Its like you hate a blalanced or even remotely fun competition or something. Edited June 24, 2014 by Landwalrus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aggh Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) Its like you hate a blalanced or even remotely fun competition or something. What is blalance? Is it a 4chan thing? It's more that I don't see the value in people competing to see how many times they can repeat the same mission before they pass out from lack of sleep. It's a poor excuse for competition. I feel sorry for anyone that thinks that is fun. Edited June 24, 2014 by Aggh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landwalrus Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 What is blalance? Is it a 4chan thing? You don't even have to be a regular user of 4chan to get into WBP, so the implication that I'm involved with 4chan culture to any major extent is a bit of a stretch. Also, balance is that thing everyone likes to talk about when nova gets involved, I would suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aggh Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 You don't even have to be a regular user of 4chan to get into WBP, so the implication that I'm involved with 4chan culture to any major extent is a bit of a stretch. Also, balance is that thing everyone likes to talk about when nova gets involved, I would suppose. I didn't ask about balance. I asked about blalance :| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landwalrus Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 I didn't ask about balance. I asked about blalance :| How intelligent and mature of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)CrimsonShinku Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 How intelligent and mature of you. guess that's the bell to stop bothering Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponsai Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) What is blalance? Is it a 4chan thing? It's more that I don't see the value in people competing to see how many times they can repeat the same mission before they pass out from lack of sleep. It's a poor excuse for competition. I feel sorry for anyone that thinks that is fun. Honestly you could say that DE hasn't really done anything besides encourage that mindset because all I've experienced in Warframe is mindless grinding. There's nothing else to do besides grind in Warframe, but I suppose everyone has their own definition of what grinding is in Warframe. The current way leader boards are scored don't encourage competition but rather going to the limit and then saying to the competitor that if you went any further it would be unfair because you are working harder than those who don't want to put in the time and dedication for their clan to win. I'm not even apart of Warbros but this sort of thing just makes me wonder why stuff like this isn't prevented any sooner so clans don't get screwed and become rather angry about what happened. Edited June 24, 2014 by Ponsai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-XeqtR Posted June 24, 2014 Author Share Posted June 24, 2014 I got what I wanted out of the event. To me, doing runs past the points I needed to get the Prandal was stupid anyway. I'm not so insecure as to need my name on a leader-board to validate my existence. Clan Leaderboards gives Trophies. I couldn't care less about individual. I recognize that DE made a mistake in that topping the event leaderboards required using exploits because their own system eventually craps out and stops spawning enemies, but after knowingly abusing that very same bug, you have to be aware that there were potential consequences. In fact, it was ridiculous to think you would just get away with it, especially considering how many hotfixes they've put out to fix those exploits. I'm not going to say DE didn't mess up at all, but whining about the issue just makes you seem... really really sad. Seriously, you spent 48-ish hours grinding a video game to top a scoreboard, and for at least a good portion of that time, you weren't running into any enemies. At any point did you stop to consider that you were spending hours and hours running in circles with no actual fighting to get your name on an event leaderboard? If there was a challenge in actually engaging the enemy, that'd be one thing, but... I don't really see how you could have thought this is what DE wanted for the event at all. The answer isn't to just sit idle and wait for the chance that DE will fix their issue while other people top the leader board instead. Would you rather this situation be different. Where I stopped and it's the end of the event and I make a post saying, "It's not fair, the enemies didn't spawn so I did what was "right" and didn't run. I deserve to win!" Then people, just like you, even you, would be coming into that thread and saying it's my own fault for stopping. I didn't go out of my way to ruin the game. Also, as I said to the other one. I don't care about leader boards, I have enough of them. I want my clan to have a trophy, because all of their hard work deserves it. Like I've been saying, everyone I was competing against had the same kind of missions as me. There wasn't any sort unfair advantage, you realize right? If you grinded through the enemy levels as far as I did, you too would have seen the same thing. I understand fixing the bug, but to assume it gave me some sort of advantage over anyone else makes no sense. At the point of the top leaderboards, everyone up there was grinding the same no-enemy missions. Therefore the competition turned into a speed grind competition against the others. It's not like the other top point players under me had enemies and I didn't. Everyone didn't have enemies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aggh Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Honestly you could say that DE hasn't really done anything besides encourage that mindset because all I've experienced in Warframe is mindless grinding. There's nothing else to do besides grind in Warframe, but I suppose everyone has their own definition of what grinding is in Warframe. The current way leader boards are scored don't encourage competition but rather going to the limit and then saying to the competitor that if you went any further it would be unfair because you are working harder than those who don't want to put in the time or dedication for their clan to win. I'm not even apart of Warbros but this sort of thing just makes me wonder why stuff like this isn't prevented any sooner so clans don't get screwed and become rather angry about what happened. True, but the events have done it to an even greater degree than the general game does. You can take a break from the grind of warframe, but if you actually care about the leader boards you're not really given that option. Calling a 48+ hour grind hard work/competition/dedication is a stretch. When you're losing sleep over a video game you've stepped past mere dedication and more into the realm of having a problem. The fact that warbros still hasn't learned their lesson after having had points slashed for exploits in two previous events (something any rational group of people would recognize) illustrates this pretty well imo. There has to be a way for clans to compete with actual skill rather than no lifeing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landwalrus Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 True, but the events have done it to an even greater degree than the general game does. You can take a break from the grind of warframe, but if you actually care about the leader boards you're not really given that option. Calling a 48+ hour grind hard work/competition/dedication is a stretch. When you're losing sleep over a video game you've stepped past mere dedication and more into the realm of having a problem. The fact that warbros still hasn't learned their lesson after having had points slashed for exploits in two previous events (something any rational group of people would recognize) illustrates this pretty well imo. There has to be a way for clans to compete with actual skill rather than no lifeing. Compete with numbers. Much better, eh? No skill involved, No grind, No time invested other than the absolute minimum! Man, I wish every game was like this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpl_Facehugger Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) Better than nothing? I'd rather have an average, which is a freaking joke in events like these because it really isn't fair, than have it favor zerg mindsets. Perhaps a weighted average should be considered. How would that fix the problem, exactly? That doesn't make it impractical. Impractical implies unwieldy or challenging to implement, which it is not. Unappealing to the current top scoring clans is more of a term to be used. It makes it impractical because you've already planned for the dojo statuary and throwing that away means wasted devtime. It's also unappealing to, you know, everyone who cares about leaderboards at all. Much better, eh? No skill involved, No grind, No time invested other than the absolute minimum! Man, I wish every game was like this! I'd argue there's a lot of skill involved with organizing your clan and herding those cats into participating. If my clan cared about leaderboards we could probably be in the top three just like we were in Gravidus. And I wouldn't really call grinding a "skill". It's merely a test of endurance. Edited June 24, 2014 by Cpl_Facehugger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorvisRebain Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Ok the Exploit guys seems to be nice guys look at the clan name. Btw we need Testservers :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowCore67 Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Partly your fault for spending 48 hours straight for a video game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landwalrus Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 How would that fix the problem, exactly? It makes it impractical because you've already planned for the dojo statuary and throwing that away means wasted devtime. It's also unappealing to, you know, everyone who cares about leaderboards at all. Wasted dev time is creating an event and then scrapping the original rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpl_Facehugger Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) Wasted dev time is creating an event and then scrapping the original rules. Not really. Devs don't necessarily care who wins, only that someone does. Rules don't take long to make or implement, while statues need art assets. I mean, remember Tethra? They went out of their way to change the rules midway through, complete with Hek infiltrating a devstream to taunt the Tenno. I'm sure you'll warble about how that's different, so what about Cicero? Pretty much the same thing happened there. The devs changed the rules midway through because people (and those people included Warbros, which is why their whining on this matter is doubly perplexing - they know DE has a habit of closing loopholes and retroactively slapping people who abuse them) were exploiting code flaws to inflate their score. Indeed, the more I think back, the similar this situation sounds to that one. I remember how players could abuse vermillion antitoxins to get thousands of points per run through careful management of quitting and inviting new players with their own vermillions. Edited June 24, 2014 by Cpl_Facehugger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yazyflame Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Wasted dev time is creating an event and then scrapping the original rules. You got your 95 posts just by trying to make legal the fact of using exploits... geez- get over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainJohnson Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 -snip- I never said it gave you any sort of advantage against other players, I frankly don't care. I care even less about why you spent hours and hours of your life without running into any enemies, if it was personal glory or for your clan to have a trophy or whatever. In fact, you never really countered my own argument, just ran in circles about how you were doing what all the other top players were doing. That argument is really really poor for doing what you did, at any rate. Everyone else did it, so if you really wanted to win, you'd have to do it to! Do you realize how much of the world runs on that same sort of argument? How much corruption and nastiness the world is plagued with because of that same mindset? The problem with the argument isn't that it's untrue, because y'know, you're right. If you wanted to win, the most rational choice would be to continue playing more and more and more and more despite not running into a single enemy along the way. Others were going to do it, and it's not like you intentionally messed with the coding, right? The problem is with the system itself, so you can't really be to blame for abusing it. And then... Everyone else has that same mindset. Everyone else does the same exact thing, and you have a bunch of people trying to hit the top for whatever reason despite the fact that you haven't even really been doing anything for all those hours. Anyways, if you really wanted your clan to get a trophy, you should have stopped at 405 or whatever and encouraged other members of your clan to hit that point and also stop, and once you'd hit that number where there was an obvious bug, you should have made a thread about it, talked about the potential exploit in detail, messaged the devs to confirm that this known bug was effecting the event, and hoped that they took the rational choice and cancelled out the scores of the players that went past the point at which enemies stopped spawning (which they did). If you had lost anyways, then you could have realized that it was Not A Big Deal and shrugged it off and continued playing Warframe however you like, because making a thread about losing is always lame and embarassing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landwalrus Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 You got your 95 posts just by trying to make legal the fact of using exploits... geez- get over it. I'm not justifying exploits. Score snipping was valid and perfectly reasonable. This is absolutely beyond a doubt. What was unreasonable was capping the scores rather than really fixing the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yazyflame Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) I'm not justifying exploits. Score snipping was valid and perfectly reasonable. This is absolutely beyond a doubt. What was unreasonable was capping the scores rather than really fixing the problem. Ok- let them fix a critical part of the script that was only known as a flaw by some exploiters of it (way before legit players get there). Done. *Edit: Wooo- 200th post! Edited June 24, 2014 by Yazyflame Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zavienh5 Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 thats bullcrap... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zendeath Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Ok- let them fix a critical part of the script that was only known as a flaw by some exploiters of it (way before legit players get there). Done. Some exploiters and DE for 6 months level cap has been an issue for a LONG time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpl_Facehugger Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 You're implying that "fixing" the problem is something they can actually do without major issues. How do you know this is the case? If it were that easy, I have to wonder why DE wouldn't have already done it? Everything we've seen and heard thus far suggests it's a matter of running up against a big engine limitation. Things like that don't tend to be quick fixes. They can't just axe the scores without doing anything else, because the same people would just be able to continue doing it. They have to do something, and it has to be something they can implement quickly enough that it'll keep people from cheating further for the rest of the event.A fix they put out an hour before the event's end wouldn't affect much, for instance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landwalrus Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Ok- let them fix a critical part of the script that was only known as a flaw by some exploiters of it (way before legit players get there). Done. The implication that the flaw wasn't pretty much out in the open is absurd. Anybody who was able to solo a best of 405 or higher would have been aware of this flaw, which is, actually quite a few people. That said, using this to gain an advantage is to a degree exploiting. However, DE has failed to fix said problem completely and has simply placed a bandaid on a gaping hole in the flesh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zendeath Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 You're implying that "fixing" the problem is something they can actually do without major issues. How do you know this is the case? If it were that easy, I have to wonder why DE wouldn't have already done it? Everything we've seen and heard thus far suggests it's a matter of running up against a big engine limitation. Things like that don't tend to be quick fixes. They can't just axe the scores without doing anything else, because the same people would just be able to continue doing it. They have to do something, and it has to be something they can implement quickly enough that it'll keep people from cheating further for the rest of the event. A fix they put out an hour before the event's end wouldn't affect much, for instance. they could have easily over the last several months been working on a system where it just keeps spawning enemies at 9999. or they could have slashed scores kept max at 405 for the 9999 enemies and gone off total stink for individual board. easy ways that would have prevent this outrage from top players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DietEbolaCola Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 You got to 450 points. You beat the game. Congratulations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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