Why High Tier Weapons Should Not Be Nerfed

[(PSN)neo275]

When you start seeing the game as work, maybe you shouldn't be forcing yourself to play. 

Isn't the reason you want to play games that you want to actually, play the game? The fact that this game keep encouraging laziness in people is a problem in itself, just shows that the gameplay is not engaging enough. 

 

You misinterpreted and derailed from the actual point. But to respond, It's not encouraging laziness, in fact it doesn't even happen often. But there are times when having some one OP can really help you out. Especially the newer players. And even If I were lazy, that'd just be me alone. The game itself isn't encouraging anything.

 

Anywho. Back to why nerfing guns on a game that barely is PVP is stupid. 

[SIDESTRE4M]

PvP or PvE... as long as people play together, their loadout possibilites should be at least somewhat balanced.

We have a few weapons witha high power level, but with a lot of disadvantages as soon as their damage falls off, mostly ammo consumption or the opposite, when Penta can't oneshot anymore.

Bringing those weapons to midgame is the problem, not the power level.

[DSpite]

Arabaxus is so far one in a handful of people that seems to look at the problem from more then one angle.

I can't really sign off on specific mastery rank numbers, as I would prefer DE to do that, but I agree that some MR tweaks might be good.

 

As far as his idea of grouping by MR ... I'm not so sure. If MR was only generated from kills the equipped weapon did, by the player (I assume some lowering of the point progression would be needed) it would count as having worked for it, but now, I could create a second, log it in, then move an unranked frame on top of some crates, and start killing waves in a Defense mission, and the AFK account will gain affinity point towards weapons, and also MR ranking.

 

... and since the mastery tests are rather easy - or at least, in this case, to unlock all weapons to 8 - it waters down the MR system as a lockout mechanic.

 

As a challenge for players, I'd rather see mission groups by something like Conclave Ratings. You could gimp a frame down to very low numbers, and then have other suicidal challenge oriented players join you, so you can all get slaughtered have fun together.

[Arabaxus]

Conclave rating isn't an area I am familiar with, so I tried to avoid that. As far as I know, Conclave Points is a number that measures the "strength" of your gear, which will increase based on weapon/frame level, whether or not a catalyst or reactor is applied, what mods are equipped and how highly ranked they are, the number of formas that have been applied, etc.

 

If it is indeed what I just described, then that would be a better suited way to address the issue of a high MR player coming overgeared. However, since this game is still P2P, it would probably not work until we get a complete public matching rework or dedicated matchmaking servers.

 

The only issue I have with the conclave rating system as a method of matchmaking is how higher ranked players would have a harder time matching down to lower ranked players, since mods can be fused upward to increase rank, but you cannot decrease the rank of a mod, as far as I know. Therefore, assuming that mod rank and rarity does indeed affect conclave rating, some players like me, who only have one copy of Serration ranked up to 9, it would be difficult to adjust that lower to match with other players. This could be addressed if mods that are ranked are not restricted to the one rank, but we were allowed to freely adjust it. Say for example my Serration, which is ranked up to rank 9. If I so desired, I would be able to reduce the rank from anywhere to zero to nine, and apply said affect. So for a low ranking mission I may reduce it to rank 2 or 3 for just 30 or 45 percent rifle damage, and then later when I go to do Orokin Void or something, I can put it back up to nine.

 

Of course I could be completely off here on what Conclave Rating is and if I am feel free to ignore me

[Hueminator]

High tier weapon should be nerf if they turned out to be too OP even for intended highest tier enemies.  Meaning if your gun too OP for T4 mobs then either add T5 mob or nerf those weap to match T4 mobs.

 

Basically what I'm saying is we need a clear tier system.

Edited July 9, 2014 by Hueminator

[GeneralArmchair]

Endless defense and endless survival can't be used as a balance metric by their very nature.  No matter how powerful a weapon is, you will always eventually reach a point where it begins to struggle in defense/survival.

 

The only metric we have for balancing weapons is to compare them to the performance of their peers.

 

What we see are a few outlier weapons that totally eclipse their competition.  The simple fact of the matter is that these outliers need to be nerfed to be brought into line with their peers.

[Edgedemon]

So you are telling the penta is not broken are you telling me its even remotely balanced? No just no you don't have to do anything except fire and blow up the grenade for 5k damage... That's demanding a nerf

a vectis could get 16k with ease, a paris  prime 30k, angstrum and ogris overpower penta in area damage, and god don't get me started with phage 

not considering after lvl 30 that would hardly kill a basic mob

 

and if i dont use the penta some one else will stealing all of my kills removing any fun from my game.

not really, even if you use a penta most weapons with no travel time (or any continuous for that matter) will kill faster, only case that may apply would be a infested defense, and you can always play solo

[Edgedemon]

Endless defense and endless survival can't be used as a balance metric by their very nature.  No matter how powerful a weapon is, you will always eventually reach a point where it begins to struggle in defense/survival.

 

The only metric we have for balancing weapons is to compare them to the performance of their peers.

 

What we see are a few outlier weapons that totally eclipse their competition.  The simple fact of the matter is that these outliers need to be nerfed to be brought into line with their peers.

all t4 (infinite or no ) and most nightmare missions do require high power weapons, i consider nigthmares more end game content that infinite missions

[Zerohades]

Nightmare endgame? Hu, I play Nightmare with my leveling frames to see if soloing T4 is an option and for the moment, i had problem with only 3 frames. Nova, because I don't like her. Banshee, like her playstyle and possibility but... Don't know can't play her well. And Trinity, because I don't want to find an other build then the one I used to use and is now obsolete.

 

Since Rage, Equilibrium and SM weapons, nightmare is not anymore difficult. So don't joke about nightmare, a good idea but finally i kick in the water.

Edited July 10, 2014 by Zerohades

[shepshifter]

People can easily leave games, or play privately. Yes it might be annoying for high tiers to come down to play with low tiers with all the weaponry that's insanely strong, but theres little currently that can be done. In the end, it's all exp for people regardless. Furthermore, to balance things just because they bring high tier to low tier is illogical, it happens in many games.

I realize now that I should have stated that this is probably why most people complain, and I should have said that I myself don't want the guns to be nerfed becasue that wouldn't be the right way to fix it. 

[Nutoru]

*FacePalm* do you guys have taken a boltor to a T4 surv? you know with the lvl 80s? 

when you get to that point even the brakk and boltor/soma just doesn't do anything, in that point you are not killing stuff like a dumb, you are just surviving and running like a headless chicken to not get hit becouse in those lvls they can one-shoot you, just a corrupted crewman, so... And i bet that those people crying for nerfing are the ones that don't go more than 60min in a surv T4 or a surv T3, cuz the enemies there are in between lvl 80 and 100, and you do nothing to those heavy gunners and moas, etc.

 

For me those weapons are needed, becouse i don't think that those people go for 40min on a T4 surv with a burston prime? or a karak?...

 

But im still thinking that those weapons should be on higher mastery ranks, like 9 or 10.

 

Sorry for my bad english, but i hope you get the message.

[Bazookagofer]

Oh vertical progression. How I hate you.

[SIDESTRE4M]

*FacePalm* do you guys have taken a boltor to a T4 surv? you know with the lvl 80s? 

when you get to that point even the brakk and boltor/soma just doesn't do anything, in that point you are not killing stuff like a dumb, you are just surviving and running like a headless chicken to not get hit becouse in those lvls they can one-shoot you, just a corrupted crewman, so... And i bet that those people crying for nerfing are the ones that don't go more than 60min in a surv T4 or a surv T3, cuz the enemies there are in between lvl 80 and 100, and you do nothing to those heavy gunners and moas, etc.

 

For me those weapons are needed, becouse i don't think that those people go for 40min on a T4 surv with a burston prime? or a karak?...

 

But im still thinking that those weapons should be on higher mastery ranks, like 9 or 10.

 

Sorry for my bad english, but i hope you get the message.

Maybe we should double the dps so you can go to level 200 enemies and spend two or three hours in survival.

[Fire_Ashes]

Maybe we should double the dps so you can go to level 200 enemies and spend two or three hours in survival.

Unnecessary. He is stating fact and you react with a very opinionated and sarcastic tone.

 

Nutoru is absolutely correct when lvl 80 enemies come up you are literally trying piece yourself back together every time you get hit.

What I do not agree with is his Burston Prime quote. I run the Burston Prime to minute 60 w/o too many issues. Sure it takes half a blip to kill a Heavy Gunner but the DPS is still very high.

 

When a person thinks about a weapon that is widely known as an Overpowered weapon" more people will cry about it. I really feel like DE wants to make more powerful weapons for the content they have. Why do I think it? because of the t4 void release. If players really believe that nerfing weapons is the way to go then T4 would be a joke. A slaughter fest after 5-10 mins. (Unless using frames like Nyx and a well organized team)

 

Also players like me and you who have played 100+ hours and run high tier gameplay all the time need to think of the common player. The ones that cannot play too much and when they do they want to relax and have a good time. Not having to worry about dying every 5 minutes because they are shooting marshmallows at a Hippo.

[SIDESTRE4M]

Since when is anything past level 40 part of game balancing? He said something about level 80. Maybe I think about level 100 and mybe anotherone thinks about level 60 or 120...

I don't want them to be nerfed. I want better matchmaking and maybe more consistency.

If DE releases something even more powerful, people will use it, like it and say they need it for T4.

There will always be people who want nerfs and those who don't based more or less on their opinions.

They made T4 so people can take their ultra maxed stuff for a walk and see how far they can make it to give them something to do for the time being. I you think you must spend an hour in it to be awesome, that's your thing to do.

Edited July 11, 2014 by SIDESTRE4M