Ven_Tira Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 (edited) So I recently created a new account just cuz for U14. And since matchmaking is currently VERY unstable right at the moment, I've largely been flying solo. Anyways, I progressed through Vor's Prize with little to no issue on my own, defeated Vor, no real problems in terms of difficulty. And then I get to the fourth Mercury Level, and I start getting absolutely curb stomped by Grineer Bombards and Seekers, so I keep trying, and trying and kept on dying over and over so I started asking myself "As a new player, what would I be feeling right now?" The answer I kept coming up with was; " These levels are IMPOSSIBLE" my largely unmodded Mk-1 Braton can't deal with Bombards anywhere remotely fast, and the Lato even less so. Getting close to melee wasn't an option, as the knockdown meant my imminent death. Not to mention the existence of Arc Traps, which is easily capable of almost instantly removing a new player's shields. I felt punished just for being alone, and even more so punished for just being "new" to the game. Why are such powerful enemies spawning at such an early stage of the game, to the point where new players have almost zero chance at completing the levels by themselves? Edit: I have just confirmed the existence of Grineer NAPALMS on Mercury. Edited July 20, 2014 by Talithan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaresin Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 Add in arc traps that are now on mercury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ven_Tira Posted July 20, 2014 Author Share Posted July 20, 2014 Add in arc traps that are now on mercury. Ah yes, forgot about those, will add to OP, thanks for the reminder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ven_Tira Posted July 20, 2014 Author Share Posted July 20, 2014 (edited) Bump for new account justice, please bring awareness to this...rather ridiculous...situation. Edited July 20, 2014 by Talithan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BizarreFetalChimpanzee Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 I somehow had a feeling this was gonna happen. While the NPE is improved with U14, it still has quite a ways to go, as evidenced by your experience. And inb4 "but you're supposed to play this co-op," DE has officially stated in a live-stream that they want to make the game balanced for both Co-op and Solo players. I did notice though that the MK-1 Braton, while still a bit of a pain, seems to have actually been at least a bit buffed. It looked like it may have higher damage and fire rate than previously, though that doesn't really mean anything when Bombards are around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ven_Tira Posted July 20, 2014 Author Share Posted July 20, 2014 I somehow had a feeling this was gonna happen. While the NPE is improved with U14, it still has quite a ways to go, as evidenced by your experience. And inb4 "but you're supposed to play this co-op," DE has officially stated in a live-stream that they want to make the game balanced for both Co-op and Solo players. I did notice though that the MK-1 Braton, while still a bit of a pain, seems to have actually been at least a bit buffed. It looked like it may have higher damage and fire rate than previously, though that doesn't really mean anything when Bombards are around. Aye, the MK-1 Braton *does* feel stronger then it did some time back, but the Bombard's high armor and health laughs at all 610 some odd rounds my Braton spits at them. I was even fortunate enough to get a damaged Pathogen Rounds mod during Vor's Quest, and that barely helps me at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BizarreFetalChimpanzee Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 Aye, the MK-1 Braton *does* feel stronger then it did some time back, but the Bombard's high armor and health laughs at all 610 some odd rounds my Braton spits at them. I was even fortunate enough to get a damaged Pathogen Rounds mod during Vor's Quest, and that barely helps me at all. Honestly, I think they just need to outright trash all the MK-1 bullcrap and give new players standard issue of their choice from the start. As for the Lato, that really just needs a buff. Massive buff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ven_Tira Posted July 20, 2014 Author Share Posted July 20, 2014 Honestly, I think they just need to outright trash all the MK-1 bullcrap and give new players standard issue of their choice from the start. As for the Lato, that really just needs a buff. Massive buff. Or the outright removal of Grineer Bombards and Seeker's from Mercury. I am also HIGHLY displeased that they changed the Mastery Rank 1 test enemies from Grineer to Corpus. It may not seem like much, but using default weaponry, it's super hard, thanks to those goddamn shield ospreys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BizarreFetalChimpanzee Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 Or the outright removal of Grineer Bombards and Seeker's from Mercury. I am also HIGHLY displeased that they changed the Mastery Rank 1 test enemies from Grineer to Corpus. It may not seem like much, but using default weaponry, it's super hard, thanks to those goddamn shield ospreys. A friend and I made alt-accounts to test the NPE a while back, around mid U13 or so, and even now the stats on the starting weapons are just not good at all for dealing with Corpus. They're best suited for Infested, and even then wen we tried that, the infested were virtually unscathed. They're simply terrible, terrible weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ven_Tira Posted July 20, 2014 Author Share Posted July 20, 2014 A friend and I made alt-accounts to test the NPE a while back, around mid U13 or so, and even now the stats on the starting weapons are just not good at all for dealing with Corpus. They're best suited for Infested, and even then wen we tried that, the infested were virtually unscathed. They're simply terrible, terrible weapons. I think we need to raise awareness about this situation, I don't really see threads addressing this, and this is a pretty serious issue, considering DE's current focus is the NPE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForgemasterHD Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 (edited) So, long and short is New Player Experience 2.0 lets players in softly before crushing them under brutal conditions? EDIT: Not trying to sound apathetic, just wanted to make sure that I'm getting the correct information from this thread before I formulate a deeper reply. Edited July 20, 2014 by ForgemasterHD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acos Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 (edited) Naturally I have the advantage of knowing what I'm doing already, and while I would consider the deaths I incurred to be my fault (I decided to fight the bombardier rather than simply run down the hallway away from him, or I angrily slashed at arc traps rather than scurry away to a better cover spot), I would also agree that a new player probably needs a longer grace period to ensure they don't just get upset and quit either. Not too much, mind you, the average player is still a smart human being who likes FPS, but a longer period to at least get his bearings before we start throwing kubrows and rockets at him. EDIT: To put further emphasis, I absolutely hate the trend of games that treat new players as new... human beings. I cannot express my hatred fully of games that insist I spend the first several hours killing rats before I'm "ready" to fight something that could actually kill me. Under no conditions do I want Warframe to turn into that sort of game. Overall the difficulty curve of Warframe has always been that it begins very difficult until you get your base mods (shields, health), becoming increasingly easy as you expand your arsenal just before becoming impossibly hard and then incredibly gimmicky as you get towards "endgame". I've actually been having more fun as a "new" player with my unranked Excalibur, lato, braton, and skana than I have in several months as a fully equipped Ash stealth fighting level 60 Corpus. Edited July 20, 2014 by Acos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ven_Tira Posted July 20, 2014 Author Share Posted July 20, 2014 So, long and short is New Player Experience 2.0 lets players in softly before crushing them under brutal conditions? EDIT: Not trying to sound apathetic, just wanted to make sure that I'm getting the correct information from this thread before I formulate a deeper reply. Pretty much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ven_Tira Posted July 20, 2014 Author Share Posted July 20, 2014 Naturally I have the advantage of knowing what I'm doing already, and while I would consider the deaths I incurred to be my fault (I decided to fight the bombardier rather than simply run down the hallway away from him, or I angrily slashed at arc traps rather than scurry away to a better cover spot), I would also agree that a new player probably needs a longer grace period to ensure they don't just get upset and quit either. Not too much, mind you, the average player is still a smart human being who likes FPS, but a longer period to at least get his bearings before we start throwing kubrows and rockets at him. EDIT: To put further emphasis, I absolutely hate the trend of games that treat new players as new... human beings. I cannot express my hatred fully of games that insist I spend the first several hours killing rats before I'm "ready" to fight something that could actually kill me. Under no conditions do I want Warframe to turn into that sort of game. All DE has to do is remove Bombards, Seekers and Napalms from Mercury, and reduce the spawn frequency of Arc Traps and it'll be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calsius Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 I had no idea it was still this bad. You're right, this does need more attention! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ven_Tira Posted July 20, 2014 Author Share Posted July 20, 2014 I had no idea it was still this bad. You're right, this does need more attention! Spread the word, yo. Hopefully we can get this thread on DE's watch list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calsius Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 Spread the word, yo. Hopefully we can get this thread on DE's watch list. I will certainly try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acos Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 All DE has to do is remove Bombards, Seekers and Napalms from Mercury, and reduce the spawn frequency of Arc Traps and it'll be fine. Generally agreed. In a more perfect system, specific nodes would "introduce" new enemies, with a brief message from Lotus along the lines of "Hey Tenno, that guy literally craps fire, maybe watch out for him, yeah?". As a separate criticism, I've never felt like there's enough of a visual difference in "special" enemies. A lot of the time I don't realize a Napalm is present until my screen is on fire. Making him red is really not enough for you to identify him in a group. Make him larger, give him a different silhouette, something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ven_Tira Posted July 20, 2014 Author Share Posted July 20, 2014 Generally agreed. In a more perfect system, specific nodes would "introduce" new enemies, with a brief message from Lotus along the lines of "Hey Tenno, that guy literally craps fire, maybe watch out for him, yeah?". As a separate criticism, I've never felt like there's enough of a visual difference in "special" enemies. A lot of the time I don't realize a Napalm is present until my screen is on fire. Making him red is really not enough for you to identify him in a group. Make him larger, give him a different silhouette, something. You read my mind, really. I can distinguish napalms by the big @(*()$ box they hold, they're also a good head taller then Grineer Lancers. But I have 600 hours under my belt, how the hell is a new player supposed to know what a "Heavy Grineer" entails, or even looks like until they're a corpse on the floor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForgemasterHD Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 You read my mind, really. I can distinguish napalms by the big @(*()$ box they hold, they're also a good head taller then Grineer Lancers. But I have 600 hours under my belt, how the hell is a new player supposed to know what a "Heavy Grineer" entails, or even looks like until they're a corpse on the floor. Then you throw Eximus into the bunch and things just start to fall apart rather quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ven_Tira Posted July 20, 2014 Author Share Posted July 20, 2014 Then you throw Eximus into the bunch and things just start to fall apart rather quickly. Eximi units on their own arn't actually that bad, unless they're Arctic. But paired with Heavy Grineer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForgemasterHD Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 (edited) Eximi units on their own arn't actually that bad, unless they're Arctic. But paired with Heavy Grineer... I was referring to when a new player sees them in comparison to the other types of heavy grineer. "Heavy Grineer, what's tha- *Fiery explosion*" "Okay, I know what Heavy Grineer are, but why is that guy glowing and doing all of those weird things?" Edited July 20, 2014 by ForgemasterHD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ven_Tira Posted July 20, 2014 Author Share Posted July 20, 2014 (edited) I was referring to when a new player sees them in comparison to the other types of heavy grineer. "Heavy Grineer, what's tha- *Fiery explosion*" "Okay, I know what Heavy Grineer are, but why is that guy glowing and doing all of those weird things?" Ah, I see your point then. But at the very least, Eximi units stand out in a crowd, and as such gives players, even new ones, a good reason to think "Hrm, that guy is glowing, he must be special, so I should focus on taking him down first." Whereas Heavy Grineer are VERY identical to their smaller brothers, and the only thing that the player has to warn them of their dangerous-ness is their health suddenly vanishing in a ball of fire. To further ground my statements, I have no issues dispatching Eximi units on NPE account with the Braton, or even the Lato. The biggest offenders to the NPE are Arc Traps, Heavy Grineer, and Seekers. Edited July 20, 2014 by Talithan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForgemasterHD Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 The biggest offenders to the NPE are Arc Traps, Heavy Grineer, and Seekers. I concur with this assessment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ven_Tira Posted July 20, 2014 Author Share Posted July 20, 2014 I concur with this assessment. And Seekers are the least offending of the bunch. The only reason I include them here is because one shot me in the back when I was at extraction's doorstep and it killed me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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