Emolition Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 Affinity points are shared with every players in the vincinity. It's a reason why sometimes you don't use one weapon but it manages to gain experience from the mission. Stay close and you should not have any trouble gaining affinity. Moreover, the current system puts a hard cap your frame/weapon progression. It's just a matter of time before you hit lv30 cap anyway. Even with the frame/weapon reset for polarity customization which was discussed in the latest stream, it will have a hard cap somewhere. And here I thought they said that you share exp if you stick togher (not 1 player 5 rooms back and 1 3 rooms infront) but if all stick togher you get exp from them to that why you can get malee exp with out using malee when in team for one of the team mates used it alot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phlyn Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 Pay for convenience is a euphemism for P2W. good point, very constructive. do you think league of legends is pay2win? this game is as free as Lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsifu Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 good point, very constructive. do you think league of legends is pay2win? this game is as free as Lol. Sure I can give a real life example. Lets say you want to be a doctor. If you pay $300k now, you can instantly skip med school, residency, get your degree and be placed somewhere with a job. Is that not pay to win? You put no time or effort into the goal and yet paying for it let you obtain it instantly. If you didn't pay to win, you'd only be able to buy a white coat that means absolutely nothing to reaching your goal. League of legends is the latter, and Warframe is the former. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staggered Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 (edited) good point, very constructive. do you think league of legends is pay2win? this game is as free as Lol. riot doesn't make you pay real life money to get slots for champions. warframe is a great game but it's not F2P. Edited April 13, 2013 by Staggered Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaximumSquid Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 (edited) You can pay to get items sooner and essentially reduce the difficulty for what many already consider to be a very easy game Remember: this is a coop game and not PvP Start to finish you're looking at about 1 to 2 weeks if you play a few hours each night and maybe a little more on weekends If you want to farm after beating all the planets you can gain access to other guns / warframes Some players do want everything and this is the only endgame right now Others who enjoyed the challenge of the journey should avoid the pay items like the plague because once you beat Pluto there will be nothing more for you to see Edited April 13, 2013 by MaximumSquid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phlyn Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 Sure I can give a real life example. Lets say you want to be a doctor. If you pay $300k now, you can instantly skip med school, residency, get your degree and be placed somewhere with a job. Is that not pay to win? You put no time or effort into the goal and yet paying for it let you obtain it instantly. If you didn't pay to win, you'd only be able to buy a white coat that means absolutely nothing to reaching your goal. League of legends is the latter, and Warframe is the former. thats an awfull example. its completely and utterly exagurated, although its insightful to see you think that you equate a 2 dollar mod, or 10dollar frame to a $300k investment. how about this, you want to get your oil changed. so you can do it your self, pay 15 bucks for materials or pay 20 and have someone do it for you. one saves you an hour of your saturday for 5 bucks, the other saves you five bucks but takes an hour. in the end you get your oil changed either way. the difference between our thought processes is apparent, if you read your quote here. "You put no time or effort into the goal and yet paying for it let you obtain it instantly." the frames are the goal for you, where for me its to play a fun game with my friends and get mods to make my self better. if you are looking at the frames as the games only purpose then i suggest you don't buy any of them, and its better for you that they're expensive so you're less tempted to remove your goal for free, making you play longer. this is optimal for you and DE. now if other people having them before you (which you have zero way of knowing who paid and who farmed what) is annoying to you. then i suggest you try and sit back and think, when you run into someone with rhino, or frost, or anyone ... did they farm it or did they pay? I personally put in 70 runs to get my rhino frame, I've got 5k plat sitting there. But I still farmed the frame because it was FUN. TL;DR people play games for different reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kit--Kat Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 Sure I can give a real life example. Lets say you want to be a doctor. If you pay $300k now, you can instantly skip med school, residency, get your degree and be placed somewhere with a job. Is that not pay to win? You put no time or effort into the goal and yet paying for it let you obtain it instantly. If you didn't pay to win, you'd only be able to buy a white coat that means absolutely nothing to reaching your goal. League of legends is the latter, and Warframe is the former. You gained no medical skills from it, just like how money doesn't buy skill in this game. I just started playing this game, and it's not P2W. P2-Not Grind is a better way to put it. 12 hours to make my bow? Eh, I'd rather wait than dish out a few bucks. Platinum price could be decreased though. $15-20 for a character is a little nuts. :l maybe $5-10 bucks maximum. (Why I bought Loki) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phlyn Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 riot doesn't make you pay real life money to get slots for champions. warframe is a great game but it's not F2P. i'd agree about this, and i believe DE has said they're going to work on it. the game is still in beta, its not a finished product yet. really though you could unlock a lot of slots for like 10 bucks... i think its fairly reasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FluffyBunnySlippers Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 Sure I can give a real life example. Lets say you want to be a doctor. If you pay $300k now, you can instantly skip med school, residency, get your degree and be placed somewhere with a job. Is that not pay to win? You put no time or effort into the goal and yet paying for it let you obtain it instantly. If you didn't pay to win, you'd only be able to buy a white coat that means absolutely nothing to reaching your goal. League of legends is the latter, and Warframe is the former. However, as a bought& paid for "doctor" you would fail miserably, get sued for malpractice, possibly charged with manslaughter and end up broke, and in prison. Buying stuff with plat doesn't mean the buyer knows what to do with it. Does the fact I bought plat make me a good shot with a pistol?..No, I suck with a pistol. Am I winning anything with my paid-for pistol? Besides which I've yet to see anyone explain to me exactly how one "wins" Warframe. There is no winning, it's a continuous cycle of missions, the sole point of which is to get "stuff" that lets you continue the cycle of missions in a slightly different way. All that "stuff" is available through in-game means. (vanity "stuff" excepted, and the omni ammo box iirc) All you can do is pay to get "stuff" a little faster, allowing you to try out the slightly different way to cycle through missions before those who "grind". You aren't winning anything by paying. Saying this game is not F2P is absurd. You can play the game, you can do so free of charge, It's free to play. Saying it's pay to win is absurd, you can't win, therefore you can't pay for it. If they add in a serious competitive aspect that requires fully maxed gear, and lots of it, in order to have a chance at being competitive then I may change my view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phlyn Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 You gained no medical skills from it, just like how money doesn't buy skill in this game. I just started playing this game, and it's not P2W. P2-Not Grind is a better way to put it. 12 hours to make my bow? Eh, I'd rather wait than dish out a few bucks. Platinum price could be decreased though. $15-20 for a character is a little nuts. :l maybe $5-10 bucks maximum. (Why I bought Loki) i actually disagree, it seems steep, but it keeps you from buying everything. making the game last longer for yourself, and keeping objectives open in the game. after buying quite a few frames my self i find my self wanting to farm the rest purely for the entertainment. if they were cosmetic changes i'd agree, but if they're too cheap the game will out sell its life span. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaximumSquid Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 There's strong evidence to support that they need to make slots available to free users to help build interest and keep non-pay players on long enough to switch over to pay status Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mak_Gohae Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 There's strong evidence to support that they need to make slots available to free users to help build interest and keep non-pay players on long enough to switch over to pay status Given that the only two things not in game that you pay for are colors and slots.... i think that "strong evidence" only shows that people just dont want to pay for ANYTHING. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pendragon1951 Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 I can understand how many would think it is pay to win. To the casual gamer it would seem that way because they do not play as often and thus would not get as much as someone who plays quite a bit. Even then it is quite difficult to get things you need to make your own weapons, here is an example. I would like to make the dual heat daggers, but I need alloy plate (Venus) salvage(Mars) and something else I can't remember at the moment, but my point is, to get to Mar from Venus you have to go through Earth and I think one other planet but not sure, imagine how long it will take me to do that even if I am someone who plays everyday, so having to pay to get more effective weapons is a legitimate argument. Just an aside, in the Infestation missions, do they re-spawn? If they do I believe that would be quite unfair, because if your trapped in one spot and can't get out because they keep coming at you I would imagine that would throw off the playability balance? One last rant, did anyone notice on some weapons in the market you have to have a certain rank, which I think is a misnomer, because on the dual axe weapons it says you need to be rank 2 and my warframe is rank 10 so I think they are talking about Mastery level am I correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsifu Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 However, as a bought& paid for "doctor" you would fail miserably, get sued for malpractice, possibly charged with manslaughter and end up broke, and in prison. Buying stuff with plat doesn't mean the buyer knows what to do with it. Does the fact I bought plat make me a good shot with a pistol?..No, I suck with a pistol. Am I winning anything with my paid-for pistol? Besides which I've yet to see anyone explain to me exactly how one "wins" Warframe. There is no winning, it's a continuous cycle of missions, the sole point of which is to get "stuff" that lets you continue the cycle of missions in a slightly different way. All that "stuff" is available through in-game means. (vanity "stuff" excepted, and the omni ammo box iirc) All you can do is pay to get "stuff" a little faster, allowing you to try out the slightly different way to cycle through missions before those who "grind". You aren't winning anything by paying. Saying this game is not F2P is absurd. You can play the game, you can do so free of charge, It's free to play. Saying it's pay to win is absurd, you can't win, therefore you can't pay for it. If they add in a serious competitive aspect that requires fully maxed gear, and lots of it, in order to have a chance at being competitive then I may change my view. The consequence of paying to win is that you don't get familiar with your weapon, skills or navigation at all. That's not unlike the person in my example not having any experience with their job. P2W involves both competition AND progression and whether people P2W or not for fun is subjective. While there's no competitive aspect in the game right now, P2W is present but doesn't have a detrimental effect on another player's experience...that will change in the future once a form of competition comes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phlyn Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 I can understand how many would think it is pay to win. To the casual gamer it would seem that way because they do not play as often and thus would not get as much as someone who plays quite a bit. Even then it is quite difficult to get things you need to make your own weapons, here is an example. I would like to make the dual heat daggers, but I need alloy plate (Venus) salvage(Mars) and something else I can't remember at the moment, but my point is, to get to Mar from Venus you have to go through Earth and I think one other planet but not sure, imagine how long it will take me to do that even if I am someone who plays everyday, so having to pay to get more effective weapons is a legitimate argument. Just an aside, in the Infestation missions, do they re-spawn? If they do I believe that would be quite unfair, because if your trapped in one spot and can't get out because they keep coming at you I would imagine that would throw off the playability balance? One last rant, did anyone notice on some weapons in the market you have to have a certain rank, which I think is a misnomer, because on the dual axe weapons it says you need to be rank 2 and my warframe is rank 10 so I think they are talking about Mastery level am I correct? correct, it is mastery rank, and there are only 2 guns mastery locked i think? and they're only mastery rank 4 max. you could also try and get someone to unlock a planet for you on mars. you can jump out of chain if you're in a group with someone who has something else unlocked, you don't need to go in order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emolition Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 Only 1 frame so far I found the need to buy and that banshee for she 100 time harder to find then the frames with boss drops and not sure if that a win. Much more fun to find the blue prints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emolition Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 I Even then it is quite difficult to get things you need to make your own weapons, here is an example. I would like to make the dual heat daggers, but I need alloy plate (Venus) salvage(Mars) and something else I can't remember at the moment, but my point is, to get to Mar from Venus you have to go through Earth and I think one other planet but not sure, imagine how long it will take me to do that even if I am someone who plays everyday, so having to pay to get more effective weapons is a legitimate argument. That part is incorrect to go from venus to mars you just go to mars earth is a dead end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phlyn Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 The consequence of paying to win is that you don't get familiar with your weapon, skills or navigation at all. That's not unlike the person in my example not having any experience with their job. P2W involves both competition AND progression and whether people P2W or not for fun is subjective. While there's no competitive aspect in the game right now, P2W is present but doesn't have a detrimental effect on another player's experience...that will change in the future once a form of competition comes. i disagree, as i have yet to find something other than the skana I truely thought was bad. i've crushed people in damage per level with the aklatos i paid 15k credits and 20 of my starter plat to upgrade quickly when they were using fully kitted advanced warframes. Hell general opinion says that excalibur one of the cheapest and starter frames is the most powerful frame in the game at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pendragon1951 Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 Phlyn, thanks for the answer, I thought it was mastery they ment, hope they correct it because some people will definitely be confused as I was. On the subject of Mastery levels, do you really think it should be tied to your weapons leveling? If so the amounts you get to level your weapons really need to be adjusted higher. As they are now it takes forever to level up your Mastery, I think it took me a month and a half just to get from 0 to 1. I would rather they just do away either your weapons leveling or Mastery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FluffyBunnySlippers Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 The consequence of paying to win is that you don't get familiar with your weapon, skills or navigation at all. That's not unlike the person in my example not having any experience with their job. P2W involves both competition AND progression and whether people P2W or not for fun is subjective. While there's no competitive aspect in the game right now, P2W is present but doesn't have a detrimental effect on another player's experience...that will change in the future once a form of competition comes. But, and this is the important part...Warframe is not Pay to Win, no matter how many times people say it is, it's not. You are using entirely the wrong terminology, and this is not me just being pedantic over a semantic issue. By all means theorize over what may or may not happen in the future regarding competition, whatever form that may take. I'd be surprised if DE didn't look very closely at the pay structure before they introduced a serious competitive aspect to the game....I doubt they want all the negative stigma that goes along with actually being P2W in that situation. As the game stands now there is zero Pay to win. There is only "pay for stuff" that saves you a bit of time. Or in the case of vanity objects "pay for Stuff" that makes it all pretty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pendragon1951 Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 FluffyBunnySlippers but you have to agree that the weapons that deal more damage have to be paid for with Plat correct?, by the way did anyone answer my question about Infestation missions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phlyn Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 (edited) Phlyn, thanks for the answer, I thought it was mastery they ment, hope they correct it because some people will definitely be confused as I was. On the subject of Mastery levels, do you really think it should be tied to your weapons leveling? If so the amounts you get to level your weapons really need to be adjusted higher. As they are now it takes forever to level up your Mastery, I think it took me a month and a half just to get from 0 to 1. I would rather they just do away either your weapons leveling or Mastery. Well mastery is supposed to be your overall mastery of the game. meaning your rank will go up as you "master" more frames and weapons. I believe its a fantastic system to prove how many different weapons and frames you've mastered. the downfall is they've tied a couple of unlocks to it, which i do not think is fair. FluffyBunnySlippers but you have to agree that the weapons that deal more damage have to be paid for with Plat correct?, by the way did anyone answer my question about Infestation missions? they don't HAVE to be paid for with plat, if getting there is the issue. use the social aspect of the game and get someone to unlock a mission for you there. they will be implementing some sort of clan resource system (probably) that will help out with ths greatly. Edited April 13, 2013 by Phlyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scyfle Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 Da heck? Did my post get deleted or did I simply not post it? (or missed it?) So to summarize what the complainers said: making ANYTHING that is not cosmetic have a premium price tag is pay2win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FluffyBunnySlippers Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 FluffyBunnySlippers but you have to agree that the weapons that deal more damage have to be paid for with Plat correct?, by the way did anyone answer my question about Infestation missions? Unless I've missed something rather important in the last update, you can get every weapon by building it from the BP. Phlyn has already given good advice if location is an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phlyn Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 Da heck? Did my post get deleted or did I simply not post it? (or missed it?) So to summarize what the complainers said: making ANYTHING that is not cosmetic have a premium price tag is pay2win. and the real deffinition is making ANYTHING that is not cosmetic and can't be obtained without paying a premium price tag is pay2win. wich does not describe this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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