Why The Infested Ancient Needs A Good Old-Fashioned Nerf.

[Psyked]

"You have tons of options but you don't use them apparently. They don't need a nerf, you need to become better."

I don't know what part of the word 'condescending' you don't understand.

Would you honestly like to have someone say that to you?

 

I wouldn't have a problem with that, so yes.

 

 

 

Do I need to spell out for you what you're actually saying here?

"Look at the little idiot, he's got all these options but he's too stupid/noobly to notice any of them."

 

If that is your interpretation of my words, then you have some serious confidence issues. How about this instead:

 

"Here, I listed you some of the options available to you that you might have not thought of before, which led you to the conclusion that ancients need to be nerfed. Instead they are fine and you just need to practice more."

 

 

If you seriously aren't aware that this is how you're coming across, then I recommend reading your posts out loud to yourself before finalizing them. You might avoid unnecessary confrontations in the future.

 

Reading them out doesn't help, avoiding confrontations isn't one of my strengths either, be it in written form or in direct social interaction.

 

Plenty of other people in this thread offered helpful advice without being either dismissive or condescending.  You were both.

 

Again, if this is what you want to hear, then you could interpret my words as that. You also could not instead and stop accusing me of intentionally being a $&*^.

 

 

 

Perhaps you aught to take a few queues from them.

 

Try as I might, I can not find differences big enough to warrant your reaction.

 

 

 

I'm not interested in continuing this argument, so I won't be replying further.

 

Alright. Have a nice day anyway.

Edited May 22, 2013 by Psyked

[Pixues]

Skill.............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................based?

Edited April 13, 2013 by Pixues

[CaligoIllioneus]

Hek is a Mastery Rank 4 weapon. Not everyone has a Hek to use. And "killing it before it can do anything" isn't even an actual strategy, it's as much a strategy as "have more DPS than the boss".

Oh, it's you again. Wonderful. And might I add that Heavies, despite spawning less than Ancients, are EASIER to kill than Ancients, and give significantly MORE xp? Meh, I bet you'll say "THEN BUFF THE HEAVIES". Having frequent double Ancients is fine on the harder levels, or occasional triple Ancients even if it's on the Phorid planet or beyond. But there are currently at least a dozen strewn out on even a Mercury-level Infested mission, with some later missions having (and i counted) 20-30 Ancients, not even counting the Defense ones. And they are nothing but bullet sponges anyway, with either an instant energy+shield wipe on hit, or instant health damage on proximity. They're not fun. They're just annoying. Oh and, ranged attacks should be implemented on a new "uncommon" Infested unit (launching spikes or something), not Ancients.

 

1) The Strun can do that as well as the Hek. And yes its a valid strategy because they're not really fast and they melee, so you can kill them before they reach you. Two ancients is a massive cakewalk, by the way.

 

2) 20-30 ancients...hahaha...please next time come with facts instead of made up numbers. A dozen in Mercury...hahaha.

 

Do you have a problem with anything that has the power to be a minor inconvenience to your character? Are you averse to any sort of effort?

 

We already helped the OP with the strategies to deal with them. I don't know why you keep complaining, honestly.

 

Also, yes, the heavies should be buffed...how did you guess? Especially Napalms.

Edited April 13, 2013 by CaligoIllioneus

[GrandMasterV]

I prefer my ancient hosed down with a shotgun :)

[TinyLesbianRobot]

I prefer my ancient hosed down with a shotgun :)

Yeah, that's what I've been resorting to as well - I just hate to pack my rank 30 Strun with me every time I go on an infested mission.  I'd rather work on my other long weapons, it feels like a waste XD

[rhoenix]

Ancients are an excellent reason to use your charge melee attack.  With weapons like Dual Heat Blades and the Scindo, as long as you can stop with with a stun, elec stun, freeze, or even fire to make them stumble for a moment, you can follow up with one or two charge melee attacks, and the ancient is gone.  

 

For all other Infested, literally running in a circle rapidly melee'ing when you're about to be swarmed helps to prevent (though not entirely - be warned) knockback and stun from affecting you, while blender'ing your way through the crowd of enemies.  Dual Heat Blades and the Dual Zoran are excellent for this role.  Doing this with a crowd, even with Ancients in it, can help you thin it out enough to have the second or two to begin your first charge melee attack, and target the remaining Ancients one by one if necessary.

 

The Poison Ancients... yeah, hit them from afar with good guns, as high priority targets.

[CaligoIllioneus]

Yeah, that's what I've been resorting to as well - I just hate to pack my rank 30 Strun with me every time I go on an infested mission.  I'd rather work on my other long weapons, it feels like a waste XD

 

Boltor and Akbolto also work awesome on them, though you have to aim for the head with these weapons, and not for the boot.

[TinyLesbianRobot]

Boltor and Akbolto also work awesome on them, though you have to aim for the head with these weapons, and not for the boot.

Good to know.  I've been looking for an excuse to build the Boltor.

[Madotsuki]

1) The Strun can do that as well as the Hek. And yes its a valid strategy because they're not really fast and they melee, so you can kill them before they reach you. Two ancients is a massive cakewalk, by the way.

 

2) 20-30 ancients...hahaha...please next time come with facts instead of made up numbers. A dozen in Mercury...hahaha.

 

Do you have a problem with anything that has the power to be a minor inconvenience to your character? Are you averse to any sort of effort?

 

We already helped the OP with the strategies to deal with them. I don't know why you keep complaining, honestly.

 

Also, yes, the heavies should be buffed...how did you guess? Especially Napalms.

I HAVE fought 20-30 ancients on missions before. Well, maybe not 30, but there was at least one time with at least 20 Ancients throughout the entire mission. That is a fact from my experience. And yes, i HAVE seen a dozen Ancients in that one Infested mission on Mercury (not in a clump but throughout the course of the mission). Just because you haven't seen these numbers doesn't mean they don't exist. And no, I don't have a problem with minor inconveniences. As i said, Ancients are nothing but bullet sponges combat-wise, with annoying abilities tacked on that either take away your ability to use abilities, or instantly take out a chunk of your health regardless of shields or armor, not even requiring the Ancient to hit you but to simply stand next to you. This isn't a "minor inconvenience", it's boring and annoying enemy behaviour. Tell me, would you really cry if the Ancients spawned less? Would Ancients not being able to hit behind themselves ruin your gameplay experience? Oh and the forum topic is "Why Infested Ancients need a good nerf", not "how do i deal with Ancients". I have every right to talk about why they should be nerfed and how they should be nerfed. And no, Heavies don't need buffs. What we need are more enemy variety, with different behaviours to spice it up.

[Lysserd]

I'd agree with you only because of recent developments. At some point when I wasn't looking, the Ancients have been buffed. It used to be that you could keep moving, dodge, and avoid their flying pimp hands. But I guess somebody decided to upgrade them with a 'keepin it strong' mod, because they're either moving way faster or are just more accurate. Oh, they also slap at you I'd wager ... twice as much? I was actually just stun-locked into a corner by ONE ancient. Just because they can slap so fast now. Yeah, no. That just needs to go back to where it was.

[TinyLesbianRobot]

I'd agree with you only because of recent developments. At some point when I wasn't looking, the Ancients have been buffed. It used to be that you could keep moving, dodge, and avoid their flying pimp hands. But I guess somebody decided to upgrade them with a 'keepin it strong' mod, because they're either moving way faster or are just more accurate. Oh, they also slap at you I'd wager ... twice as much? I was actually just stun-locked into a corner by ONE ancient. Just because they can slap so fast now. Yeah, no. That just needs to go back to where it was.

How recent are you thinking?  I've only been playing since update 7 - I'm wondering if I've ever encountered a pre-buff Ancient.

[Lysserd]

How recent are you thinking?  I've only been playing since update 7 - I'm wondering if I've ever encountered a pre-buff Ancient.

 

Not sure, I don't really keep track of the updates very well. All I know is I'm having to go back to jumping on boxes and tricking the AI. It makes me feel dirty.

[Kronk]

personally, i aim at the ancient, shooting at him as he comes after me and dodge him with shift-directionbutton when he stops to attack. if timed correctly, he will miss his slingattack. if you have positioned your dodge right also, you can just repeat the same sequence until he is down.

[Karosu]

i find 4 ancients at once easier than one heavy gunner... its playstyle and tactics man.

[Takamori]

Geez I fought 4 ancient disrupters at same time since I stepped on the ball pretty hard on a rescue mission and made through.

Don't want the easy mode infested from the past, keep then challenging.

[Madotsuki]

So, i just played an infested mission on Jupiter, to test the supposed Ancients buff on U7.7.3. After encountering 2 Toxics, it would appear that:

1. Their attack rate has increased

2. Their attack speed has increased

3. Their wind-up animation has been significantly shortened

4. Their range seems to have been increased

5. Their speed possibly increased

No idea on their spawn rate, as it was only one mission and it was Extermination. If their spawn rate decreased as a result, I don't mind them being buffed to mini-boss status.

[Makemap]

 

So, i just played an infested mission on Jupiter, to test the supposed Ancients buff on U7.7.3. After encountering 2 Toxics, it would appear that:

1. Their attack rate has increased

2. Their attack speed has increased

3. Their wind-up animation has been significantly shortened

4. Their range seems to have been increased

5. Their speed possibly increased

No idea on their spawn rate, as it was only one mission and it was Extermination. If their spawn rate decreased as a result, I don't mind them being buffed to mini-boss status.

 

Spawn rate has increase for Alert mission. I saw like 10+. That is just madness insane difficulty.

Infestation mob spawn rate has also increase for sure. When ever I try to go backwards to kill ancient in infestation mission. I get back stabbed by infestation mobs that weren't there a few minutes ago. The time is so short the you also get attack every first room you go into. You better off not going backwards.

Edited April 14, 2013 by Makemap

[Rollen]

Some things about the ancients do need a tweak at least.

1. The clipping through their body. (This is just silly and should be changed.)

2. The attacked speed needs a slight decrease. (Only since once a disruptor hits you, your guaranteed to loose you energy and shields as his next attack will hit before you can even gain movement control back. Though this also could be fixed by allowing us a roll from the ground move after being knocked backed.)

3. Spawn rates. (I'm actually fine with fighting several of these at once, as long as they are not all disruptors and toxics. Right now i rarely see ancient healers anymore but am guaranteed at least 2 disruptors in almost every encounter.)

Right now the infested seem to have the least variety of enemies, with the only challenging ones being the ancients so apparently they just decided to over stuff every level full of um to make the levels more challenging.

Id rank ancient healers along the lines of the regular MOA in corpus missions. You can throw a ton at me i don't mind at all. The toxics are more like the shock wave MOA, they are more annoying but meh, you can kite them pretty well just keep running past, making them 180 and target them first. The Disruptors are...really a rank of their own, only because they can take away your energy, leaving you with no utility at all to turn the battle back to your favor.

[ProjectUmbra]

the game is already too easy, and u want more nerf? give a REAL boss, better minions, mini-bosses, the game is very easy, not viable for a looong experience.

[CaligoIllioneus]

the game is already too easy, and u want more nerf? give a REAL boss, better minions, mini-bosses, the game is very easy, not viable for a looong experience.

 

I wouldn't say it's not viable for a long experience, especially since they will implement harder difficulty modes soon and revamp the bosses but the other part is, sadly, true. The game is already very, very easy and some people want to make Ancients spawn like Grineer heavies... Ancients that you can kill before they even reach you, ancients that you can stunlock with melee weapons, ancients that are the only way for Infested to be somewhat challenging.

 

The next thing they will want is to add Chargers carrying Rubedo on their backs, when they reach you they deposit the Rubedo on the ground next to you and suicide, awarding you XP.

Edited April 14, 2013 by CaligoIllioneus

[Acino]

I wouldn't say it's not viable for a long experience, especially since they will implement harder difficulty modes soon and revamp the bosses but the other part is, sadly, true. The game is already very, very easy and some people want to make Ancients spawn like Grineer heavies... Ancients that you can kill before they even reach you, ancients that you can stunlock with melee weapons, ancients that are the only way for Infested to be somewhat challenging.

The next thing they will want is to add Chargers carrying Rubedo on their backs, when they reach you they deposit the Rubedo on the ground next to you and suicide, awarding you XP.

Just wanting to confess that I find those ancients easier to deal with than chargers. Never died to ancient. Died million times to charger army multi-stunlock. But yeah keep up the discussion.

[VanillaRegal]

The Infested as a whole are my new favorite faction to play against considering they drop ALL KINDS of nice things, have no ranged attacks, and best of all? They don't insta-kill my Sentinel with P-90's masquerading around in assault rifle skins (Looking at you, Grineer Lancer)...

 

But the Ancients are all so... Boring. They are varied and the Disruptor is to be feared but other than their massive, annoyingly large health pool they pose little threat if you can keep them stun-locked. They just seem to be there to eat up ammo and make you panic for a few seconds.

[Slaskia]

The only ancient infested I wouldn't mind having a tweak is the Disruptor:  having them nuke both your energy AND shields in one hit is a bit much imo.  Make it so that they hit your shields first...and if your are not fast enough to kill it/get away the second hit takes your energy as well (that's, of course, when you're up against just one...if there's more than one....).

 

Personally, I like to get on top of things (crates/consoles/etc) when dealing with swarms of infected and ancients I do my best to take out from a distance (priority: Disruptor, Toxic, then Healer).  That is if I don't get 'staggered off' my perch from popping Runners into the waiting claws of Chargers.....

[MJ12]

TL:DR

But... Hek with mods... Lvl 20 Toxic Ancient, 1 shot crit, 2 shot non crit.

 

If you're using what may be the best gun in the game and is definitely the best shotgun in the game on massively underleveled enemies (lv20?) and you think this is legitimate you're proooobably not making a very good case for Ancients not needing rebalancing.

[Gaiters]

If there's a tactic I'm simply missing, please fill me in. If not, I'd like to hear what the devs think of this suggestion.

There are many ways to stun them/knock them down. And even though they do charge at you you can usually get on a different level than them or evade them in some way(I have it easy since update 7 in that 'ghost' cloaks me when they get close).

Ancients are tough, they are annoying and they can stun lock you given the right conditions, but they are not over powered and they should not be nerfed.