Is Saryn's Venom Power Good Or Not?

[DALOS]

Quick answer: NO! It suck more then a vacuum cleaner.

 

Long Answer: It's bad because it's too complex and gimmicky to properly use.

 

Most powers (Especially first powers) Are pretty simple to use. Step 1: Cast the power step 2: Enjoy the results. With Venom it's Step 1: Cast the power Step 2: Shoot a glob of viral pus on the enemy so that it splashes onto near by enemies Step 3: Enjoy the results.

 

One more step can make a big difference. And overall makes the power gimmicky. Don't believe me? Then ask yourselves "Is this really necessary? Will I care if this was dropped from the game?" If the answer is "No" then it's a gimmick and adds no level of enjoyment to the game.

 

Some people might defend the unnecessary second step by saying "Well it adds challenge" or by saying "It's all about the weapon you use" but I can easy destroy both those counter arguments. Let's start with the first argument since It's just stupid.

 

Does the second step add a challenge? Well yes, who's saying otherwise? But the challenge is unnecessary. When have I ever needed to do more then click the middle mouse button to throw down a shocking sticky grenade? Or nail Grineer to the wall with a javelin? Or apply a second layer of armour to my rhino? Never that's when. These powers are simple, straight forward and require nothing more then a functioning finger to use. And pretty much every other power follows this pattern because it makes them easy, off hand powers that affect the battle with the only draw back being the energy consumption and the reasionable extents of said power which are very fair drawbacks. The former it makes you think about when you should use your energy reserve, while the latter makes it so you don't kill averything is a singal move. The second step of venom just adds more room for failure and &!$$ away 25 energy.

 

The second argument says that the power is effective if your using a shotgun or Flux Rifle or something like that. In other words that's saying that you have to change your loadout (weather you want to or not) to compensate for a power that should be working for you without a problem to begin with. That's not fair, that means that the power is so bad at it's job that it needs you to give up your freedom of loadout customisation to make something decent at it's job. So basically there's not enough toilets in the world to contain the amount of S#&$ in that argument.

 

Some people would also come to the powers defence by saying it has good damage proc. But my problem Isn't with the damage it deals but the bullS#&$ you have to go through to achieve it.

 

Venom is a power that doesn't need a buff It needs a complete over hull.

 

Ok DALOS then tell us how it should be changed

 

I have two ways to fix this.

 

1) Remove the second step: Just have the glob of pus explode on contact. The change is so easy a monkey can do it.

 

2) Turn it into a mine that does viral proc: I never liked the idea that I needed a valid target to cast that power and wondered what it would be like to stick the pus globs to walls or floor and then it hit me, that's what it should be! It'll definitely be more effective as a utility.

 

I hope the devs take my input to heart by the next update.

Edited August 4, 2014 by DALOS

[PeanutMonster]

The orbs should explode when the enemy dies, whether or not you actually hit the orbs with bullets.

[DALOS]

The orbs should explode when the enemy dies, whether or not you actually hit the orbs with bullets.

now that you mention it I had that idea in mind to 

[D3monicWrath]

I like her stat balance though, it really depends how you use her, Ive seen some beast people with the right loadouts.

[Quill.Onkko]

Plz be more respectful next time , and try to calm down we all have our concerns and issues with some maybe all warframe abilities , remember that the community is here to help and discuss issues like this , and maybe DE will change it if they see that it bothers player too much

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and i have to say that miasma needs a little 25% buff and become shield ignorant

[BrotherJudas008]

The orbs should explode when the enemy dies, whether or not you actually hit the orbs with bullets.

 

So much this, even if the range it then covers other enemies was halved if you didn't shoot it or something that would be fine.  

But especially against low level stuff you don't have time to aim at the random placed orbs they just die and it seems slightly wasteful.

 

That being said I like Venom it is a great skill, the Viral Proc I like, makes things drop dead quickly.

[Mak_Gohae]

I like it.

If an aoe weapon is used you can spread them around a whole lots.

It's basically a cheap aoe.

Edited August 4, 2014 by Mak_Gohae

[Ryouhi]

I love it.

It's one of my favorite abilities.

 

But i do have one problem with it..

Making the spores pop can be hard, it can even be impossible.

The one thing they should change is making the spores properly detect hits.

"I can clearly see that i'm hitting that spore, but it doesn't pop", is what i think most of the time.

 

Punch through helps with this, but it's more of a band-aid fix if anything.

 

Not sure about the spread on death.

Might make it too easy to use,

It's a pretty strong ability, especially in defense mission where you can practically infect the whole room with spores.

I believe the spreading wouldn't be a problem if the hit detection would properly work.

or if you really want to add the spread on death, make it so this only applies to the initial target.

 

In teamplay your squadmates often kill the target before you can spread it, so that might be useful, but like i said, restrict this to the initial target

[Azawarau]

The orbs should explode when the enemy dies, whether or not you actually hit the orbs with bullets.

I think shes fine as is

 

But this is a good suggestion

 

Itd make her less limited in build for synergy with her Venom

[GRNT]

Saryns venom is probably the second best scaling damage abilities due to that viral proc, which makes taking out high level enemies so easy and because its her 1 you can just recast it for cheap if you cant pop the spores

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

This might be too much of a change, but what if it became more of a trade-off, meaning it had the potential to be a lot more damaging than other first abilities. As it is right now, a fireball will generally deliver as much damage as venom. But what if we could continue shooting the spores endlessly? So they could continue to spread indefinitely as long as you keep hitting them? The damage/proc change might need to be decreased, but I think it could offer an interesting change.

 

On the other hand, making them spread on death would be a lot simpler and easier to balance.

[fadeinlight]

Not sure about the spread on death.

Might make it too easy to use,

It's a pretty strong ability, especially in defense mission where you can practically infect the whole room with spores.

I believe the spreading wouldn't be a problem if the hit detection would properly work.

or if you really want to add the spread on death, make it so this only applies to the initial target.

 

 

If the developers are worried about the "spread on death" making it too powerful they can tailor it by lowering the spread radius, the damage, the number of mobs hit by the burst, etc. etc. etc.

 

I like the idea, personally.  I just started playing her, and I find "Venom" to be practically useless in the early levels--it's frustrating enough to have to aim it...but to have to hit the spores, for a weak DoT?  And then to just watch the mob get wiped out by one of the other 'frame's 25 energy special in 0.1 seconds?  It's just worthless at this point.

 

I understand that it gets better...but I'm totally underwhelmed.

[fatpig84]

If the developers are worried about the "spread on death" making it too powerful they can tailor it by lowering the spread radius, the damage, the number of mobs hit by the burst, etc. etc. etc.

 

I like the idea, personally.  I just started playing her, and I find "Venom" to be practically useless in the early levels--it's frustrating enough to have to aim it...but to have to hit the spores, for a weak DoT?  And then to just watch the mob get wiped out by one of the other 'frame's 25 energy special in 0.1 seconds?  It's just worthless at this point.

 

I understand that it gets better...but I'm totally underwhelmed.

 

 

That means you will hate Loki, Trinity, Banshee and Zephyr's 1 a lot.

There are 1s that do a fair bit of damage and there are 1's that do nothing for that sort.

 

In any case, making it easier to pop is fine enough for me.

Edited August 7, 2014 by fatpig84

[StinkyPygmy]

Needs a TL;DR.

 

This isn't the first time venoms been looked at and it wont be the last.

The problem is a lot of players don't actually understand how venom works.

Venom provides constant, stacking viral procs and consistently reduces max health which is extremely effective against grineer and heavily armored targets. Basically its doing a lot more dmg then the dmg it shows every tick.

As far as popping spores I really don't find it that difficult. The problem is some weapons aren't very effective at it and in the case thats the weapon you brought you can choose to ignore venom or use it mostly for tanky single targets like heavy grineer. I find shotguns and basically all hitscan weapons pop spores just fine. As far as your argument that failing to pop spores makes it energy inefficient, its so little energy its not the end of the world and should you be successful (seriously just aim) you can train spores through out a room almost indefinitely. Turning 25 energy into a potentially room clearing ability. The "bullS#&$" you have to go through to achieve its high damage is non-existent.

 

Venom isn't supposed to be treated like fireball or some other direct dmg powers. It shines mostly in higher lvl content and is effective at making larger groups of tanky enemies significantly easier to kill. 

 

TL:DR

Venom works just fine you just need to stop and think about what it actually does and its intended purpose. 

Its very, very useful for a low cost power.

Making the spores easier to pop is a fair change (although I have no problem popping them) But over all OP is being way over dramatic in claiming that its super complicated and overly hard to use.

Just learn to aim and bring the right weapon if you intend to use it extensively. Its really not complicated on any level.

I Pray DE pays no attention to your suggested overhaul.

Edited August 7, 2014 by StinkyPygmy

[(PSN)Count_Dante]

Quick answer: Yes, it is good. Use it against the "endgame" toons. Use Phage, Boar (Prime), Hek, Braton, and deth machine gun with Djinn pet. I am sure there are other weapons good at poppin the pus buckets too.

 

You will enjoy the benefits. 

[Ryouhi]

As far as popping spores I really don't find it that difficult. The problem is some weapons aren't very effective at it and in the case thats the weapon you brought you can choose to ignore venom or use it mostly for tanky single targets like heavy grineer. I find shotguns and basically all hitscan weapons pop spores just fine.

 

I can use my supra with shred, unloading a whole magazine on an infected ancient and they still don't pop.

Generally i don't think punch through isn't helping that much anymore with popping spores.

 

That's really one of my only problems with the ability.

You shouldn't need a specific loadout to pop spores.

It should use hit detection like banshee's sonar f.e.

 

Something more akin to a QoL-change would be that when the initial target of Venom dies, it will spread the spores too.

This makes it more usable for when you have a team that just kills everything without looking^^

Might also make it more useful for lower level enemies that die before you can properly hit the spores imo

[StinkyPygmy]

I can use my supra with shred, unloading a whole magazine on an infected ancient and they still don't pop.

Generally i don't think punch through isn't helping that much anymore with popping spores.

 

That's really one of my only problems with the ability.

You shouldn't need a specific loadout to pop spores.

It should use hit detection like banshee's sonar f.e.

 

Something more akin to a QoL-change would be that when the initial target of Venom dies, it will spread the spores too.

This makes it more usable for when you have a team that just kills everything without looking^^

Might also make it more useful for lower level enemies that die before you can properly hit the spores imo

Yeah non hitscan weapons do struggle to pop spores I agree.

My beef isn't with making them easier to hit and viable for all weapons.

My problem was that OP is suggesting a completely unnecessary overhaul when a much easier solution to his problem (hit detection) is to make them easier to pop. Problem solved, venom is now loadout friendly.

[(PSN)Count_Dante]

I can use my supra with shred, unloading a whole magazine on an infected ancient and they still don't pop.

Generally i don't think punch through isn't helping that much anymore with popping spores.

 

That's really one of my only problems with the ability.

You shouldn't need a specific loadout to pop spores.

It should use hit detection like banshee's sonar f.e.

 

Something more akin to a QoL-change would be that when the initial target of Venom dies, it will spread the spores too.

This makes it more usable for when you have a team that just kills everything without looking^^

Might also make it more useful for lower level enemies that die before you can properly hit the spores imo

 

Try also adding deth machine rifle to your pet. Personally I find it better than Sweeper (but no facts).