Current Trading System Is Inconvenient Af

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

There is no reason an auction house can have bidding and a buy now option.  Looks like the AH is actually incredibly popular in the official poll.

[Quizel]

Trading needs to be an inconvenience. As anything of convince would destroy the economy in about a week.

 

If trading were too easy all tenno would do it. I got stock piles of things worth 5-20 plat here and there (current market values) but I'd rather just donate to DE and get my plat that way-as trading isn't worth my time right now.

 

If AH was implemented and because tons of players have stock piles, the current value would be driven way down to the lowest price possible extremely quickly.  

 

Example:

Lets say I wanted to get Rhino Prime with current trade system.

 

I could either

A) Farm it myself-takes a long time

B) Trade for everything I need-pay a hefty price.

 

Both A and B I could feel good about. The item itself will remain prestigious and sought after as something extra special.

 

Now put in convenient Auction House.

A) Farm it myself-takes a long time.

B) Trade for everything I need- pay a plat or 2.

 

I'd choose B. The item itself won't feel special anymore. Just another thing to grind to get mastery points.

 

Now DE could combat the massive drop in value the items have by putting ridiculous drop rates on desirable things.

A) Farm it myself- takes years.

B) Trade for everything I need- pay some plat.

 

I'd choose neither and probably quit the game. The items would remain extra special feeling but since I can't reasonably get them myself it would be something I'm not interested in. The game would feel like it switched to pay to win or pay to have all the best stuff.

I should also make the point that anything I did manage to find would be worthless because tons of other players also found it. So it's reasonable to assume that the only way I'd get any plat is by making a donation to DE.

 

 

TL/DR closing thoughts

Focus on adjusting RNG so that all tenno are happy ( with reasonable grinding) and less on trading issues.

Edited August 8, 2014 by Quizel

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

-snip-

Trading is already in the game.  And AH won't change that.  An AH just makes it more fair.

[Quizel]

Trading is already in the game.  And AH won't change that.  An AH just makes it more fair.

Mods aside for the moment:

If I was given the choice between grinding for a couple hours or paying 1 plat for each item I need, which do you think I'd do?

Do you think I'd appreciate the item or would I view it merely as mastery rank?

 

Right now I hold onto practically everything I had to acquire in a mission and enjoy each and every one. A full blown AH would not be a healthy change for the game unless it game with huge restrictions.  

 

Edit: I failed to think up any reasonable restriction that wouldn't drive current market values to the ground.

Edited August 9, 2014 by Quizel

[JacobLittle]

Trading needs to be an inconvenience. As anything of convince would destroy the economy in about a week.

 

If trading were too easy all tenno would do it. I got stock piles of things worth 5-20 plat here and there (current market values) but I'd rather just donate to DE and get my plat that way-as trading isn't worth my time right now.

 

If AH was implemented and because tons of players have stock piles, the current value would be driven way down to the lowest price possible extremely quickly.  

 

Example:

Lets say I wanted to get Rhino Prime with current trade system.

 

I could either

A) Farm it myself-takes a long time

B) Trade for everything I need-pay a hefty price.

 

Both A and B I could feel good about. The item itself will remain prestigious and sought after as something extra special.

 

Now put in convenient Auction House.

A) Farm it myself-takes a long time.

B) Trade for everything I need- pay a plat or 2.

 

I'd choose B. The item itself won't feel special anymore. Just another thing to grind to get mastery points.

 

Now DE could combat the massive drop in value the items have by putting ridiculous drop rates on desirable things.

A) Farm it myself- takes years.

B) Trade for everything I need- pay some plat.

 

I'd choose neither and probably quit the game. The items would remain extra special feeling but since I can't reasonably get them myself it would be something I'm not interested in. The game would feel like it switched to pay to win or pay to have all the best stuff.

I should also make the point that anything I did manage to find would be worthless because tons of other players also found it. So it's reasonable to assume that the only way I'd get any plat is by making a donation to DE.

 

 

TL/DR closing thoughts

Focus on adjusting RNG so that all tenno are happy ( with reasonable grinding) and less on trading issues.

Ya know, I can breed plenty of Kubrows and never support the devs because i would have tons of plat especially from any Lotus pet. If they implement this, it would take longer to get rich in plat making players more inclined to buy plat seeing as there is a massive price drop on everything.

 

In the end, people like shortcuts so with current system, they use kubrows or with AH system, they buy plat(at least for cash shop).

 

In the end, the best solution would be bringing the trading forum to the game with proper search criteria from the forum. That way not only shall users in the forum get to use the trading forum, but everyone in game can use the trading forum. Two trading forums for one game. In forum and in game.

 

All trades handled in Dojo. Spamming chat every 2 minute unnecessary burden. You can call it a half assed AH which is what the trading post in THIS forum is.

 

Why should the trading post be exclusive to the forum...When it can be implemented in the game. And able to use keyboards to type in words of wisdom or bids/offer. Yes, it's the usual do it yourself thing that is better than chat.

 

Same goes for recruit forum in game as well as mission browser.

[Airwolfen]

Mods aside for the moment:

If I was given the choice between grinding for a couple hours or paying 1 plat for each item I need, which do you think I'd do?

Do you think I'd appreciate the item or would I view it merely as mastery rank?

 

Right now I hold onto practically everything I had to acquire and enjoy each and every one.

 

A rhino part will not become 1 plat. I can tell you that. A AH has a lot more going for it then just supply and demand if i could buty up a lot of low cost prime parts, I would buy them and put them back up at the highest price. That is the competetive side of a AH and it happens in every game.

 

And even bringing over a trading board like the forums have (as stated above me) is a lot better then the current style of doing things in-game.

[Quizel]

A rhino part will not become 1 plat. I can tell you that. A AH has a lot more going for it then just supply and demand if i could buty up a lot of low cost prime parts, I would buy them and put them back up at the highest price. That is the competetive side of a AH and it happens in every game.

 

And even bringing over a trading board like the forums have (as stated above me) is a lot better then the current style of doing things in-game.

I don't have the numbers, but maybe DE does...but any overstock supply will very quickly be distributed to anyone that still needs it.

 

 Anyone that has spare parts is going to list them in the AH for easy convenient trading for that valuable plat. The idea would be to convert those useless items into plat.

 

To get them to sell, they'll undercut other competitors or list it at the lowest price possible. As long as supply > player base is true, the item will be traded for the minimum plat.

 

2nd note assuming prices were stable above 1 plat: Yeah, I probably would just play the AH for hours just like D3 to get what I want for dirt cheap w/o stepping foot into the void. Hurray for not having to actually play the game. Who doesn't enjoy clicking "update list" fast as you can for hours and hours to snipe the best deal.

Edited August 9, 2014 by Quizel

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Mods aside for the moment:

If I was given the choice between grinding for a couple hours or paying 1 plat for each item I need, which do you think I'd do?

Do you think I'd appreciate the item or would I view it merely as mastery rank?

 

Right now I hold onto practically everything I had to acquire in a mission and enjoy each and every one. A full blown AH would not be a healthy change for the game unless it game with huge restrictions.  

 

Edit: I failed to think up any reasonable restriction that wouldn't drive current market values to the ground.

I would grind.  It would be healthy for the game.

[Quizel]

I would grind. 

Well, can't argue with that, but would the majority of the player base also grind, or would they just pay the 1 plat, get the item, say meh, and go play some other game?

Edited August 9, 2014 by Quizel

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Well, can't argue with that, but would the majority of the player base also grind, or would they just pay the 1 plat, get the item, say meh, and go play something else?

I think some people would buy "required mods" like serration and farm everything else since loot hunting is sort of all there us to do in the game.  Paying 1 plat instead of 5 isn't going to change someone's view on the game. I have played the game without spending a cent on it.

[Tubsie]

They should fix the damn dojos before adding new stuff for trade. Nearly every single time "Session unavailable" when you try to get to the dojo. Or if you get in, the other one doesn't receive your invite and so on.

 

Also i think the trading post idea in a way good, in a way bad. Most likely it will cause the prices to drop more drastically than right now, just so people can get their things sold. You can just check the cheapest price and put a little lower in hopes for it to sell, then the next guy puts a little lower and so on. Good thing is, you can get stuff easily and see the prices and so on.

 

Oh, and i hope if this thing comes, there is a haggle option. The buyer can offer a new price, then the seller can either accept it or decline by giving another price, or just keeping the original price.

Edited August 9, 2014 by Tubsie

[Yezzik]

We need an AH system, if only to fix the problem of not being able to trade with people because one of us has a Strict NAT issue.

[Quizel]

I think some people would buy "required mods" like serration and farm everything else since loot hunting is sort of all there us to do in the game.  Paying 1 plat instead of 5 isn't going to change someone's view on the game. I have played the game without spending a cent on it.

I'd have less of an issue if purely and only mods being traded in the AH system. I have yet to feel some sort of an attachment or feeling of greatness/success when obtaining a mod.

 

My fear is that new mods will become 100x more rare than say crimson dervish-removing almost any chance I could acquire it myself.

My second fear if the above became reality is that once mods are being traded in the AH, DE will cave and allow everything to be traded.

Edited August 9, 2014 by Quizel

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

I'd have less of an issue if purely and only mods being traded in the AH system. I have yet to feel some sort of an attachment or feeling of greatness/success when obtaining a mod.

 

My fear is that new mods will become 100x more rare than say crimson dervish-removing almost any chance I could acquire it myself.

My second fear if the above became reality is that once mods are being traded in the AH, DE will cave and allow everything to be traded.

Allowing everything to be traded would be great.

[cedekane]

Was unsure where the Dev's wanted this feedback so i put it here and in the poll post...

 

Question: 

Do you like the idea of an auction house that is accessible in public player hubs?

Answer: Maybe.

 

Explanation:  I've played many games where "playing the market" has been a game in itself.  It can be fun in itself, and the prospect of profits enticing.  Shouting over chat is a system that deserves to R.I.P.. I would love a quick an easy way to get profit for some of the things I have leftover in my inventory.  

 

My main concerns of an auction house is that it will affect the frequency in which loot is distributed.  

 

A good loot distribution will be just hard enough to make me feel like I've earned something, but not hard enough to make me frustrated and rage quit.  It keeps me excited to play the game.  Examples of games with good loot distribution are Borderlands 1 & 2, Diablo 1, Diablo 2...Warframe's isn't too bad either, every now and then I glimpse the FTP, but overall, a good attempt.  Unfortunately none of these have AH.    

 

Bad Loot distribution is...well the opposite.  It is created when, for whatever motivation, an attempt is made to balance loot with an economy of players which play at different frequencies.  Loot is normally controlled through throttling and manipulation.  My most recent encounter with this came from Diablo 3, but you can see it frequently in MMO's.  It makes players feel horrible and sad ;__;.

 

The most important thing i can stress is that in the loot quest should be a story that makes players feel good about their achievements.  Playing a game with a friend or family member is fun.  Scavenging for loot and almost dying is fun.  Playing with friends and finding the holy grail can be a blast.  And on the flip side?  Having to buy an item from an auction house because the loot design is so tight that onlyone player per hour can acquire item your farming for?  Annoying, not fun, frustrating, rage quit.

 

Now I wish I could give you all a solution, I haven't seen a good example yet...  

[Konoichi]

this trading via chat ist just plain stupid ..i wanna play the game not stand around running in circles until i finally find a buyer or a seller .... its frustrating ... sometimes the buyer/seller already got another deal prices are just plain stupid because of that .... not only would a auction house be mutch less time wasting but also soo mutch better ..... if i think about games like guild wars 2 ... you have an item put it in and nearl a few secounds later its sold ... and the good thing about it .... it works like a charm ..you can find everythign you need in mearly secounds without standing around hours not playing and always TYPING THE SAME F*******ING LINE !!!!!

[Gurzil]

As much as people try to ask for "Price Checks" try to state "X Price" this would be a S#&$ty system. Sites would pop up all over the place saying what something is worth in a player driven market, and you'd never be able to get anywhere. You'd also kill one of the few reasons dojos get used anymore.

 

 

I blame DE for that one though.. All these months and out dojos are still barely worth calling such, more like decoration cemeteries.. Put the labs in the liset, take out duel rooms (since the break anyways) and add this auction bs, and you killed the dojo..

 

Tons of dojo addition posts get ignored.. But trade is that big of an issue?

 

This is an undercutting conspiracy!!

Edited August 9, 2014 by Gurzil

[Jugger0]

Once you open up an Aucton House or spam list style trading environment, you'll enter a whole new world of pain.

If there's a way to make a buck, the gold spammers will have a reason and find a way to invade this game.

Currently it is transaction capped and personal 1:1

Keep it that way.

[Rhekinos]

I'm also against an auction house. Maybe just a notice board (in dojo as well) where players can ask what they want and have people pm them.

 

 

As said before auction houses will deflate the economy. It's already so much easier to get a Frost Prime over normal Frost. If you have the tradable plat, just ask in Trade Chat and you'll get a full Frost Prime set in under 10p. That's around 30 times cheaper than buying a normal Frost. Right now the only thing stopping a semi-new casual player from getting a Frost Prime straight away is chance. Auction houses will just give players an instant method of getting something much more easily than say farming for them. You can argue that farming sucks but you won't appreciate something as much as you would unless you've given some effort into it.

 

Just my opinion. Sure it helps reduce scam but if you're willing to trade/buy something over farming for it it'd have to have some risks to it at east. Plus there's always Tennoarmory...

[(PSN)Orpheon-]

After taking a look through the thread, I was a bit surprised to see that no one mentioned some of the ways Team Fortress 2 has handled its trading. Similarly to the trade channel in Warframe, TF2 has Trade Servers, but those don't really garner as much attention as a site like TF2Outpost does. 

 

On TF2Outpost, players can list items from their backpack that they want to sell in exchange for the price they want it at. If they want offers, there's an option for players to leave offers and negotiate. The trades are also not relegated to TF2's keys/metal currency, as players can also list other items they wish to trade for. I feel like this is the most straightforward alternative to the current trading channel. Players can bump their trades every 30 minutes, and trades are automatically closed after a week of inactivity. 

 

I realize that the implementation of a trading outpost like this isn't so simple as "make a website"  since--as of right now--there is no current way for us to access our arsenals outside of the game with the exception of the few steam summer/winter sale cosmetics which are found in the steam inventories. TF2Outpost is only a place to list trades, it does not do the trade itself, that still has to be done within TF2 itself. I know some players clamor for trades to be instantaneous and wherever instead of having to take a drip to the dojo sometimes, but at least having a place in gamet o list you want to trade and then go play the game is a step in the right direction as opposed to drop what your selling in the trade channel every two minutes hoping for some player to bite in my honest opinion.

[(PSN)HyrulianSavior]

I rather enjoy WildStars approach with Cred. If a similar item is listed, only the lowest priced amount is shown and once it is sold out, the next lowest one is shown. No names are given, just the amount. This way, people control the economy directly. If someone is listing an ammo drum for 100p, it is never shown because other people are selling it for a more realistic value. The person who will list is for 100p will either have to stop listing it, or change the price to a more reasonable price. 

Granted this method does have drawbacks with the market being flooded with low priced items but like most things that are based on the economy, it would eventually stabilize and things would be forced to be sold for the actual worth based on the successful sales.

[DirkDeadeye]

Spamming a list of wares in a chat going 90 miles an hour isn't a lot of fun.

[JacobLittle]

I'm also against an auction house. Maybe just a notice board (in dojo as well) where players can ask what they want and have people pm them.

 

 

As said before auction houses will deflate the economy. It's already so much easier to get a Frost Prime over normal Frost. If you have the tradable plat, just ask in Trade Chat and you'll get a full Frost Prime set in under 10p. That's around 30 times cheaper than buying a normal Frost. Right now the only thing stopping a semi-new casual player from getting a Frost Prime straight away is chance. Auction houses will just give players an instant method of getting something much more easily than say farming for them. You can argue that farming sucks but you won't appreciate something as much as you would unless you've given some effort into it.

 

Just my opinion. Sure it helps reduce scam but if you're willing to trade/buy something over farming for it it'd have to have some risks to it at east. Plus there's always Tennoarmory...

At some point after months of killing and not getting certain mods one would have earned his dues and the right to obtain such and such mod through trading like stances for example or one tough to get prime part.

 

Depreciation value eh? You guys seem like Indiana Jones. Well, some get stuff with dumb luck when not looking for the item anyway.

[JacobLittle]

Once you open up an Aucton House or spam list style trading environment, you'll enter a whole new world of pain.

If there's a way to make a buck, the gold spammers will have a reason and find a way to invade this game.

Currently it is transaction capped and personal 1:1 where I can get rich fast overpricing everything and get away with it...

Keep it that way. :)

Yes, keep it that way so slumlords can stay rich banking off of suckas(gullible people) and have people glued to chat spamming every 2min to make a quick buck. Why should gold sellers spam chat when everyone else can?

[JacobLittle]

Well, can't argue with that, but would the majority of the player base also grind, or would they just pay the 1 plat, get the item, say meh, and go play some other game?

That is already happening with many mods people have spent countless hours not trying to get, but killing everything that drops it for sport only to realize that after months of killing, such and such mod is still not there.

 

No wonder people turn to trading. The immense grind killed it, not trading. Most people don't even have all stance mods especially the ones from common thugs.

 

Then there is that grind for prime parts which involves long grind for enough keys and enough grind for that one part. Well, they can always buy keys.

 

The triangulator or Hydroid should be tradable or beacons.