Why So Much Excalibur Hate? :(

[Aercascade]

All excals with radial blind are welcome in my groups.

Those who don't have a prejudice for what other players pick are the people that win from this.

Wooohoo.

To quote what I said in a thread before:

 

 

Those who decide to frown upon another for being ignorant are elitest; elitest players are the type I stay away from.

 

For the record. Mostly. All the "elitest" players I've been in towers with turn out to be a morale killer and an utter waste of my time.

I've been in groups where there are high MR players that are utterly useless; huge trolls and once again. A waste of my time.

If I'm looking for something more specific in chat.

 

I'll specify: Looking for Loki with Radial Disarm Build. etc...

 

Mostly players who know what I'm talking about will be like: "Oh guyz I have an excal with a radial blind build! Let me join."

Now that we can see the players level who joins it makes it even easier to check the guy and see if he'll be adequate for the situation.

[(PSN)ssj4notz]

It's a two way street.  You can't get me to like Xcal, and I can't get you too see why there is always a better choice. 

 

Can a great player do well with him? Yes, but they would do even better with a good frame.

 

Are most random players going to be good players? No.  Keeping that in mind, there is no reason to take a random Xcal on my keys.  If I know you, played with you, and you proved to me that you are the one-in-a-million, good Xcal player then of course I would let you use him, but that is not what the thread is about.

 

The problem with Xcal is that he is middle of the pack in terms of usefulness. However, he promotes a bad play style, and you see it at all levels with Xcal.  It doesn't help that he is the primary starter frame. 

 

What kind of "bad playstyle" does excalibur promote? Keep mobs CC'd? Don't other CC frames promote that too?

[insaninater]

What kind of "bad playstyle" does excalibur promote? Keep mobs CC'd? Don't other CC frames promote that too?

 

I will say that his rad jav promotes a reliance on direct damage, and that reliance on this is fatal long-term, but overall i think the problem is more that he's associated with being the default starter frame more than anything else.

[Alphafox]

What kind of "bad playstyle" does excalibur promote? Keep mobs CC'd? Don't other CC frames promote that too?

Why are you trying to reason someone who lost reason or doesn't apply logic?

 

It's a two way street.  You can't get me to like Xcal, and I can't get you too see why there is always a better choice. 

 

Can a great player do well with him? Yes, but they would do even better with a good frame.

 

Are most random players going to be good players? No.  Keeping that in mind, there is no reason to take a random Xcal on my keys.  If I know you, played with you, and you proved to me that you are the one-in-a-million, good Xcal player then of course I would let you use him, but that is not what the thread is about.

 

The problem with Xcal is that he is middle of the pack in terms of usefulness. However, he promotes a bad play style, and you see it at all levels with Xcal.  It doesn't help that he is the primary starter frame. 

I don't see where you are going at all.. a great player will do well no matter which frame he is using, most random players are going to be ''bad'' I don't see how this is related to Excalibur. ''One in a million good Excal'', dude 90% of the people on that thread knew what to do with Excalibur that's far from ''One in a milliong good Excal players''. Promote a bad playstyle? You mean that there is worse than:

 

Trinity:Allow you to not use your brain for a few seconds,and allow you to resplenish your energy

Loki: Make the AI even dumber than it is.

Hydroid: Press one button and transform a session in a real patience test.

Vauban:''Using your brain? Nope! Not anymore!''

Nekros: ''Huehuehue i'm a loot machine!!!!''

(I'm barely exaggerating what i'm saying)

and many other frames.

If keeping mobs CC'ed is a bad playstyle.. geez I don't know how your teamates deal with you.

 

I will say that his rad jav promotes a reliance on direct damage, and that reliance on this is fatal long-term, but overall i think the problem is more that he's associated with being the default starter frame more than anything else.

I can guarantee you that no one use Radial Javelin.(Expect people who are new to the game.)

[(PSN)ssj4notz]

I will say that his rad jav promotes a reliance on direct damage, and that reliance on this is fatal long-term, but overall i think the problem is more that he's associated with being the default starter frame more than anything else.

 

Hmmm... With that in mind Volt would also promote reliance on direct damage... Especially because of "...potent alternative to gunplay..." in his description...

 

But I was thinking more along the lines of CC (Radial Blind)...

[insaninater]

Hmmm... With that in mind Volt would also promote reliance on direct damage... Especially because of "...potent alternative to gunplay..." in his description...

 

But I was thinking more along the lines of CC (Radial Blind)...

 

Oh, well i don't think CC is a bad thing, you need CC.

[RahuHordika]

Oh, well i don't think CC is a bad thing, you need CC.

I think he was refering to over-reliance on one ability out of a whole kit, which is never good no matter the frame. Of course this does not make him perfect or bad but I cannot blame people who spam that power, on their own the other abilities quickly lose effectiveness on what they're meant to do as levels rise (minus jump, that one's tile dependant).

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Xcal promotes reliance on flat damage skills and running at enemies spamming melee. I see way too many Xcal's doing this on later planets and needing to be baby-sitted.  I put up with it on the star chart but not on my keys.

 

A good player will do well with any frame.  A bad player will at least be semi-useful with a good frame, but they will actually make the team worse with a mediocre frame like Xcal.

[Lorthos_Mornin]

Xcal promotes reliance on flat damage skills and running at enemies spamming melee. I see way too many Xcal's doing this on later planets and needing to be baby-sitted.  I put up with it on the star chart but not on my keys.

 

A good player will do well with any frame.  A bad player will at least be semi-useful with a good frame, but they will actually make the team worse with a mediocre frame like Xcal.

I think you're seeing all the people that got there when taxis unlocked the underlying node.  Really, I don't use Excal that much, but he's a lot of fun and very useful.

 

To address the OP and other posters: as has been said if people put out certain requirements on their key, just do it, or don't expect an invite.  I require certain frames and weapons as well, although all rhino prime + boltor prime is not at all what I would want.  In fact the negative opinion some people apparently have about excal players, I have about most rhino players.  Rhino is the jack of all trades but master of none, and worse, most people just Iron Skin and call it a day.  On a late game mission, that isn't helpful to the team.  I think Rhino tends to teach an even worse playstyle than the one DesecratedFlame says excal teaches while we're on the subject.  People will Iron Skin and stand in the middle of the room taking hits because in low level and mid tier content, Iron Skin can take hits all day.  At least Excal strongly encourages movement.

 

Edited for additional thoughts.

Edited August 22, 2014 by Lorthos_Mornin

[(PSN)ssj4notz]

Xcal promotes reliance on flat damage skills and running at enemies spamming melee. I see way too many Xcal's doing this on later planets and needing to be baby-sitted.  I put up with it on the star chart but not on my keys.

 

A good player will do well with any frame.  A bad player will at least be semi-useful with a good frame, but they will actually make the team worse with a mediocre frame like Xcal.

 

While I will agree (to a limited extent) with you that Excalibur promotes reliance on damage skills, you will also have to acknowledge that all damage frames would thus teach the player the same thing. Rhino, Volt, Ash, etc... I don't see how Excal would teach a player to spam melee - perhaps more new players would opt to shoot enemies while they're blind; it's what I did...

 

A good player will do well with any frame, yes. A bad player will still do poorly with any frame. It's not the frame - it's the player...

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

While I will agree (to a limited extent) with you that Excalibur promotes reliance on damage skills, you will also have to acknowledge that all damage frames would thus teach the player the same thing. Rhino, Volt, Ash, etc... I don't see how Excal would teach a player to spam melee - perhaps more new players would opt to shoot enemies while they're blind; it's what I did...

 

A good player will do well with any frame, yes. A bad player will still do poorly with any frame. It's not the frame - it's the player...

Those other frames don't and their skills have uses besides just damage.  Volt, for example, has deployable cover and a spammable team speed buff.  Even Volt's damage skills have utility in that they stun in addition to their damage.

[adarazrad]

Why do people saying that excal is medicore?

I keep entire room in lockdown, my whole team getting melee damage that soma will never achive, itss spammable while active. Makes corrupted vor go afk, and i move fast with my slash dash

[RoboDoge]

Why do people saying that excal is medicore?

I keep entire room in lockdown, my whole team getting melee damage that soma will never achive, itss spammable while active. Makes corrupted vor go afk, and i move fast with my slash dash

Why? Because majority of players run away from frames that need a bit of brains to make them good. It is easier to spam 2 on Rhino, 2 on Loki, 4 on Nyx, 4 on Valkyr, etc, than worrying about builds and power cycle.

Edited August 22, 2014 by RoboDoge

[adarazrad]

Why? Because majority of players run away from frames that need a bit of brains to make them good. It is easier to spam 2 on Rhino, 2 on Loki, 4 on Nyx, 4 on Valkyr, etc, than worrying about builds and power cycle.

I love my blind more then any of these, well not sure about loki but yeah you got my point

[Rakshal]

Why? Because majority of players run away from frames that need a bit of brains to make them good. It is easier to spam 2 on Rhino, 2 on Loki, 4 on Nyx, 4 on Valkyr, etc, than worrying about builds and power cycle.

Valk's ult isn't that good, I think you mean spam 2 for her. XD

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Why? Because majority of players run away from frames that need a bit of brains to make them good. It is easier to spam 2 on Rhino, 2 on Loki, 4 on Nyx, 4 on Valkyr, etc, than worrying about builds and power cycle.

Nice ad hominem, but the frame I mainly use at the moment is Trinity.  She is probably the most involved frame in the game when played corrrectly.

[(PSN)ssj4notz]

Those other frames don't and their skills have uses besides just damage.  Volt, for example, has deployable cover and a spammable team speed buff.  Even Volt's damage skills have utility in that they stun in addition to their damage.

 

You could pretty much say the same about Excalibur. He has a very useful CC skill in Radial Blind which, again, with the right kind of build (range, efficiency, and range) can lock down an entire tileset. Mind you, this also frees up your team mates to go nuts on the mobs since they (mobs) won't be targeting them (teammates) either.

 

Now we know that your evaluation of Excalibur is purely subjective and biased. Every argument you have offered for other useful frames can be said about Excal as well. You obviously have no knowledge of this fantastic frame and perhaps you haven't had the chance to truly utilize this frame to it's full potential.

 

Perhaps his playstyle does not fit yours. That is not sufficient grounds to discount this frame as a bad one. Maybe you can make another frame shine - a frame that I have difficulty with. But I won't subject that frame to the obvious bias you have for Excalibro.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

snip

http://youtu.be/3kskWOgodzQ

Only good Excal I have seen, and the frame is still mediocre and teaches bad habits, as I already explained.  And no, the same can not be said about Excalibur at all.

[CapnFusterCluck]

Except Loki permanently disarms them, so they have to rush at you to do damage, which Vauban can easily shut down with his Vortex or Bastille.

Have you ever considered that Radial Disarm DOESN'T blind them? Meaning that they are only disarmed, and they have a chance to attack you? And hit you for maybe 300 on higher up levels? And that Radial Blind's cost is much cheaper to that of Radial Disarm's?

 

I won't even talk about Vauban at this point. Your post is too ridiculous.

 

In comparison for energy NRG costs: 

 

Excalibur: 12-25 energy, 5 second stuns in addition to a blind that doesn't ALLOW enemies to hit you (for 10-30 seconds, depending on build).

 

Loki + Vauban: 75-100 for RD in addition to 50-75 NRG for Bastille. Radial Disarm is permanent, sure, but Bastille isn't. 

 

I think Excalibur has better room clear.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

And that Radial Blind's cost is much cheaper to that of Radial Disarm's?

You have never had a good Trinity on your team, have you?

[adarazrad]

Excalibur rocks, close thread.

Off topic question to volt users:

Shield got hp or gone only when duration over?

[vaugahn]

You have never had a good Trinity on your team, have you?

 

Excalibur + Trinity is a god combo. With just the two of them you could go as long as you wanted in any survival mission, so long as the Trinity plays smart. That's a better combo than Loki + Trinity.

 

Shield got hp or gone only when duration over?

 

Duration. 

[adarazrad]

Excalibur + eveything is good.

Got myself 92 k on D nikana with my excal, soma or boltor can do that?

Also i wish the blind bug would stay

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Excalibur + Trinity is a god combo. With just the two of them you could go as long as you wanted in any survival mission, so long as the Trinity plays smart. That's a better combo than Loki + Trinity.

 

 

Duration. 

God combo is Trinity + Loki + Vauban.

[vaugahn]

God combo is Trinity + Loki + Vauban.

 

Depends on the mission. For a void mission I'd rather have Excalibur than Vauban, RB is better there than any of Vauban's abilities.. For an infested mission, or really any defense mission, Vauban is the frame of choice. RB makes Loki a bit pointless to have around, so I'd probably switch him out with either a Nova or a Valkyr, depending on the mission type. Trinity + Loki + Vauban isn't really that great.