Event - Misleading Enemy Levels

[DSpite]

 It is a little ridiculous that they keep rehashing this "Enemies one shot you so it's a challenge" issue.  It's difficult to make enemies work well together.  It's difficult to make a group of enemies an effective challenge, but in general, the enemies doing too much damage is never going to work well.

 

 One good thing to realize is that maybe enemy damage scaling should be a bit different.  Early on they do no damage and take very little to die and people can mow through them, then you level up your stuff and keep mowing through them for a while, but their damage keeps going up.  By the time you can't just blow them away, their damage is so high that suddenly you always die before you even shoot them.

 

 The damage needs to move differently.  Start low, then angle damage up faster then the armor and shields on enemies.  The damage needs to come up sooner, but it also needs to angle off again at some point because they would get too strong too fast.  In the same way that players start weak, jump their damage up a good amount then plateau at a sort of max damage.  The enemies need to do the same thing.  Damage needs to jump up at some point and then stop going up.

 

 As for challenge, work more towards enemies that work together and have specific weaknesses.  Have to lead them into certain spots.  Make it possible to flank an enemy.  Keep them from being absolutely aware of where the players are even if an alert is running.  But don't just make them have infinitely scaling damage.

 

You know why they need to one-shot you? Because DE knows you are putting out enough DPS to take out a battleship. If they don't one-shot you, you will treat the mission like trash and walk all over it.

 

We STILL walk all over it. I was talking to mates and (we did not actually do this) but discussed going max punch-through on guns and just shooting everything through the walls and doors, running an Enemy Radar mod so we would know when everything is dead.

 

The players with a ton of mods can trivialize the entire event, with explosives that kill the Eximuses through the Frost shields, or Invisibility or a million other things, and the newbies just play carefully.

 

Less drama please.

[KorbanGado]

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Using multiquote option will do the same thing, but without taking up a whole page with responses in case you weren't aware of it.

That out of the way, simply telling people the equivalent of "get on your level" helps no one and only feeds to baiting unproductive conversations. Just because one person (in this case, yourself) is good at a game and walks over everything with their cool gear and knows how games function doesn't mean everyone does. Every single person in the audience of this game is not at the same level of using the mechanics in the game, of playing games, of processing the information given to them on screen, or of the same play style. Assuming they do and then telling them they need to "learn-2-play-better" does nothing but cause drama. Funny, considering the last thing stated was "Less drama please."

The core of the topic here is that someone sees the level range, goes in anticipating that level range, and then gets surprised over the fact that they are in fact much meatier than that level range would normally be. No, it isn't a problem for everyone, but then again not everyone is some l33t d00d that can play games blindfolded, gets all the luck with RNG drops, completely grasps the game mechanics, or spends enough time playing to do so do to having responsibilities or the likes.

Also, not every new person plays it safe. If they do, that means every person I've ever been grouped with that has a low mastery rank is just ignoring rank-up tests and dies a lot more than those newbies.

See how constructive things where being talked about before? Such things as adding indicators of some kind to distinguish these stronger enemies from the rest? Even the options to turn those things off for all those hardcore "I don't care" folks? Thats constructive discussion. "Learn2play" is only constructive to coming off sounding like a jerk, and can help make anyone reading totally ignore any points you may have had - such as using explosives to kill people through shields. 

 

[PeanutMonster]

Experienced players? You DO realize that NEW players are scared of the enemy and are NOT Trackmania MOD enhanced, hence they stay at range, shoot things, and take cover. That is how you get through that mission with rubbish gear. I've been soloing it on an account under two weeks old. With a Glaive from a login reward.

 

Did you even read my post?

[DSpite]

Did you even read my post?

 

"These supposedly level 12 enemies deal twice the damage compared to the enemies in T4 Void mission. Something is not right here."

 

It's a Special Event for 3 days worth of Booster. It makes perfect sense. Why are YOU surprised?

 

"My point is this: What the hell is the point of even having enemies scale in levels if they don't mean anything?"

 

Enemy level should be an indicator of how hard they are to KILL, not what weapons they have. Tenno are a perfect example. How often do you take low level frames into high level missions?

 

And they do mean something. They teach people never to assume anything, and that we can be killed, and that normally we don't face these type of combats because DE is taking it easy on us. ALL enemies should do something akin to this.

 

Powerful hand shotguns? Full face blast should down you.

Sniper Rifle units? Should get punch through a lot of cover

Flux Rifle mobs? Woe to your face should you get within 25m.

Melee units? They should 1 shot your shields AT THE VERY LEAST like they do on Borderlands.

 

You just got a taste of what mobs should be ALL THE TIME. So sorry you have to actually think for once in a mission. Perhaps this is not the game for you?

[PeanutMonster]

"These supposedly level 12 enemies deal twice the damage compared to the enemies in T4 Void mission. Something is not right here."

 

It's a Special Event for 3 days worth of Booster. It makes perfect sense. Why are YOU surprised?

 

What is the point of having enemy levels if they won't indicate how powerful the enemies of the mission are?

[Somedude1000]

What is the point of having enemy levels if they won't indicate how powerful the enemies of the mission are?

 

Perhaps they wanted shock value? It did catch lots of peeps off guard

Edited August 17, 2014 by Somedude1000

[PeanutMonster]

You just got a taste of what mobs should be ALL THE TIME. So sorry you have to actually think for once in a mission. Perhaps this is not the game for you?

 

New players should face enemies like that on their first missions? That makes perfect sense!

[DSpite]

What is the point of having enemy levels if they won't indicate how powerful the enemies of the mission are?

You do understand that its probably not possible to just "put a level number in" without effecting MORE then just damage output? It's a Special Event, if you get invited to a Special Event ANYTHING, are you seriously not going to wonder what the Special part is? Does DE seriously have to spell it out?

You might lose 3 minutes of your precious playtime discovering the extra damage output. Brush yourself off, and DO IT BETTER. Did your precious Frame explode and you had to rebuild it? No. What the hell is the problem? Did you need DE to warn you when you go on Alerts? Boss nodes? Conflict Zones?

Did you come and complain in the forums when you found Earth Kubrows to hit harder than the Grineer on the planet? I hope not, so why complain about something that has zero permanent effects, give you a 3 day booster, and you only need to run 2-3 times?

I've probably already run that mission easily over 50 times just because I actually have to dodge for once, and not just point ANY gun and press fire.

Does this game need "better" missions. Yes. While I wait, I'm more then happy for DE to just make more event missions. At least it passes the time.

New players should face enemies like that on their first missions? That makes perfect sense! If this game is too easy for you, perhaps this is not the game for you.

EDIT: "First MIssion"??? What first mission? You implying they go there unranked? You mean their first "Event MIssion". Yea, because that Event Mission with that new Infested tileset would have been a walk in the park for them.

I Personally don't think you care about new players, and new players can kill everything in that mission no problem, they just have to treat it like they did the starter missions, ie slowly.

Ive just done a solo run with a Rank 25 Mag, only common/uncommon mods, a Paris (by accident), and a Lato Vandal pistol.

The only thing that really slowed me down was lack of Energy, and having to shoot them in the head with a Pistol that had low Impact (15 imp/25 Pun /60 Sla). The fastest I ever killed one of them was 2 shots, when they both went yellow.

You can Pull and Shield polarize through walls and I even pulled a couple through a ceiling up to me THEN stabbed them. I almost got killed once by a grenade that exploded on the OTHER side of the wall I was hiding behind. I just never gave them any decent straight LOS long enough to put a steady stream of blue into me.

Did I have to take it slow? I had a double straight corridor with about 10+ of them in it at once. Of course I have to slow down an bottlenecks like that. I had to use the trick where you walk up to a door until it opens, then walk back instantly to make it close again, if all the targets where frost shielded, and had to use 1 Energy Restore when they would not group up on the other side of a door (I was running Enemy Radar, if wondering).

I'm pointing out that "challenges" just need the right tools. I gimped myself as much as humanly possible and still ran the mission without revives, solo, with Mag and MASSIVE energy issues. If that's doable, I fail to see a team of 4 people having any problems other then some long range shooting and extensive use of cover.

[PeanutMonster]

EDIT: "First MIssion"??? What first mission? You implying they go there unranked?

 

You said ''You just got taste of what mobs should be ALL THE TIME'', in caps as well. ''ALL THE TIME'' includes all the beginner missions as well. I am just repeating what you said. You make absolutely no sense.

Edited August 17, 2014 by PeanutMonster

[Letter13]

Please keep the flamebaiting to a minimum. You're welcome to argue the finer points of events being intentionally tougher than normal missions (sort of the point yeah?), but please keep it civil, respectful and free of personal insults and derailing comments.

 

On Topic: I personally like the fact that the event has enemies that do considerably more damage than their similarly-leveled counterparts. It's much more challenging and can catch you off guard--but in my opinion this is a good thing. It forces players to change up their "run-and-gun" in the thick of it tactics. With a modicum of organization and patience added to their tactics, even new players can get through these missions.

 

Events aren't supposed to be easy. They're supposed to create a challenge for new and old players alike. Instead of whining about how "zomg think of the newbies it's too hard for them!" we should be running the missions and teaming up with low ranked players to show them how to get through them. We shouldn't be running the missions FOR them mind you, but as veteran players we should be showing them the ropes. I think they'll have a lot more fun and feel a larger sense of accomplishment if they manage to complete an extremely tough mission with a spot of help than they would an easy mission where every enemy dies from a single unranked lato shot to the foot. I know I would--there's nothing I enjoy more than managing to beat an exceptionally tough challenge.

[Liacu]

Please keep the flamebaiting to a minimum. You're welcome to argue the finer points of events being intentionally tougher than normal missions (sort of the point yeah?), but please keep it civil, respectful and free of personal insults and derailing comments.

 

On Topic: I personally like the fact that the event has enemies that do considerably more damage than their similarly-leveled counterparts. It's much more challenging and can catch you off guard--but in my opinion this is a good thing. It forces players to change up their "run-and-gun" in the thick of it tactics. With a modicum of organization and patience added to their tactics, even new players can get through these missions.

 

Events aren't supposed to be easy. They're supposed to create a challenge for new and old players alike. Instead of whining about how "zomg think of the newbies it's too hard for them!" we should be running the missions and teaming up with low ranked players to show them how to get through them. We shouldn't be running the missions FOR them mind you, but as veteran players we should be showing them the ropes. I think they'll have a lot more fun and feel a larger sense of accomplishment if they manage to complete an extremely tough mission with a spot of help than they would an easy mission where every enemy dies from a single unranked lato shot to the foot. I know I would--there's nothing I enjoy more than managing to beat an exceptionally tough challenge.

 

The lack of information should be addressed as I'd imagine many players become confused when they suddenly get one shotted, especially since enemy levels are supposed to inform players whether they can do said content or not. Also, although I did enjoy the Suspicious Shipments, this event has made it clear to me that Arctic Eximuses are kind of boring. I usually have to wait out their snow globes since going into close range is suicidal and using powers basically removes ALL difficulty which I was doing my best to avoid.

[DSpite]

You said ''You just got taste of what mobs should be ALL THE TIME'', in caps as well. ''ALL THE TIME'' includes all the beginner missions as well. I am just repeating what you said. You make absolutely no sense.

 

Oh for goodness sake.

 

Mobs should be scaled higher everywhere, so fights are scaled harder everywhere.

 

Beginner level missions will have low level mobs that hit a just a little harder then now, and end level planets will have mobs that hit substantially harder then they do now, to counter the fact that by THAT point we have multi Forma guns and frames.

 

Right now the scaling seems to breaks because of how easy it is to max a frame and gun. Most players will have a Rank 30 set after a few planets. Add to that enough starter Plat for a reactor and a catalyst, and you can easily farm your way up the food chain with little opposition. You get dragged a few times by mates into the void, and in a few Nightmare missions, and you can start min-maxing quite early, and that min-maxing is what breaks some missions.

 

If all the mobs scaled better through the planets then what they do now, they would remain more challenging for everyone, and at the high end planets, they would feel like they do in that mission, where every unit has a dangerous attribute to deal with individually. They can still be fairly easy to kill, but they should hit harder so we just don't run straight through them like they are not even there. We are basically just walking right up to them and shooting them in the face. It does not feel right.

 

I'd rather fight less mobs that hit harder then massive amounts of trash mobs that can only kill use by pure accident.

[Letter13]

The lack of information should be addressed as I'd imagine many players become confused when they suddenly get one shotted, especially since enemy levels are supposed to inform players whether they can do said content or not.

I like to think of players' first encounter with these high damage dealing enemies as a lesson in learning from experience.

 

Hell, I know I learned my lesson. I was confused in the first few seconds when I got floored, but from then onward I practiced some caution and did fine.

[Somedude1000]

I like to think of players' first encounter with these high damage dealing enemies as a lesson in learning from experience.

 

Hell, I know I learned my lesson. I was confused in the first few seconds when I got floored, but from then onward I practiced some caution and did fine.

 

 To be honest, this event is a good thing, ever since suspicious shipments Ive learned to be careful enough to practice caution as much as possible, especially since in space on solo, no one can hear you scream rage

 

Intentionally difficult events are refreshing because they keep us on our tiptoes, and I have a feeling jsut about every event from here will probably have 'uber' enemies

Edited August 17, 2014 by Somedude1000