ash underwhelming? (mained loki beforehand)

[FreshJB2]

Thanks for the feedback guys, Some casting costs have been reduced. I will take a look at how long smoke bomb lasts.

The duration of the smoke bomb still seems a bit short. Could you also increase the radius a bit?

[waimser]

I have to agree with freshjb2, Smoke bomb is too short. At lvl 1 you return to visible before you can even get off a single charge attack. At lvl 3 I have a 30% power duration mod on to make it worth using.

I must admit though I havnt got any good melle attack speed mods yet though so that may well make all the difference. Lvl 1 is way too short and basically useless though.

Edited February 17, 2013 by waimser

[Sealgaire]

It seems like smoke bomb was intended to be more of an escape and repositioning ability rather than one more suited for extended use like Loki's invisibility. Having similar durations would make them too indistinct. Ash's skill set should ideally be balanced against Loki's by his other skills having more straight damage dealing applications, which they theoretically do. Being able to pop smoke bomb to safely close with enemies or change firing positions to snipe suits his theme better, anyway.

[frost19]

Well, I feel like shuriken need a bit more spammable. While the damage is great, the not-so-great aiming usually makes me just spam that thing until I realized my energy is all gone.

And bladestorm. Can it be range based ? Like you just hit enemies that are in some range from your starting position. Or if it still target based, please don't target already dead enemy that are dead after I start the skill ? And make the slash multihit so that close enemy will die in one swoop.

And yeah ofc rework teleport and fix the bladestorm falling through floor. And another thing, add a silhouette or something when using smoke bomb. I know I'm supposed to be invisible but come on.

[Davante]

Switching between Frames can be tramatic no matter what Frame you were using, give it a shot you might be pleasantly surprised.

[FreshJB2]

It seems like smoke bomb was intended to be more of an escape and repositioning ability rather than one more suited for extended use like Loki's invisibility. Having similar durations would make them too indistinct. Ash's skill set should ideally be balanced against Loki's by his other skills having more straight damage dealing applications, which they theoretically do. Being able to pop smoke bomb to safely close with enemies or change firing positions to snipe suits his theme better, anyway.

Fair enough. Why not give it a (longer?) stun duration. Right now, smoke bomb is useless to me. As for teleport, can someone explain to me (very slowly) how to use it (what to target).

[RossRam]

He really needs a buff

[Thelonious]

- Shuriken needs to start its trajectory from the middle of the screen for good aiming, not from the left side. The slight delay could be toned down too, maybe giving it a little projectile speed?

It would be a great skill if it could also go through enemies until it hits a wall/surface.

But easier aiming would be a nice improvement.

- Smoke screen needs a visual effect: the player can deal (barely, it really is a pain) with not being able to see his char model , BUT NOT TEAMATES

"damn, where is this guy's corspe", when you're dead invisible

"who's rezzing me, can't see anyone near me?" when you're rezzing invisible.

"Why are my bullets not hitting this guy?" when you're in melee invisible, and your teamate is shooting behind you.

- Teleport could use a short stun. After all, Ash is squishy. Going melee is risky enough, right now teleporting to an enemy is like giving him a free hit on a silver plater, like a big "PUNCH ME" sign appearing in the middle of your face. Mag has it on Pull, why not Ash?

- Bladestorm is slow, bugged, limited in range and target number. Maybe the worst offensive ulti in the game atm (and by offensive I mean, that deals direct damage). I cry when I use it and kill cameras or storage cans. Most of the time it's just a blur of Ash going through the floor multiple times. But it's fun for like, the 4-5 first times you use it.

I honestly pity the guy in charge of fixing it. Good luck man!

Edited February 18, 2013 by Thelonious

[BlueJackal]

Going from Excal to Ash has been tough. I laughed the first time I threw a shuriken at a Shield Lancer and it just got stuck in his shield. My Excal would have dashed through the Shield Lancer, killing him and whoever else was behind him. Shurikens should definitely go through shields, or at lease do something to those jerks! I haven't had the Ash for too long so my suggestion for the Shuriken may be overkill ;p

What I would like for the shuriken is:

1. I would like the attack to be instant, there is too much of a delay between me activating the ability and when it actually happens.

2. Faster projectile speed, it looks a little silly with how slow it is.

3. Using the Shuriken shouldn't stop my movement. I should be able to run and throw, slide and throw, roll and throw. All in a nice, fluid, ninja-like motion.

4. Multiple Shurikens! Level 1: 1 shuriken, Level 2: 2 shurikens, Level 3: 3 shurikens.

5. Homing Shurikens! The shurikens should home in on any enemies near where you were aiming. Although this could be annoying if not implemented correctly.

The damage would have to be adjusted for this, but I would love them so much more.

Basically, I guess I want them to be more like Batman's Batarangs :)

[Neosage]

Yeah Ash is useless, don't buy him.

-SSoAP-

[Northern_Phantom]

Yeah Ash is useless, don't buy him.

-SSoAP-

I dont really get what you're talking about at level 1 of blade storm ash deals 1000 damage for the price of 100 energy and 2 additional upgrades make it do 3000 damage and if it can crit it likely does $&*&*#(%& amounts of damage but in all realisim ash is amazing for solo run blade stom can clear crowds of 20+ corpus/infested/grineer when they ambush you, not to mention the shuriken can not only head shot but go through multiple targets and pin them to walls. The smoke screen can allow you to ninja revive people like loki or ninja hack terminals or even just escape with your life in huge ambush.

early levels of ash arent exactly the best especially with low energy reserves but if you get to ~200 energy reserves you can blade storm twice and with even a small energy efficiency mod you can just spam your abilities for example I have a 49.9% one and ~250 energy reserves so i can throw like 19 shurikens/teleport like 19 times, smoke screen like 15 times or blade storm like 5 times theres so much clean up available there, theres so much solo-ability there, theres so much win there.

So I dare ask you, Did you even bother using Ash for more than 3 minutes?

[imba_techies]

This thread is pretty concise. Ash doesn't really have a defined role and Loki is much more versatile in terms of stealth. His frame model is still one of the coolest imo.

[FatRefrigerator]

TL;DR.

You gotta lead your targets with those shurikens man.

[Lambda_217]

I don't really have a problem with Ash, apart from the fiddly shurikens. For me, he's a warframe that feels as much in control of the battlefield as Loki, using his speed and invisiblity to keep ahead of enemies and using his combat abilities to resolve a sticky situation.

I'd say while Loki is pure stealth/deception, Ash is Damage/Stealth.

EDIT:

Whoops, forgot to say that teleport placing you behind an enemy would make it way more useful.

Edited February 20, 2013 by Lambda217

[RawGritz]

Why can't I see Ash's Shurikens stuck in enemies?? I can see the bolts from a Boltor or Bolto. It would be super cool and help a bit with targeting if we could see a shuriken embedded in a wall or in the forhead of a Grineer.

Please fix teleport, like so many people have asked. If Ash could appear behind or above an enemy with a .02 seconds of invulnerabilty...that would be great.

OR let Ash's teleport put him in a melee charge attack so when he appears he immediately unleashes his charged melee attack behind an enemy. YES! Teleporting while wall running would be BOSS in this instance.

Is Ash still completely invisible to the player when he uses smoke screen? If so that can be extremely problematic for targeting, espcially with shurikens.

Edited February 20, 2013 by RawGritz

[greenblazes]

Yeah Ash is useless, don't buy him.

I actually have had a TON of fun with Ash; though I wouldn't mind most of the additions/changes listed in this thread. What I would like to see the most is a tweak to the teleport move. If the act of teleporting did not stop you from doing your current movement that would be amazing. It would open up really cool possibilities like charging up a heavy sword slash and teleporting within range RIGHT before you swing through the enemy that, just a second ago, was 40 feet away. Thoughts?

[TinFoilMkIV]

I would say teleport does need a bit of a buff, so far I can think of three ways that would bring it up to par

1. Stun hit, same as smokescreen but applied only to the target that was teleported to

2. teleport behind the target, leaves an (invisible?) decoy for a half second that takes all the agro that was on ash at time of the teleport, or at least drop aggro from him on teleport.

3. as is but does not have a cast animation, or does not interrupt current action while performed.

personally I think 3 would be the coolest, would make it an interesting mobility option with several uses.

As said before, shurikens feel like they need a bit of a rework for the difficulty to land solid hits on non-stationary target for the ammount of effect they have.

An idea I had for smokescreen would be to keep the duration as is but apply the same invisibility buff to any ally within its range at half duration, it makes sense in the theme of the skill and would differentiate it from lokis personal stealth skill. More skills that can support teammates in ways beyond simply killing stuff is a good thing in my opinion.

Also enemy agro while smokescreened seems to need a bit of work. I have yet to notice it in multiplayer, but in solo it seems some enemies can still find me, as some enemies will run around where I am instead of where smokescreen started at, and I have actually been attacked by an ancient disruptor several seconds after being invisible and sprinting halfway across a room and not attacking, and of course it actually hit me and still drained all my shields and energy.

[RawGritz]

I actually have had a TON of fun with Ash; though I wouldn't mind most of the additions/changes listed in this thread. What I would like to see the most is a tweak to the teleport move. If the act of teleporting did not stop you from doing your current movement that would be amazing. It would open up really cool possibilities like charging up a heavy sword slash and teleporting within range RIGHT before you swing through the enemy that, just a second ago, was 40 feet away. Thoughts?

See just above your post ^^

"OR let Ash's teleport put him in a melee charge attack so when he appears he immediately unleashes his charged melee attack behind an enemy. YES! Teleporting while wall running would be BOSS in this instance."

[Sealgaire]

If you time it right, you can already start a charge attack and teleport before it finishes so you swing right as you pop in front of an enemy. It would be nice if this resulted in an automatic critical hit, though.

[vonBoomslang]

imho Ash is ok, just need correct tactics:) Shuriken in good for headshootting enemies without shields. You nust need to use it in correct situation;)

You know what else is good for that?

Every single gun in the game.

[Obstaculo]

IMO

shuriken - almost perfect (need better graphic effect)

smoke screen - perfect

teleport - perfect

blade storm - removed from my skill tree (i dont want a killeverythingbutton skill. want a bealtiful ninja supreme fun skill)

should at least be some complexity, otherwise there is no grace.

[Neosage]

I dont really get what you're talking about at level 1 of blade storm ash deals 1000 damage for the price of 100 energy and 2 additional upgrades make it do 3000 damage and if it can crit it likely does $&*&*#(%& amounts of damage but in all realisim ash is amazing for solo run blade stom can clear crowds of 20+ corpus/infested/grineer when they ambush you, not to mention the shuriken can not only head shot but go through multiple targets and pin them to walls. The smoke screen can allow you to ninja revive people like loki or ninja hack terminals or even just escape with your life in huge ambush.

early levels of ash arent exactly the best especially with low energy reserves but if you get to ~200 energy reserves you can blade storm twice and with even a small energy efficiency mod you can just spam your abilities for example I have a 49.9% one and ~250 energy reserves so i can throw like 19 shurikens/teleport like 19 times, smoke screen like 15 times or blade storm like 5 times theres so much clean up available there, theres so much solo-ability there, theres so much win there.

So I dare ask you, Did you even bother using Ash for more than 3 minutes?

It was a joke, ssoap stands for secrety society of ash players, it's a reference to the ssotp. I main Ash, and he's @(*()$ powerful.

[Neosage]

I actually have had a TON of fun with Ash; though I wouldn't mind most of the additions/changes listed in this thread. What I would like to see the most is a tweak to the teleport move. If the act of teleporting did not stop you from doing your current movement that would be amazing. It would open up really cool possibilities like charging up a heavy sword slash and teleporting within range RIGHT before you swing through the enemy that, just a second ago, was 40 feet away. Thoughts?

That sounds badass, but at the moment I tend to teleport, and then just go invis for tons of damage.

[RawGritz]

Ok. I just used Bladestorm for the first time. Ugh! As soon as I tried it, my character went through the floor like many have complained about. And then it just put me back in the middle of all the enemies. Not a single one was killed by the Bladestorm. I was completely bummed.

Please fix!

[greenblazes]

Happens normally just when you are on the ground floor. Also it seems to consistently terminate the Bladestorm process whenever you phase through the ground (might be because the algorithm that plans the next attack can't find a target in the nether-space? ). Who knows. I try to only use it when I am on a 2nd story and it seems to work better that way.