ash underwhelming? (mained loki beforehand)

[RawGritz]

Happens normally just when you are on the ground floor. Also it seems to consistently terminate the Bladestorm process whenever you phase through the ground (might be because the algorithm that plans the next attack can't find a target in the nether-space? ). Who knows. I try to only use it when I am on a 2nd story and it seems to work better that way.

Thanks. I hope they address that soon.

[TheDudeMachine]

I started Ash yesterday; currently at level 25. I echo all the suggestions made in this thread. Ash isn't a bad frame by any means, and generally I only have 3 complaints so far:

1) Shuriken isn't accurate. The only time I bother for headshots is on elites or bosses. If I take the time to aim for the head, I should get the headshot, especially when I'm having to stop and tank damage from 5 other enemies while I throw it.

2) Smoke bomb at the first level is pretty useless for groups. I only used it for bosses for a quick charge melee hit. This doesn't matter much anymore, since I'm at level 3 smoke bomb, but the first level is about as useful as Excalibur's jump at level 1.

3) Teleport ends up with you tanking too much damage before you make the hit. This is partly due to AI being too accurate, but teleporting behind the enemy, as has been suggested, will fix this.

[Flamed]

I only got a 3 complaints with Ash.

1. His Shuriken could be little bit faster.

2. The startup animation for his smokebomb should be faster.

3. His teleport should teleport him behind an enemy.

4. His teleport keeps teleporting me near the ceiling or under the ground while killing the mobs.

[TheDudeMachine]

I feel as though charged melee attacks during smoke bomb do not do crit damage. The color is yellow or red, but the damage feels the same on elites/bosses. Is this correct?

[akamikeb]

How strong does shuriken get at max rank?

On Xini ancients a max level shuriken does 500/1000 damage to the body/head. Missing a headshot is painful, especially when missing the target completely is so easy.

[Torguish]

imho Ash is ok, just need correct tactics:) Shuriken in good for headshootting enemies without shields. You nust need to use it in correct situation;)

How can you say that when a 25 energy skill on excalibur can wreck 30+ enemies in under a second. Also Ash's ulti kills max 12 enemies, while Volt or Mag DESTROYS 20 - 30+ enemies.

Not to mention Shuriken does NOT have a 100% straight line of fire. It differs sometimes so accuracy on that skill alone sucks bad.

I also think Ash needs some buffing.

1: Shuriken buff

- Quicker flight

- Better accuracy

- More damage

- No pinning to walls! It's annoying sometimes.

- Penetration/Bounce/Multiple Projectiles (Eg. Pick first: 1 500 damage shuriken / Boost once; 2 shurikens / Boost 3 times; 3 shurikens etc.

- Larger radius

- No stopping for casting, so you can run around and spam that Shuriken and be all ninja.

- Smaller energy cost (Only if no changes to the skill itself is not added)

2: Smoke Cloud buff

- Nothing really, this is cool.

- Maybe a small increase to the invisibility duration.

3: Teleport

- No animation. This means when i charge an attack and cast teleport, it finishes my charged strike and does not interrupt it.

- Smaller energy cost.

4: Ulti buff

- Animation needs work. A lot.

- Mechanic needs work. A lot. I mean, sometimes i strike only like 5 enemies.

- Max targets increase.

- Speed in this skill.

I dunno, i think these are the things this class needs. I like to play him tho.

Edited February 22, 2013 by Torguish

[RawGritz]

Ash does need some work. But he is a great WarFrame.

Shurikens should get a speed buff, better timed animation and an increase in the accuracy consistency.

The Bladestorm I think, needs the most work. I really expected a super cool animation for the Bladestorm. But right now it's like a bunch of poorly edited cut scenes. I was expecting something like a series of his Smoke Screens chained together. Something you might see from Nightcrawler of the X-Men. I would also add variations to the different strikes, where Ash could appear above, behind or in front of an enemy and strike accordingly--going through his various strike animations or something original for Bladestorm.

So it would happen like this...

Ash disappears in a puff of smoke or flash of light. Then he reapears in a puff of smoke or flash of light and strikes.

The camera angle for the Bladestorm also does not help to give the ability any real visual appeal. I suggest maybe pulling the camera back and unpin it from 3rd person for more of a spectator effect. Or have the camera pan to show each enemy before Ash appears. So we can see him appear then strike, then disappear...rinse and repeat until all are "taken down"

But even after today's update Ash will still pass through the floor and kill the whole ability dead in its tracks.

Edited February 22, 2013 by RawGritz

[--Sensei--]

How can you say that when a 25 energy skill on excalibur can wreck 30+ enemies in under a second. Also Ash's ulti kills max 12 enemies, while Volt or Mag DESTROYS 20 - 30+ enemies.

Not to mention Shuriken does NOT have a 100% straight line of fire. It differs sometimes so accuracy on that skill alone sucks bad.

I also think Ash needs some buffing.

1: Shuriken buff

- Quicker flight

- Better accuracy

- More damage

- No pinning to walls! It's annoying sometimes.

- Penetration/Bounce/Multiple Projectiles (Eg. Pick first: 1 500 damage shuriken / Boost once; 2 shurikens / Boost 3 times; 3 shurikens etc.

- Larger radius

- No stopping for casting, so you can run around and spam that Shuriken and be all ninja.

- Smaller energy cost (Only if no changes to the skill itself is not added)

2: Smoke Cloud buff

- Nothing really, this is cool.

- Maybe a small increase to the invisibility duration.

3: Teleport

- No animation. This means when i charge an attack and cast teleport, it finishes my charged strike and does not interrupt it.

- Smaller energy cost.

4: Ulti buff

- Animation needs work. A lot.

- Mechanic needs work. A lot. I mean, sometimes i strike only like 5 enemies.

- Max targets increase.

- Speed in this skill.

I dunno, i think these are the things this class needs. I like to play him tho.

what? that almost NEVER happens unless your either

A. Playing solo (and even then you need to mob them up/line them up with manual manipulation i:e luring)

or

B.Same as A but its never going to happen in teamplay becuz well... teamplay, the mobs aren't going to line themselves up and go, "oh hey! lets line up and let the excal dash through us!"

and even then.... IT DOESN'T KILL 30+ enemies lmfao, also last I heard, excal's dash doesn't go through enemies anymore and get stopped by armored enemies or something.

Dat overestimation of Excal.

Edited February 23, 2013 by BushidoCode

[DetergentPod]

For all of you saying Shuriken is weak or Ash is useless. He really isn't.

First off Shuriken.

It can 1 shot any mobs other than Heavy Grineer. Not only that if there another mob behind it, it will also get hit. I tested this on Infested since there swarm of them. It does 1 shot Ancients and Toxic guy. You just have to aim for the head which isn't that hard when they're charging at you. Smoke Grenade is very useful when you need some room to breath. Teleport only use for me so far is when I'm rushing to the exit after killing off a boss.

Blade Storm's only problem is not being able to kill as many target as it states majority of the time. There are times though when it does a perfect job of wiping the entire room out. Other time it kills 4 - 5 while leaving like 10 others alive near you. It should be fixed so that even if you use it on 2 - 3 guys if more guys move into the range of the ultimate while it's still in effect, they'll have to get sliced as well.

[Zonzai]

My opinion...

Shuriken - hits pretty hard but aim is often off

Smoke Screen - great when surrounded but stealth is way too short

Teleport - this should be his 50 point ability and smoke screen should be his 75 point ability (with buffs)

Bladestorm - really cool concept, it just doesn't work out

[Vaskadar]

Teleport should be a 10 point ability that will go precisely where you aim it instead of having to target someone. Honestly would be a lot more useful that way.

Shuriken should be much faster, about 50% wider, and not aim sideways when you're looking at an enemy who happens to be strafing. It shouldn't have any aim assist whatsoever. Hell, shuriken should look and spin like one.

Edited February 23, 2013 by Vaskadar

[Torguish]

what? that almost NEVER happens unless your either

A. Playing solo (and even then you need to mob them up/line them up with manual manipulation i:e luring)

or

B.Same as A but its never going to happen in teamplay becuz well... teamplay, the mobs aren't going to line themselves up and go, "oh hey! lets line up and let the excal dash through us!"

and even then.... IT DOESN'T KILL 30+ enemies lmfao, also last I heard, excal's dash doesn't go through enemies anymore and get stopped by armored enemies or something.

Dat overestimation of Excal.

I just did Xini, oh yeah, they kill a lot more & they are a lot more useful in these kind of situation than Ash. Still, when comparing skills from Ash to any other, ash is underwhelming.

Also i want talking about only going THROUGH.

I mean, neither does Ash's shuriken go through enemies. Excal's dash is about 250% wider than that shuriken making it 250% more lethal. Also it goes through a lot more easily than Shuriken so your point is invalid.

Also if you read correctly i said: CAN wreck. The situation has to be ideal and you can use the dash multiple times in a row, causing you wreck that 30 enemies. Don't take everything too seriously.

My point was this in that particular point: Excalibur would destroy Ash in both damage and most kills easily.

Edited February 23, 2013 by Torguish

[TheNYSlice]

awwww whine all you want but atleast try out how I play Ash;

*. Shuriken does 500 damage to ancients without mod buffs, but with 2 +48% power strength mods,

it starts to dish out 1000 dmg per shot - which is enough to 2 shot kill disturber at the expense of under 50 energy.

(that's without efficiency mods, so imagine how OP this NUKE skill really is. at lvl 30, Ash should have about 200 or so

mana pool to spam 8+ shots at the same time. and since the energy cost is so cheap, you dont have to worry about

getting energy drained by disturbers or collecting orbs constantly).

*. Smoke Screen maybe little disappointing if you're looking into 'stealth' play but it is great panic button, I think.

alongside teleport, you can quickly get in and out of the hotspot when the fight gets too intense. Plus,

it's great movement option when you're trying to rush out of defense mission when all the rounds are over.

(*whoosh* *whoosh* *whoosh* just tag along behind that running ember's &#! and you're already at the extraction point!)

*. For Bladestorm, all I can say is we all know Ash doesnt have mass AOE like other frame's ults, but so what?

After Devs patched it to limit the kills on the bladestorm, it only kills handful but you know you can kill more than

dozen in a 5 seconds if you're skilled player anyway. But after the patch, bladestorm now have invulnerability status

so you can use it as panic button.

So to recap, Ash has built in Anti-Heavy Nuke for 1st ability to spam, and 3 other movement / escape options to

disengage if the combat goes too hot at times. Either mod up with bunch of +75% melee dmg mods to become

a sword master, or grab couple mana capacity mods to be a magic user,

or put in bunch of +25% run spd mods to become free running gunslinger, or simply invest in HP mods to help survivability,

it's your choice.

I think that Ash's real strength here is you can be ever so care free about Energy or DYING, cuz you don't have to

worry about anything - definitely keep you interested in playing no matter how late game user you are.

PS. For devout farmers of Xini, you wont have to worry about collecting mods from all over the map from massive

AOE skills if you play ASH. Plus, does kill count really matter when everyone in your team gets same number of

mod drops to pick up? but ASH offers solid Anti-Armor options to pick off ancients that AOE skills couldn't finish off.

So if you're looking into Tank/Dealer or Aggro role, Ash is definitely a cool frame to consider.

Edited February 23, 2013 by TheNYSlice

[Bennyworld]

Well, you just have to get used to him a bit. As for his abilities, I get what you are saying, he does need some serious buffing. However, an upgraded shuriken ability is good for ancients, and other higher health enemies. I mainly use this while I'm reloading normal weapons. E.G, say, that I was firing at an oncoming horde of runners with my Vandal. I Killed them all, but used ap a clip. At the same time, a toxic ancient was running towards me. Not having enough time to reload, it is extremely useful to loose a shuriken or two.

I am having trouble with smokescreen also - this needs a serious rethink.

Teleport is OK for hit and run tactics with melee. If used correctly, it can work wonders on bosses. As for the ulti, this is still bugged and over-nerfed, so, I only use it in worst case scenarios.

This does not stop it from being my favourite frame though - its speed and stamina capabilities are unequalled.

Persevere with Ash and DE, and I'm sure you will begin to enjoy playing ash as much as loki.

Bennyworld

[ThereIsNoLand]

Did anybody else expect a huge RasenShruiken when they got Ash but instead got a tiny dart? Pretty damn disappointed in him.

[--Sensei--]

I just did Xini, oh yeah, they kill a lot more & they are a lot more useful in these kind of situation than Ash. Still, when comparing skills from Ash to any other, ash is underwhelming.

Also i want talking about only going THROUGH.

I mean, neither does Ash's shuriken go through enemies. Excal's dash is about 250% wider than that shuriken making it 250% more lethal. Also it goes through a lot more easily than Shuriken so your point is invalid.

Also if you read correctly i said: CAN wreck. The situation has to be ideal and you can use the dash multiple times in a row, causing you wreck that 30 enemies. Don't take everything too seriously.

My point was this in that particular point: Excalibur would destroy Ash in both damage and most kills easily.

I lol'd "my point is invalid"

Shuriken has piercing effects, it goes through multiple mobs,

loling so hard he doesn't know this,

[RawGritz]

Did anybody else expect a huge RasenShruiken when they got Ash but instead got a tiny dart? Pretty damn disappointed in him.

Yup. Looks more like a minature Kunai. If they want to make it a Kunai, great. But it still should be bigger and more accurate. I ahve only thrown a couple in this new patch. So we will see.

[Keeshhound]

If we're tossing ideas out at random, I'd like to see the shuriken bounce from enemy to enemy while stunning them. It'd be nice to feed the grineer a fistfull of their own medicine as revenge for those damn rollers.

Edited March 4, 2013 by Keeshhound

[Zevkk]

It would be pretty cool if they made the shuriken larger and wider; it could have some cool space samurai visual effects. Honestly, I'd just be happy with it having a wider radius, less picky targetting, and being able to puncture through enemies. The damage and power cost is fine as it is.

Bladestorm is underwhelming. Partially because the targets it jumps to can be slain before you reach them, making you waste a jump, and partially because, for the maximum damage, it takes a long time to activate. Also it jumps to inactive turrets and cameras if you're playing on a Corpus map.

Smoke screen is pretty "meh." I usually only use it when I know there's going to be a bunch of mobs at the top or bottom of the elevator I'm riding.

Teleport's far too expensive in cost to even bother wtih. I wouldn't mind teleport being reworked entirely or being replaced with a different ability.