Overzealous Nerfing

[Gryffinhart]

Christ... 

[Zyion]

@zyion Most early access games charge you for playing them (you have to buy them as if they were a finished product) and some of them even go as high as 25 and maybe even 30 dollars. That doesn't mean it isn't early access to an unfinished game anyways.

 

Yeah, I generally avoid those types of games. And I generally tell anyone I know to avoid them as well as they are effectively making someone pay money to beta test their product with no guarantee that the game will ever be finished. Warframe is one of the few that has done their soft launch right as they actually let you play the game in its entirety before asking if you want to support the game development.

 

True people shouldn't spam the "It's a beta deal with it" excuse put DE did make a post that the game was prone to changes and that while you would have access to the market you would still be doing so at you own risk.

 

That's all I really care about. I just don't want to see people using the beta excuse to shrug off people's opinions. If someone feels that DE did something wrong, I want to hear that opinion as it could potentially improve the game. And while purchasing something on the Warframe Market is at your own risk, I would expect DE to make amends wherever possible if an update or decision ends up cheating someone out of their purchase.

[Davoodoo]

I don't know about the rest of you but I'm getting really tired of wasting time, platinum and forma upgrading frames and weapons only to find them nerfed in subsequent updates! The latest example being the 3 days and 4 forma I spent upgrading the Angstrum only to find out today that in update 14.2 it along with the ogris and the penta will get MAJOR max ammo capacity nerfs.Warframe has been one of the best games I have ever played, and thats saying something because I've been gaming since the early 80's, but now with this latest assult on my time and effort I'm just glad that Destiny will be out soon. Thanks for ruining Warframe for those who enjoyed the most you overzealous devs!!!! 

Why did you think that you wasted money?? because something got nerfed?? why got it nerfed?? because it was too powerful maybe?? and you leveled it because it was too powerful?? i could bet my 3 days and 4 forma on that.

 

Launchers had no problems with ammo, now they got some, is ammo too low?? i havent found it too low personally.

Edited August 19, 2014 by Davoodoo

[(PSN)Krobar1976]

You guys are missing the REAL point here which is that this max ammo nerf is just the latest in a long line of nerfs caused by people who apparently have nothing better to do than nitpick at a fantastic game. Think about it, if you don't like a particular weapon or warframe just don't use it, but there is no need to ruin it for the people who do like it. Trinity was one of my favorite frames but guess what...People complained that she was too powerful so they nerfed her too and now she's just a marshmallow with a nice behind! The devs could put their time to better use fixing bugs and adding new content instead or nerfing things because of people whinning about their kills being taken by OP weapons. This is the first time I've ever used the forum because I love this game and I respect the skill and expertise of the devs who worked so hard to create it and who continue to work to make it better. I would never disrespect them by complaining that they didn't make something properly in the first place because its their creation and I for one am very glad to be given the opportunity to play their creation. Those who fuss about OP weapons and frames surely can't make the same claim.

[vaugahn]

You guys are missing the REAL point here which is that this max ammo nerf is just the latest in a long line of nerfs caused by people who apparently have nothing better to do than nitpick at a fantastic game. 

 

No. That's not why things get nerfed. Try again.

[grillv20]

I don't know about the rest of you but I'm getting really tired of wasting time, platinum and forma upgrading frames and weapons only to find them nerfed in subsequent updates! The latest example being the 3 days and 4 forma I spent upgrading the Angstrum only to find out today that in update 14.2 it along with the ogris and the penta will get MAJOR max ammo capacity nerfs.Warframe has been one of the best games I have ever played, and thats saying something because I've been gaming since the early 80's, but now with this latest assult on my time and effort I'm just glad that Destiny will be out soon. Thanks for ruining Warframe for those who enjoyed the most you overzealous devs!!!! 

 

Is this your first time playing an online game?

[Davoodoo]

You guys are missing the REAL point here which is that this max ammo nerf is just the latest in a long line of nerfs caused by people who apparently have nothing better to do than nitpick at a fantastic game. Think about it, if you don't like a particular weapon or warframe just don't use it, but there is no need to ruin it for the people who do like it. Trinity was one of my favorite frames but guess what...People complained that she was too powerful so they nerfed her too and now she's just a marshmallow with a nice behind! The devs could put their time to better use fixing bugs and adding new content instead or nerfing things because of people whinning about their kills being taken by OP weapons. This is the first time I've ever used the forum because I love this game and I respect the skill and expertise of the devs who worked so hard to create it and who continue to work to make it better. I would never disrespect them by complaining that they didn't make something properly in the first place because its their creation and I for one am very glad to be given the opportunity to play their creation. Those who fuss about OP weapons and frames surely can't make the same claim.

No you are missing the real point here.

 

No one is nerfing something because they dont like it, such thing simply doesnt happen.

What de nerfed so far was only most obviously op stuff that was breaking not only challenge but even difficulty itself.

 

Its a coop game with random matchmaking, so everytime someone in your mission uses that stuff(which happens alot because its clearly too strong) it actually affects you, not using it isnt solution, to stop that problem you need to go into solo or with premade team which agrees to not use it, meaning that many of its coop aspects wont exist.

 

I find balancing and nerfs important part of fixing this game, challenge, endgame wont exist without these things being done 1st not to mention that progression would be ruined and difficulty be broken.

[(PSN)Krobar1976]

No you are missing the real point here.

 

No one is nerfing something because they dont like it, such thing simply doesnt happen.

What de nerfed so far was only most obviously op stuff that was breaking not only challenge but even difficulty itself.

 

Its a coop game with random matchmaking, so everytime someone in your mission uses that stuff(which happens alot because its clearly too strong) it actually affects you, not using it isnt solution, to stop that problem you need to go into solo or with premade team which agrees to not use it, meaning that many of its coop aspects wont exist.

 

I find balancing and nerfs important part of fixing this game, challenge, endgame wont exist without these things being done 1st not to mention that progression would be ruined and difficulty be broken.

Progression and difficulty are already messed up and lopsided due to the availability of prime frames and weapons at rediculous prices on the trade tab negating the need for everyone to farm them equally. If no one complained then almost nothing would have gotten nerfed, thats the primary reason such things happen. The game has a solo mode so that people who don't want to be around other people and their weapon choices don't have to be.Look I don't like the explosive weapons either but I would 10 times rather see the devs spending all their time fixing bugs and creating new content than see them using it to nerf things. They seem to be rushing to satisfy  the complainers instead of getting the maximum amout of forward progress done. Dropping the Angstrums max ammo by over 90 percent makes t it look like the devs didn't know what they were doing in the first place. Which judging but the overall quality of Warframe is something that I refuse to believe. Yes 210 rockets is an extremely high number but reducing  it to 20 rounds isn't balancing it's nerfing to make people stop whinning.

[Synthua]

Fanboys that rallied behind developers and supported every stupid change destroyed Firefall. The game is a shadow of what it was and not even close to what it could have been because the devs listened to the bootlickers and squashed all posts that disliked their actions.

 

Stop sucking up and arguing against feedback on the feedback forum or the same will happen to Warframe.

[Semshol]

I don't know about the rest of you but I'm getting really tired of wasting time, platinum and forma upgrading frames and weapons only to find them nerfed in subsequent updates! The latest example being the 3 days and 4 forma I spent upgrading the Angstrum only to find out today that in update 14.2 it along with the ogris and the penta will get MAJOR max ammo capacity nerfs.Warframe has been one of the best games I have ever played, and thats saying something because I've been gaming since the early 80's, but now with this latest assult on my time and effort I'm just glad that Destiny will be out soon. Thanks for ruining Warframe for those who enjoyed the most you overzealous devs!!!! 

 

Oh god, why are players so extreme.

 

Here is the solution:

 

- Latron Prime exists.

- You can use it as a Primary weapon

- Primary weapons exists

- When your angstrum runs out of ammo, use the 4 forma'd latron prime until you pick up 3 sniper ammo drops.

- Rinse and repeat.

 

By the way it's 30 ammo. It has 30 ammo :)

Edited August 20, 2014 by Semshol

[(PSN)Krobar1976]

Fanboys that rallied behind developers and supported every stupid change destroyed Firefall. The game is a shadow of what it was and not even close to what it could have been because the devs listened to the bootlickers and squashed all posts that disliked their actions.

 

Stop sucking up and arguing against feedback on the feedback forum or the same will happen to Warframe.

It already has! Try reading the whole topic.Whinners get thing nerfed. I support the devs in their origional creation,not in the nerfs made to passify the whinners.

[(PSN)Krobar1976]

Oh god, why are players so extreme.

 

Here is the solution:

 

- Latron Prime exists.

- You can use it as a Primary weapon

- Primary weapons exists

- When your angstrum runs out of ammo, use the 4 forma'd latron prime until you pick up 3 sniper ammo drops.

- Rinse and repeat.

 

By the way it's 30 ammo. It has 30 ammo :)

Ogris and penta (primary weapons)also nerfed,but thats not the point.The point is Warframe was a fantastic game until people complained about things that didn't suit them instead of appreciating the game for what was, so the devs nerfed weapons and warframes to passify the nay sayers and in so doing have diminished its greatness. Now its just another shooter.

[vaugahn]

Ogris and penta (primary weapons)also nerfed,but thats not the point.The point is Warframe was a fantastic game until people complained about things that didn't suit them instead of appreciating the game for what was, so the devs nerfed weapons and warframes to passify the nay sayers and in so doing have diminished its greatness. Now its just another shooter.

 

I'm not sure which part is worse; the fact that you think this was done to "passify" people or the fact that you think not having 540 rockets has turned this game average.

[(PSN)Krobar1976]

I'm not sure which part is worse; the fact that you think this was done to "passify" people or the fact that you think not having 540 rockets has turned this game average.

Actually its 210 rockets,and I agree thats too many.However,a nearly 90 percent reduction and change to rarest ammo drop type is extreme overkill,and yes it is an attenpt at passification.Or are we to believe that the devs had no idea what they were doing in the first place?

[Davoodoo]

Progression and difficulty are already messed up and lopsided due to the availability of prime frames and weapons at rediculous prices on the trade tab negating the need for everyone to farm them equally. If no one complained then almost nothing would have gotten nerfed, thats the primary reason such things happen. The game has a solo mode so that people who don't want to be around other people and their weapon choices don't have to be.Look I don't like the explosive weapons either but I would 10 times rather see the devs spending all their time fixing bugs and creating new content than see them using it to nerf things. They seem to be rushing to satisfy  the complainers instead of getting the maximum amout of forward progress done. Dropping the Angstrums max ammo by over 90 percent makes t it look like the devs didn't know what they were doing in the first place. Which judging but the overall quality of Warframe is something that I refuse to believe. Yes 210 rockets is an extremely high number but reducing  it to 20 rounds isn't balancing it's nerfing to make people stop whinning.

Progression and difficulty arent mssed by prime weapons being available for premium(in fact everything in game is) but rather mods, also equal farm, funny when you consider that its purely luck based, but this discussion is about nerfs.

 

Devs made mistake when they put launchers with 540 spare ammo, idk how they could have gotten to conclusion that this is fair amount of ammo to strong aoe weapon, cause clearly its too much, even 100ammo would let you clear waves without any need to come down to get more, not to mention that quick reload time which is faster than most pistols. All that community did was pointing out that lack of common sense in their design.

 

Coop game where you are forced into solo isnt a coop anymore.

 

I would like devs to spend time balancing game, fixing bugs and improving flawed mechanics.

The game has tons of latter, not even 1 "2.0" is finished.

 

If they were indeed "rushing to satisfy complainers" we would get endgame and balance long time ago. They are instead making new content and features and try to carry game upon hypetrain so get your facts straight.

 

Dropping launcher ammo by 90% was needed and infact pointed out that devs didnt know what they were doing in 1st place. Overall quality of game is very low, looks great but thats it. 66/100 on metacritic but none of these reviewers played game for long enough to understand real problems this game faces.

 

Actually you know what ppl proposed numbers like 100 for angstrum, 50 for ogris and penta, reason why de did it lower is not because wanted it that way but because they decided it would be better.

 

If de does nerf something that didnt need nerf i would be 1st one to complain, like they did with lato, but all recent nerfs were justified and needed.

[Naftal]

Fanboys that rallied behind developers and supported every stupid change destroyed Firefall. The game is a shadow of what it was and not even close to what it could have been because the devs listened to the bootlickers and squashed all posts that disliked their actions.

 

Stop sucking up and arguing against feedback on the feedback forum or the same will happen to Warframe.

This is arguing about balances though. The fanboys crying about nerfs every time something is balanced need to stfu.

[EdgeKasim]

so far ive only seen 1 smart person, several idiots and a bunch who are right about things but still dont quite fully get it in this thread.

 

the ammo REBALENCE was not a nerf as it didnt affect the base stats of the weapons, it just made them more "realistic" in terms of ammo capacity.

 

yes i can understand that if youve spent forma and potatoes on things youd generally be upset when they get changed in some way, but have you actually taken a decent look at them again after the rebalncing or are you just complaining after seeing the numbers?  i thought my penta would be useless now as sniper ammo rarely drops and its ammo cap seems a bit low for those sticky situations, same for my castanas, i thought they might have become a useless waste of a forma to build them, but you know what? i found the only times ive had trouble with the ammo with any of these weps is when i play solo..in a team i dont even need to switch weps, heck i dont even need to perch myself in the hard to reach places either.

 

that being said some of you need to realise that some of the NERFS are made to satisy the whinyer ePeen measuring sectons of the community...not all...but some while others are made to bring things in line with other gear so that not everybody becmes a rhino prime running arround with a boltor prime refusing to party with anyone not part of the club..............

[Ralthor]

This is arguing about balances though. The fanboys crying about nerfs every time something is balanced need to stfu.

 

By definition, someone complaining can hardly be called a fanboi? 

[Naftal]

By definition, someone complaining can hardly be called a fanboi? 

Fanboi of a thing.

 

Thing gets rebalanced.

 

Fanboi cries because thing is now "nerfed".

[Viverim]

the ammo REBALENCE was not a nerf

 

Actually it is a nerf.  A nerf is any reduction in the effect/ability of a weapon/warframe/feature.  A massive reduction in ammo a weapon has is, by definition, a reduction in it's ability.  Agree or disagree with the end effect of that reduction, it is still a nerf.  Some nerfs are required for balance.  Others reduce a weapon to the level of impotence.  Personally I think that DE(L) "re-balanced" the explosive weapons too far.  A Primary weapon should be Primary.  The Primary weapon you are using.  If they wanted to nerf these weapons into extinction then they also should have made them Secondary weapons, thus implying that you should only be using them a back-up/highly situational weapons.

 

Would still mean that they now suck, but at least it would be truth in advertising.

[RexRgisIocus]

How does it feel to actually need to come down from the birds nest in ODD and DS Defense? IMO the people who decided to start camping up there are the reason launchers got nerfed(fixed).

[Viverim]

How does it feel to actually need to come down from the birds nest in ODD and DS Defense? IMO the people who decided to start camping up there are the reason launchers got nerfed(fixed).

No doubt you are correct.  However this kills those weapons for those of us who Didn't use them in this manner too.  The Penta, for me, was the weapon I could rely upon to finish missions that were giving me too much trouble.  Now, it might as well not exist as it is pointless to carry it along.  As far as I am aware (and I will look it up later) the Penta was still using rifle ammo, but if they did, indeed change it to Sniper as well as nerfing its ammo capacity into extinction, then it serves no purpose in the game at all.

 

Yes, people will disagree with me.  That's their right.  This is, however, my own opinion, and I am as entitled to it as they are to theirs.

[RexRgisIocus]

@Viverim If penta now works like Miter and Attica, it still uses rifle ammo packs but when picked up they say sniper ammo +whatever amount you picked up which would mean 25 ammo max counting the ones on the magazine (or is it 20 ammo cap counting the mag? I don't use launchers) is enough to use the penta as people used it before. Each pack would give you 10 ammo back and rifle ammo packs are common as sheet.

[Synthua]

This is arguing about balances though. The fanboys crying about nerfs every time something is balanced need to stfu.

 

You, uh, misunderstood something there. My post was aimed at the "the devs can do no wrong" crowd that invades every single thread on this subforum.

Edited August 20, 2014 by Synthua

[cesmode]

While reducing the ammo max to 20 might have been a bit much, some change was needed.  You never ran out of ammo with penta or ogris.  Ever.  But I think you can run out pretty quickly now.  I know the ammo is scaling to be equal with regular rifles, but eh...I think they need to bump it up to maybe 35 or so.  20 is a bit much.

 

And this is definitely not something to quit over.  If you quit over this, then you really dont like the game. I have my penta forma'd 4 times, and I'll need a fifth (at least) if I want to put any more points into heavy cal.  I have vested interest in this too.