Warframes Are Slow (According To Science)

[fatpig84]

DE can't fix speed without severe warping.

Or they have to make much bigger maps.

[Feallike]

First, a round of applause to everyone who has contributed to this thread ... it has made for some very stimulating reading

 

Secondly, it would be useful to consider some facts about sprinting:

1. Acceleration is the most important factor in "how fast" you go

2. The peak linear (forward direction) acceleration of a human being on Earth is around 12 m/s2 (one "Gee" is 9.8 m/s) - this is due to the physics of friction of the foot with the running surface and the planet's gravitation

3. Maximal acceleration is affected by the height of the runner and the angle which the body leans FORWARD while running

4. Sustained acceleration - constantly increasing speed - is superior to a brief burst of acceleration followed by no further acceleration (at least if the maximal accelerations are within a factor of 2-4)

5. The motion of sprinting is like a series of low hops ... like a ball bouncing forward in a parabolic trajectory

6. The "Swing Time" is a constant for ALL runners - it is the time spent with the foot in the air (remember hopping) - roughly 0.35 s

7. Top speed is determined by the distance traveled in the period of a "swing time" which is related to how high the body's center of mass rises with each step and the stride length (again height enters but with leg length)

 

Thirdly, a real world example:

Usain Bolt - currently the world record holder of the 100 m dash, is capable of peak acceleration of 0.97 g and a forward speed of 12.2 m/s and capable of an output of 2.6 kW

His 1.96 m, 94 kg frame allows him to take 42 steps over the 100 m compared to all of his competitors of 47 steps

 

Fourth, an in game example:

Assuming that the Tenno Scanner measures distance in SI units (true meters), then maxed Loki AVERAGE sprint speed is about 9.5 m/s, which puts him on par with Bolt ...

 

Fifth, a hypothesis:

I believe what is MISSING in the Warframe game mechanics is not so much PEAK SPEED but rather early ACCELERATION (excluding Rhino's Charge)

 

What I think that SOME gamers intuitively feel as "slowness" is in actuality SLUGGISHNESS

 

Lastly, a proposal:

Therefore, it would not be difficult to change the BURST acceleration factor without having to change the PEAK speed to satisfy those who want a more robust feel while at the same time keep those who like the game as it is still happy ...

 

A good read as always 1011

 

I agree, i don't think where super slow, but acceleration makes us feel like you said sluggish, if the DE put in acceleration then it would probably fix the problem.

 

Well, let's put it in this perspective, volt basically negates the slow/sluggish feel, but then people complain/love his speed because you are going so fast. Of course it seems like you can't really control your own character because for some reason it feels like we are running faster than the speed of Kickbot and turning your character feels like you are trying to turn a shopping cart in wal-mart while they have a bunch of crap in the middle of the lanes that just feels too frustrating to deal with and even trying to jump over it like Mario would be a problem because you can only slightly turn your character's direction in mid-air if it were that speed. So I say, keep it the way it is, if I wanted to play a Sonic Game, I rather play that, even though I practically called Volt a sonic, I rather keep him that way because he can only sonic for a few seconds >:I

 

Now to be foreal about it, a game is about illusion and the devs are the illusionist. When you make a game you have to put in perspective of illusion that these characters are moving at normal human speed. Of course making a description in-game that your speed is literally slower than man in real life, ok that would be an error on the dev's part. Telling the devs to actually change it to real life human speed, that is overhauling the game's scripts, animations, and also redoing the tilesets entirely to fit this real life speed, practically causing a halt in production to "fix" something that really shouldn't be touched. It is weird that we do run slower than a human if you put these statistics, but really, I rather keep it the way it is.

 

Ok i am not demanding them to overhaul the speed system. o.o

 

They could easily just decrease how big meters are in this game, waypoints are the only way we can truely measure meters, so if they just tweeked the codex entry, and decrease the size of meters according to the waypoint. Then the calculation would be correct.

 

Though i think a nicer way to fix the problem is like people are saying, put acceleration in the game. The reason we feel so slow is because where going to top speed immediately when running, so we don't feel like where going any faster the more we run. 

 

If the DE put acceleration in the game, even if it was just a slight increase, that would make all the difference in feel. 

 

DE can't fix speed without severe warping.

Or they have to make much bigger maps.

 

They can decrease the size of the meters in the measurement, if they cut meters in half then we wouldn't have any change in speed or size of the map, but the calculations would suggest that we are going extremely fast.

[STRATA-Vathar]

Don't forget to factor in the range of weapons in your system. If we have to compare to the range of actual firearms, the effective range of Tenno weaponry is a joke, plus, the fact that if you increase the Tenno's speed and you have to rebalance the effective range of weapons or risk having short range weapons OP.

 

OR

 

You can accept the current feel of the game, consider that it matters more than the actual range on the objective indicator and the codex, forget that discussing realistic speeds when we routinely visit planets and ships that all have the same gravity, kill enemies using ragdoll effects that would make physicists cringe and play the game.

 

In all fairness, I'm not really thrilled about seeing uber fast tennos as it makes aiming ridiculous. I'd rather have the current speed and retain the option to do stylish kills at a reasonable speed rather than super fast spray and pray gameplay.

[Llyssa]

 

However the added acceleration on slide attacks/coptering feels very wrong from an understanding of how the physics of it would work kind of view point.

The physics of it? My warframes all come with flowing nanite polymer exteriors that work like tank treads to drag me along perfectly fast, floating on an invisible layer of void burst produced by the polarity of the suit's skin interacting with the dynamic hyper core and repulsing against surfaces of exterior geometry! I'm surprised we don't accelerate more when we increase the surface area the nanites have to work with!! To disagree with that view proves you don't understand physics at all!

 

...or maybe you're assuming way too much about the WF universe...

[ElHefe]

@ Feallike ... appreciate your kind words
Perhaps this graph will help make my point about acceleration even clearer.  The chart shows Usain Bolt's change in speed over the 100 m dash.  Note that his speed changes the most at the starting line and levels off quickly at the 20 - 30 m mark but astonishingly continues to increase up to the half way point at 50 m.  Now it is important to note that Bolt is known for not being the fastest out of the starting blocks - in part because of his tremendous height, however, that is offset by the fact that he maintains his high speed until the finish line because of his fluid long stride.  Evenso, Bolt slows down in the last 10 m just as most runners do, its just that he slows down a bit less.

 

 

@ STRATA-Vathar ... excellent point - the speeds of all objects (Tenno, projectiles) need to scale together in some fashion

I refer everyone to an excellent thread "Nerdy Physics Stuff" by EunGiGhim and pay particular attention to immolator1001's excellent posts https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/262292-nerdy-physics-stuffs

 

@ fatpig84 ... no need to change the environmental map if peak speed is kept the same but early burst acceleration (say first 2-5 sec of movement) is bumped 

Edited August 21, 2014 by ElHefe

[Beef-DeathLegacy]

What do u think about an advanced.sprinting mechanic? Something that will add a function to sprint at a very high speed under the risk of collision damage and disability. It will exhaust stamina and very little power (power / distance channeling). Hopefully it does not outshine volt's speed but rather becomes an asset for all warframes that can be compounded by movespeed mods and power amps.

[Loswaith]

The physics of it? My warframes all come with flowing nanite polymer exteriors that work like tank treads to drag me along perfectly fast, floating on an invisible layer of void burst produced by the polarity of the suit's skin interacting with the dynamic hyper core and repulsing against surfaces of exterior geometry! I'm surprised we don't accelerate more when we increase the surface area the nanites have to work with!! To disagree with that view proves you don't understand physics at all!

 

...or maybe you're assuming way too much about the WF universe...

If thats the case you wouldnt run, and warframes would have no need for legs.