I Have Not Fought Jackal, Also Pokemon

[Ryanshow]

Been playing a couple weeks now. I realize I haven't fought the jackal boss ever. Or the hyena.

 

Yet I have almost every system open.

 

And I'm crafting a bunch of stuff I've only had to fight Anyo for Gallium and Morphics.

 

So I've been wondering why am I not required to face these bosses 90% of the time?

 

I realize that they have parts for crafting frames so if you're not paying you're going to face them.

 

But then platinum users will have no reason to ever fight them.

 

It seems a great shame for them to never be fought, so I tried to think of games with a good concept of bosses and progression and pokemon came to mind.

 

In most pokemon games you cannot progress to the next gym or town until you defeat the gym leader. Also you can't control higher level pokemon until you get badges. So what if the bosses served as a limiter to the players that they could not get to different planets without first having to go through the bosses. Also they could serve as an alternative to the rank testing and you'd be able to unlock gear based on the bosses you've defeated. Perhaps only on soloing them. That seems a non trivial assessment of skill or equipment. Heck even mod capacity level could be capped until you beat a boss to expand it to higher levels.

 

So how many people hate my idea and me for existing?

 

Anyone left who likes it?

[ShadowsCrush]

You're boarding spaceships/asteroids...you're in space...one planet doesn't link to another...

 

This isn't a Pokemon game where some town guard won't let you move on to the forest to the next town before you get approval from the Gym Leader.

 

There's no reason why a boss should have any influence as to whether or not you can go to another planet, especially one that isn't even the same faction/race.

Edited April 15, 2013 by ShadowsCrush

[Tsukinoki]

In most pokemon games you cannot progress to the next gym or town until you defeat the gym leader. Also you can't control higher level pokemon until you get badges. So what if the bosses served as a limiter to the players that they could not get to different planets without first having to go through the bosses. Also they could serve as an alternative to the rank testing and you'd be able to unlock gear based on the bosses you've defeated. Perhaps only on soloing them. That seems a non trivial assessment of skill or equipment. Heck even mod capacity level could be capped until you beat a boss to expand it to higher levels.

The problem is that some bosses are very hard, if not nearly impossible, to solo because their shields recharge far to fast for a single person to be able to knock down their shields *and* health. The hyena can recharge most if not all of its shields in a single reload of a gun unless you devote a slot to reload time when I would rather use that for damage mods.

If you had to solo the boss in order to rank up, unlock new planets, or more gear, you would find that it would be a *lot* harder to move forwards in the game, and frustratingly so. Try soloing the Hyena and I think you'll find that its shields simply recharge too fast to be able to easily deal with it, and it is not the only case of a boss having shields that recharge to fast to be feasible to be forced to fight it to unlock content.

[Yorinar]

While I don't agree that you should have to face a boss, what we have of the lore indicates that there is a solar rail network left over from the Orokin era that everyone uses.  It's a means of traveling quickly between planets and is the reason why you have to unlock missions to move forward.  Each mission unlocks a new portion of the solar rail system for you.  You could put a boss in front of the next planet's solar rail terminal, but with the exception of Tolstoj, that's not the case anywhere.

 

To address the OP's concerns, though, I wouldn't worry about bosses not getting attention.  Fossa (home of the Jackal) never wants for people running that mission.  Ditto on Psamathe for the Hyena.  There will always be people farming those blueprints.  I have crafted all the frames at this point, but I revisit them periodically just for the fun of it.

[Greene]

*Reads, "I have not fought jackal"*

"Lame."

*sees Also Pokemon*
*Immediately clicks*

[TinyLesbianRobot]

I generally think of the bosses in Warframe to be more equivalent to the raid bosses in Borderlands.  Great loot drops, but nearly impossible to solo (unless you're talking Vor, Anyo, Jackal, or J-3 Golem) so you've got to round up your friends and show 'em what-for.  Putting them in the way of progress would be utterly *infuriating* for solo players, given how beefy most of the bosses are.  My gear is waaay overlevelled for Jupiter (flying through the missions, giggling as Ancients explode into ice shards overlevelled) but the Golem is still very difficult to kill unless I'm carrying exactly the right tools for the job.

[Tsukinoki]

I generally think of the bosses in Warframe to be more equivalent to the raid bosses in Borderlands.  Great loot drops, but nearly impossible to solo (unless you're talking Vor, Anyo, Jackal, or J-3 Golem) so you've got to round up your friends and show 'em what-for.  Putting them in the way of progress would be utterly *infuriating* for solo players, given how beefy most of the bosses are.  My gear is waaay overlevelled for Jupiter (flying through the missions, giggling as Ancients explode into ice shards overlevelled) but the Golem is still very difficult to kill unless I'm carrying exactly the right tools for the job.

Anyo is one of the few easy bosses simply because of how much damage can be done with a single armor piercing headshot. I've been able to stun him with lightning, remove his shields in only a few more shots and then one shot to the head to remove all of his health in one go.

Golem isn't that hard as long as you can get on a box that is inside of his pull range so he doesnt pull you, and outside of the poison range. But that's just abusing poor AI at that point.

Overall boss shields would need to be seriously nerfed to be able to solo a lot of them solo because of how fast they recharge.

[Ryanshow]

You're boarding spaceships/asteroids...you're in space...one planet doesn't link to another...

 

This isn't a Pokemon game where some town guard won't let you move on to the forest to the next town before you get approval from the Gym Leader.

 

There's no reason why a boss should have any influence as to whether or not you can go to another planet, especially one that isn't even the same faction/race.

 

Insert blockade, warp jammer, Mysterious Mcguffin generator that must be stopped before progressing.

 

Have some imagination all thats needed is a flavor shift to account for the idea.

[Ryanshow]

Perhaps I should have been more forceful in my use of the word in that sentence. "Perhaps only on solo"

 

I have fought the guy on uranus before and seen a quick regenerating shield once before. And yah solo probably wouldn't be such a great idea.

 

Still having to get past them to get the next system would be great IMO since they kind of sit at the edges of their respective systems right now and just wave their fist at you telling you to get off their lawn.

[Dancingfirefly]

I've fought both Jackal and Tyl in alerts. An alert gives every player a chance to face a boss even if they're nowhere near that particular planet.

 

I won't say it's a bad idea, but I will say that it doesn't suit this particular game. I think this game is fine the way it is with the freedom to explore other systems without having to face particular bosses. Also, having to do bosses in order will restrict players who want to jump straight to farming certain frames, as they'd be forced to work through all the other bosses to get to that particular one.

[Ryanshow]

I've fought both Jackal and Tyl in alerts. An alert gives every player a chance to face a boss even if they're nowhere near that particular planet.

 

I won't say it's a bad idea, but I will say that it doesn't suit this particular game. I think this game is fine the way it is with the freedom to explore other systems without having to face particular bosses. Also, having to do bosses in order will restrict players who want to jump straight to farming certain frames, as they'd be forced to work through all the other bosses to get to that particular one.

 

I feel like it leads to largely ignoring these centerpieces though. We only go to a boss for a certain part and it is completely ignored unless we want that particular part.

 

If I don't care for or want a loki frame I won't ever encounter hyena unless an alert with him pops up... And how often does that happen? Then even when it does what is the likelihood I will be online when it does? And when it does will I just ignore that alert saying there are easier ones to get ???? rewards from?

 

I feel like its a waste to have the centerpieces be completely ignorable.

Edited April 15, 2013 by Ryanshow

[Ryanshow]

*Reads, "I have not fought jackal"*

"Lame."

*sees Also Pokemon*

*Immediately clicks*

 

Thread uses attract

 

Lurker is infatuated and must open.

[ShadowsCrush]

Insert blockade, warp jammer, Mysterious Mcguffin generator that must be stopped before progressing.

 

Have some imagination all thats needed is a flavor shift to account for the idea.

Dude...they haven't even figured out bulletproof glass, and you think they can block out an entire section of freaking SPACE?!

They are colonizing planets not building a deathstar.

[Ryanshow]

Dude...they haven't even figured out bulletproof glass, and you think they can block out an entire section of freaking SPACE?!

They are colonizing planets not building a deathstar.

 

They are using "Solar Rails" to get around though why can't they just sit on top of those and stop all progress.

 

You're rejecting the idea on the premise of Lore that isn't even completed or fleshed out yet. Stop.

[ShadowsCrush]

They are using "Solar Rails" to get around though why can't they just sit on top of those and stop all progress.

 

You're rejecting the idea on the premise of Lore that isn't even completed or fleshed out yet. Stop.

And you're trying to restrict game content based purely on the idea that you think every boss needs to be seen...

 

Like, half the planets aren't even held by the same race...you think the Grineer are like "yeah bro, we can't let you go destroy our enemies for us or stop the infestation from buttraping us, so you don't get to pass go or collect $200 until you beat up the Monopoly Guy in our super secret fortress."

[Ryanshow]

And you're trying to restrict game content based purely on the idea that you think every boss needs to be seen...

 

Like, half the planets aren't even held by the same race...you think the Grineer are like "yeah bro, we can't let you go destroy our enemies for us or stop the infestation from buttraping us, so you don't get to pass go or collect $200 until you beat up the Monopoly Guy in our super secret fortress."

 

See! now there is a valid argument! Good job. The part about restricting game content. But once again you fell into the lore reasoning that isn't even completed yet. Seriously it isn't done so yes there can be a reason why they wouldn't want tenno going forward. For instance a tenno warframe on the next system they'd like to liberate from the infested themselves. See how easy was that to come up with in 5 minutes?

 

But think more along the lines that no we aren't going to do the tenno any favors because we hate them for unexplained lore reason #58.

 

And yes I think every boss should be seen, If every one of them is optional whats the point of making them?

 

Perhaps I just have the perspective of a programmer. and I can tell how much work likely went into making them unique encounters.

 

To me it seems a waste of effort to have them be ignorable. What was the point of the work done? But also theres a richness and variety of content factor too so its not the same thing over and over. Also as a new player I haven't had difficulty with anything besides soloing and the odd boss on 4 player games. Bosses give a good challenge or so I've heard for them in this game.

[Tsukinoki]

Perhaps I just have the perspective of a programmer. and I can tell how much work likely went into making them unique encounters.

Only thing is that besides the Jackal and Hyena none of them are a "unique" encounter. They are all just supped up normal units for the most part. They might all have a gimmick but Vor is just a flameblade for example. Nef Anyo is just a corpus crewman that turns invisible. Maybe if they were actually more unique fights then I might agree with you.

The biggest problem is that a solo player wouldn't be able to get past some of the bosses because of shield regen and other things. Its bad to restrict game content based off of beating bosses because you lock out solo people who refuse to play online (and yes there are a few people who play this game solely in solo mode).

[Inberun]

I have no problem soloing bosses in this game. With a Hek fully modded and Rhino, you are a god. Even though I must admit that my first fight with Jackal was painful (4 people but took us 30 mins to bring down the beast).

[Tsukinoki]

I have no problem soloing bosses in this game. With a Hek fully modded and Rhino, you are a god. Even though I must admit that my first fight with Jackal was painful (4 people but took us 30 mins to bring down the beast).

Think how hard it would have been to say solo the hyena without your hek or rhino though? The OP is talking about it requiring soloing to continue on and rank up and get to more stuff.

I agree that the bosses are easy with fully modded heks (though TBH the hek is overpowered) but if you forced a low level player to have to solo Jackal too many people would get frustrated and pissed off.

[ReiganCross]

You're boarding spaceships/asteroids...you're in space...one planet doesn't link to another...

 

This isn't a Pokemon game where some town guard won't let you move on to the forest to the next town before you get approval from the Gym Leader.

 

There's no reason why a boss should have any influence as to whether or not you can go to another planet, especially one that isn't even the same faction/race.

 

Yes there is reason as to why a boss have influence in whther you can or not move to another planet and a damn good one. May i remind you that Lotus, while on the very first planet Lotus mentions that you'll need to fight your battles across the system to have acess to the Rail Network controlled by the Grineer and Corpus. She mentions after fighting Vor that by defeating him you have obtained acess to the Rail Network to get out of Mercury into the "nearby planets"(Since when is SATURN near Mercury? X__X). Which means that you ARE actually fighting battles to open your solar rail network and some bosses actually DO block you from reaching other planets. What he i suggesting is that maybe you could place this boss battle in front of a planet acess instead of all the way to the corner of the planet network.

[ShadowsCrush]

See! now there is a valid argument! Good job. The part about restricting game content. But once again you fell into the lore reasoning that isn't even completed yet. Seriously it isn't done so yes there can be a reason why they wouldn't want tenno going forward. For instance a tenno warframe on the next system they'd like to liberate from the infested themselves. See how easy was that to come up with in 5 minutes?

 

But think more along the lines that no we aren't going to do the tenno any favors because we hate them for unexplained lore reason #58.

 

And yes I think every boss should be seen, If every one of them is optional whats the point of making them?

 

Perhaps I just have the perspective of a programmer. and I can tell how much work likely went into making them unique encounters.

 

To me it seems a waste of effort to have them be ignorable. What was the point of the work done? But also theres a richness and variety of content factor too so its not the same thing over and over. Also as a new player I haven't had difficulty with anything besides soloing and the odd boss on 4 player games. Bosses give a good challenge or so I've heard for them in this game.

Your reasoning is more bogus than whatever you're trying to claim mine is.

You're saying lore can be made to fit your scenario's, which is all well and good, but it doesn't follow any logical coherency.

 

Take your example that maybe they want to clear them on their own.

Yet...here are the Tenno being hired to go in and clear them.

Now, if the Grineer have the power to stop us from moving on (according to your theory, us pro space ninja's and all), why not let us do the dirty work of clearing them out the mass numbers of infestation and then either just force our small numbers out, or wait until we leave since it's pretty clear we aren't in the business of planet colonization...

[breakandburn]

The Jackal is the best Bossfight so far, as it is the only one that presents you with a different callenge than grinding down an insane amount of hp dumped into a modified normal enemy.

 

So you are missing out on one of the best things in this game so far. If you choose to do that you can, but I don't see why you wouldn't want to play them.

Mandatory soloing of Bosses is also a bad idea because certain Warframes have advantages against certain Bosses. Locking systems would mean that everybody would be able to access Warframes in a certain order. That would make it much harder for players without maxed out equipment or those that have not bought another Warframe.

It kind of undermines the idea of coop PvE if you force players to play solo to progress.

[Ghobe]

They are using "Solar Rails" to get around though why can't they just sit on top of those and stop all progress.

Go sit on the tracks and stop a train. Go ahead, use another train, the train in motion will still win. It may get banged up, but it will win.

 

And yes I think every boss should be seen, If every one of them is optional whats the point of making them?

 

Perhaps I just have the perspective of a programmer. and I can tell how much work likely went into making them unique encounters.

 

To me it seems a waste of effort to have them be ignorable. What was the point of the work done? But also theres a richness and variety of content factor too so its not the same thing over and over. Also as a new player I haven't had difficulty with anything besides soloing and the odd boss on 4 player games. Bosses give a good challenge or so I've heard for them in this game.

Optional content in games tend to be the hardest content, hence why they're optional...for now. They're working on the lore right now(so they said in the livestream) and who knows, SOME of them might become mandatory questline wise, but that's about it.

 

But then platinum users will have no reason to ever fight them.

Platinum users don't have a reason to play the game in the slightest. There's nothing to earn, there's nothing to craft you can't buy with platinum, there's nothing. The only reason to play would be that you enjoy the game, and if you enjoy the bosses, you can fight them too.

[ShadowsCrush]

The Jackal is the best Bossfight so far, as it is the only one that presents you with a different callenge than grinding down an insane amount of hp dumped into a modified normal enemy.

 

So you are missing out on one of the best things in this game so far. If you choose to do that you can, but I don't see why you wouldn't want to play them.

Mandatory soloing of Bosses is also a bad idea because certain Warframes have advantages against certain Bosses. Locking systems would mean that everybody would be able to access Warframes in a certain order. That would make it much harder for players without maxed out equipment or those that have not bought another Warframe.

It kind of undermines the idea of coop PvE if you force players to play solo to progress.

This is a spot on point, and goes into more detail than just my "restricting content"

I wasn't even thinking about particular frames, but that's probably the best point yet.

[Yorinar]

tl;dr Giving players freedom to choose what content to pull is a better gameplay experience, and this topic is a non-issue because plenty of people run bosses giving them the exposure they deserve.

 

One other hitch in the blocking plan is that some planets like Venus are nexus points in the solar rail system.  Unless the boss is the first mission on Venus, you'd have a hard time blocking anything without restructuring the area's layout.

 

But like I said before, these bosses aren't hurting for people hitting them.  I think the OP can at least acknowledge that a) bosses get regularly run by many people even though they are off the beaten path and b) solo'ing most bosses isn't an option for most players.  DE has been very good about providing diversity and versatility, so forcing players into one play style is neither a good thing, nor something I expect they are inclined to do.  They deliberately put them in places where they weren't required (except Mercury).  I actually think not having to fight a boss unless you want to is one of the more interesting aspects of the Warframe experience, and it promotes individualized development of your tenno.

 

Content is much more enjoyable when you can pull it, rather than it being shoved down your throat.  I'm a programmer too, and I admit feeling a little sad when I work hard on a feature that never gets touched.  That's not the case for bosses in this game.

 

On a side note, DE has stated they are actively working on improving boss fights.  If you make attractive content, people will go to it regardless of whether it's required.