Easy Fix For Rhino

[Arabaxus]

 

here is my suggestion to fix "rhino op, plz nerf" node players and "rhino sucks dont use end game"

 

 

 

It starts with Roar becoming the second skill, dropping the cost to 50 energy. Iron skin becomes his third ability, grants invulnerability[no damage, cc immune], becomes toggle-able, draws aggro [and maintains aggro for 5 seconds after use, making it dangerous if timed wrong] and has a %drain on energy or a high energy drain [maybe 12%or20 drain/second, equating to ~8 seconds duration with full, unmodified energy bar] and his 4th loses damage but increases a little in range.

 

this will make roar more usable, remove the somewhat uselessness of iron skin late game, remove the rhino op complaints from stomp whilst maintaining its utility.

what do you fellow tenno think?

EDIT:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

nice to know you say why...

 

 

 

No.

 

Roar as a "2" Power would be ridiculously overpowered. Blind Rage alone increasing the damage buff to double your base at the current cost of 150 energy (half of your energy with 5/5 Flow or all of it without) makes Roar reliant on player choice, whether to buff strength at the cost of increased casting cost or keep it cheap so it is recastable. At its current cost, a Roar oriented build is still a perfectly viable build, as much as a Stomp CC build. As it stands it promotes an acceptable amount of diversity. There are proper pros and cons for each one. Player choice and tendency however, is merely a choice by the players.

 

If Roar were to become a 50 energy power, you would get a base 50% buff for 50 energy for 15 seconds.

 

With the correct mods and sacrificing range, you can get a 130% buff that lasts for well over 20 seconds for 32.5 energy.

 

With a cost that low, there would definitely be complaints from the "veteran" players about how instead of the "Rhinoobs" spamming Iron Skin to not die, they spam Roar to repeatedly cheese any enemy before it becomes a threat by damaging it into the ground, while continuing to complain that Rhino scales terribly for endgame.

 

On the flipside, I still do not understand how Rhino scales poorly for endgame. A consistent x2 or greater damage buff that can be self-applied for an economical amount of energy with the base cost being 75 is a perfectly viable for a decent duration of time in Tower 4 Survival. Near everything is trivialized past a certain point, which seems to be the direction Digital Extremes is heading. Nyx with the current changes clearly shows that they are trying to discourage long-haul runs, since 8 energy per 1000 damage absorbed means a maximum sponge factor of 56250 damage assuming no energy is consumed in the process. Even at levels as low as 40, 3 fusion MOAs can deal that much damage in a matter of seconds. Although Chaos is arguably indefinite in terms of scaling, Chaos does not solve the issue of enemies having ridiculous armor and HP values at long times, which Absorb used to the only damage-based ability that scaled with enemy level, which has been swapped out in favor of an arguably well disguised immensely nerfed version relative to the previous version.

 

Meanwhile, Rhino Stomp gets an 8 second stasis effect, unaffected by Power Duration, which means you can make it extremely cheap to cast with a ridiculous range. 8 Second Stasis for 25 energy sounds pretty viable to me in terms of CC, so I don't know.

Keep Rhino/Prime as it is. So what if it is a crutch for new players? Not everything has to be hard, especially for mission nodes, which are known to be low level/difficulty. Rhino may seem to be more common, but that doesn't necessarily (and in this case, it clearly doesn't) mean that it is overpowered. Sure, Rhino makes low level content easy, perhaps more so than other frames, but it's clearly not overpowered, considering that the diversity of the warframe selection currently is rather good, though with many Rhinos and less Trinity, Hydroid, and Zephyr. Rhino still has his niche, a sort of versatile tank, moreso than a melee oriented, arguably tankier Valkyr.

 

 

im saying it isnt usable end game, 2 hits its gone

 

 

2 hits means a lot, especially in a game without a form of a healthgate system. 

Personally when I use Rhino for Survival, I constantly keep Iron Skin up, even at the point where a single shot can destroy it, just because a single shot might just matter, and I use it as a pseudo-healthgate.

Edited August 29, 2014 by Arabaxus

[Yazeth]

I tried out the snipers, they're still S#&$. I tried out oberon, he's still S#&$. 

 

Talk to me when DE actually releases a buff that isn't a joke.

 

1) My Lanka: http://goo.gl/fiYQOI vs. my Boltor Prime: http://goo.gl/C4f5X8

 

Make sure you click on details and compare Ferrite DMG. Pretty much on par with Burst DPS, and Lanka wins or Sustained DPS. 

 

Also, snipers are meant for single target elimination. I'm just making this comparison b/c a lot of people seem to like to compare DPS with EVERY weapon. You will get more dps on Boltor Prime w/ Speed Trigger, but you'll just be wasting more ammo then, and that may mean that Lanka can possibly win in the long run.

 

2) I dunno how the buff affected Oberon yet. But, it's still too soon to tell anyways.

[Demon-King-Lamb]

No. If you want him fixed then lets have all the original abilites back. When Iron Skin lasted 15sec. And bring back Radial Blast. In my opinion is way better than stomping the ground. I liked the Punch the ground and then watch the enemies die all around.

[fatpig84]

You honestly think that if they reworked rhino it wouldn't lead to him being way weaker than he is now?

 

I don't really care what DE did in the past. Every "balance" they've done to warframe since U14 has been completely stupid and unreasonable. Everything they touch either becomes S#&$, or was already S#&$ and is still S#&$ because the buffs are a joke.

 

Eventually, this leads to everything being S#&$, so the best solution is clearly for them to never "balance" anything again.

 

That I disagree.

Nyx might be badly affected by this one.

 

That doesn't mean all other frames "suck".

Edited August 29, 2014 by fatpig84

[Sebastianx]

Actually...that's perfect, while Iron Skin won't be as good early game as it is now because let's face it, it will cost you more energy to absorb the same damage if not more by just casting it once, since enemies don't have that much of a fighting chance...BUT late game it can prove to be one of the best skills in the game, being able to survive for as long as you can find energy orbs....

 

Also more range on stomp to focus it on CC? YES please, and that Roar being more usable with less energy cost, oh my, my support Rhino would most certainly enjoy that.

[insaninater]

That I disagree.

Nyx might be badly affected by this one.

 

That doesn't mean all other frames "suck".

 

Of course all other frames don't suck. They just will eventually if frames keep getting nerfed.

[Sebastianx]

I though something like this would work.

Iron skin base HP > 1500

Upon activation grants 5 seconds of invulnerability. All damage taken in that time is then boosted by 100% and then added to Iron Skins health pool.

Duration mods do not increase the absorbtion period and strength mods boost the base HP and the multiplier.

This makes the power scale a lot better into the endgame and removes some of its cheesiness early on.

As of now you can hit 2 as soon as the game starts and rush through everything no problem. By reducing the base HP this is mitigated.

That, I like that as well, give it the Snow Globe treatment, should indeed make rhino more usable in the late game...just yesterday me and a clan mate went Cryo farming on Earth and by the time we had 2800, enemies would almost never spawn, but when they'd spawn, a lvl 120 balista would one shot me through Iron skin...your idea would have been so useful right about then.

[Eric1738]

tbh rhino is not that op in late game high level missions. but the majority wont play that at all. they wont know how fragile iron skin is, how bad stomp is as cc in late game

[Tiqalicious]

Nope, an iron skin is great for late game 

Iron skin tears like paper on late game, what the hell are you talking about?

[(PSN)IIIDevoidIII]

Thread cleaned a bit. "No" isn't valid feedback.

Moved to a more appropriate section.

[Aratir]

How is ironskin good for lategame? :D It gets destoryed instantly, unless lvl 15 mobs are lategame for some....

[FatalJ]

...

Iron skin base HP > 1500

Upon activation grants 5 seconds of invulnerability. All damage taken in that time is then boosted by 100% and then added to Iron Skins health pool.

Duration mods do not increase the absorbtion period and strength mods boost the base HP and the multiplier.

This makes the power scale a lot better into the endgame and removes some of its cheesiness early on.

....

The big trade off here is that your mod slots become harder to choose

Oh thank the Lord, I thought for a moment then that you'd beaten me to the same idea, and I created an entire thread repeating what someone else has already said. Thankfullly a) My post was earlier (Phew! :D) and b) the ideas have enough differences to be seperate ideas in their own rights ;)

I'm not sure I'm understanding you correctly, but it sounds like you are giving the Rhino 1500Hp base and then adding this additonal shield on top? If that is the case I agree it will scale well, but that doesn't address the cheese at standard level at all sadly, since his unmodded shield HP is only 1200 before taking into consideration of power strength. Furthermore a 100% boost sounds like it pushing this ablity into crazy territory. If you assume the Rhinos takes exactly the same damage continuously, the damage sustained during the 5 second window would extend to a total of 15 seconds where he is bascially invincible.

 

 

I went for pretty much a total overhaul of his skills. My thread is quite long, so I'll sum it up quickly: -

 

 - Change Roar to cause panic in the enemy ranks and draw aggro from enemies affected for the duration, and instead of giving allies a random damage steroid, instead lower enemy armour (reducing the damage buff effectively to make way for this aggro ability).

 - Reduce the CC on Stomp to move away from this CC bot type of gameplay and make the Rhino an actual tank.

 - Give Iron Skin simply 5 seconds of invulnerablity where he absorbs damage from enemies. At the end the damage sustained is granted as a shield (overwriting any previous IS shield), and give the ability a cooldown of say 20s (to prevent Power Efficiency chaining).

The idea was to focus the Rhino on the synergy provided by Roar and Iron Skin to turn him into a proper tank frame that can scale his shield based on what he is fighting against, and isntead using his CC and cover to hold out between Iron Skin cooldowns. This makes players have to choose the best time to activate iron Skin instead of maintaining it whenever you can.

Full explanations of my thought process are detailed here if anyones fancies a good old fashioned read and doesn't mind a shameless thread plug: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/299527-the-rhino-conundrum-op-up-at-the-same-time/

 

Edited August 30, 2014 by FatalJ

[JacobLittle]

Rhino... op? Lemme get back to you after I finish never taking damage with Loki's Invisibility and Radial Disarm, never getting killed along with my allies with Trinity's Blessing, never taking damage and healing with Valkyr's Hysteria, and flat out killing everything with Nova's Molecular Prime and not allowing a single grineer to see due to Radial Blinds light...

 

To be perfectly honest though, Rhino ain't that op. Loki trivializes content so much more than Rhino ever can (the only exception being low leveled content where stomp flat out kills everything, oh wait Mag destroys low leveled stuff better anyways).