Fix The Vectis...nay Fix All Snipers

[Eggs-DE-]

 

I mean seriously, an arrow fired by a string can punch-through AND ragdoll...but a sniper round can only go through one body? Don't make sense right?

I'll accept any buff to snipers because I doubt anyone could realistically say that a single one is overpowered. But, I disagree with this logic right here because the Paris's description says that the bows use railgun esque technology. Its description is "Paris uses a chargeable magnetic field to launch arrows". The firing method for guns is unknown, but it's could be assumed they're using a synthetic (cause universal ammo) and powerful alloy (mixture of ferrite and rubedo I would assume) with a more advanced gunpowder. The bows probably have arrows made of the same thing but they're bigger and propelled differently. The weight of the arrow could explain ragdolling and the magnetic momentum and superior arrow tip could explain punch through. A single bullet round going through two meters of armor(flesh and armor don't change the distance) seems to make less sense imo and seems untraditional since innate punch through is associated with charged shots. 

[Semshol]

I'll accept any buff to snipers because I doubt anyone could realistically say that a single one is overpowered. But, I disagree with this logic right here because the Paris's description says that the bows use railgun esque technology. Its description is "Paris uses a chargeable magnetic field to launch arrows". The firing method for guns is unknown, but it's could be assumed they're using a synthetic (cause universal ammo) and powerful alloy (mixture of ferrite and rubedo I would assume) with a more advanced gunpowder. The bows probably have arrows made of the same thing but they're bigger and propelled differently. The weight of the arrow could explain ragdolling and the magnetic momentum and superior arrow tip could explain punch through. A single bullet round going through two meters of armor(flesh and armor don't change the distance) seems to make less sense imo and seems untraditional since innate punch through is associated with charged shots. 

 

With our current technology, a sniper rifle round can go through 2 - 3 bodies with no problem, depending on area hit. Anti-Tank Sniper, even more. Source: Was a soldier.

 

So in the future we can only hit 1 target? C'mon that just makes no sense.

 

Regardless of what tech the bow has, the snipers need that innate-punch through buff just to put it on par. The bows ragdolling is already an advantage, at least let snipers have the punch-through.

Edited September 3, 2014 by Semshol

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

With our current technology, a sniper rifle can go through 3 bodies with no problem. Anti-Tank Sniper, even more.

 

So in the future we can only hit 1 target? C'mon that just makes no sense.

 

Regardless of what tech the bow has, the snipers need that innate-punch through buff just to put it on par. The bows ragdolling is already an advantage, at least let snipers have the punch-through.

Just imagine punchthrough with a Infrared scope.  Sniping enemies through walls, especially on thos DSD where the are constantly stuck in the Geometry.  That or thing about using the scope to hunt tumor nodes in a breeding grounds style event.

 

They would finally have their own niche.

[Semshol]

Just imagine punchthrough with a Infrared scope.  Sniping enemies through walls, especially on thos DSD where the are constantly stuck in the Geometry.  That or thing about using the scope to hunt tumor nodes in a breeding grounds style event.

 

They would finally have their own niche.

 

That would be great. I mean, targeting enemies in that way is amazing, so I'm all for it, but here's to hoping DE actually decides to give it punch-through. Literally that would fix snipers because it opens up a slot for more damage rather than having to fix punch-through right now with a mod.

[Eggs-DE-]

With our current technology, a sniper rifle round can go through 2 - 3 bodies with no problem, depending on area hit. Anti-Tank Sniper, even more. Source: Was a soldier.

 

So in the future we can only hit 1 target? C'mon that just makes no sense.

 

Regardless of what tech the bow has, the snipers need that innate-punch through buff just to put it on par. The bows ragdolling is already an advantage, at least let snipers have the punch-through.

Alright, I can accept sniper punch through in light of this evidence. But I do believe the arrow should punch through more than the bullet. In the alternate future, not being able to hit multiple targets made sense because grineer have a lot more metal on their bodies, corpus have shields you try to push the bullet away, and the infested have a tissue mutation that could increase durability and thickness. It made sense to me that bullets wouldn't go through due to the difference of what people would wear into combat today. However, it also makes to me now that technology for assault could improve as defense does. Tenno weaponry is superior so a few meters of punch through makes some sense now.

[Semshol]

Alright, I can accept sniper punch through in light of this evidence. But I do believe the arrow should punch through more than the bullet. In the alternate future, not being able to hit multiple targets made sense because grineer have a lot more metal on their bodies, corpus have shields you try to push the bullet away, and the infested have a tissue mutation that could increase durability and thickness. It made sense to me that bullets wouldn't go through due to the difference of what people would wear into combat today. However, it also makes to me now that technology for assault could improve as defense does. Tenno weaponry is superior so a few meters of punch through makes some sense now.

 

Bows can have more punchthrough because they have both punch AND ragdoll (which takes out an entire crowd if they're lined up btw)

 

Sniper right now have neither. Ragdolling wouldn't make sense, but the punch-through at least does. If we have magnetic technology for bows, the same gauss-type tech would be applied to the long-barrels of the sniper. Therefore having some punch-through is sensible.

 

I don't want to take anything from bows. I just want innate punch-through added to the sniper =P

[JacobLittle]

A sniper with x-ray vision that shoots through walls. The more walls it goes through, the lower the damage or any other thing to balance it.

 

That would be nice to have.

Edited September 3, 2014 by JacobLittle

[fatpig84]

Vectis / Lanka / regular Snipetron just need 100% crit with maxed Point Strike.

Vulkar will be 75% crit rate.

 

Snipetron Vandal get 125% crit for red crits because it is a Vandal yeaaaaaaaaah.

Edited September 3, 2014 by fatpig84

[Semshol]

A sniper with x-ray vision that shoots through walls. The more walls it goes through, the lower the damage or any other thing to balance it.

 

That would be nice to have.

 

LOL! I would feel like super man :)

 

 

Vectis / Lanka / regular Snipetron just need 100% crit with maxed Point Strike.

Vulkar will be 75% crit rate.

 

Snipetron Vandal get 125% crit for red crits because it is a Vandal yeaaaaaaaaah.

 

100% crit would have the bow users crying OP. Heck people are already opposing it.

 

35% base is just enough, because you'll only see a regular shot once in a blue moon. (87.5% with point strike).

 

The innate punch-through is much more important though, to increase the base damage.

[Gahrzerkire]

One of the main problems not typically addressed regarding snipers in Warframe is that they don't have a niche to fill. Right now, both bows and Snipers are being used in a game where you're always exposed, always needing to be on the move (except for Defense or their ilk), and always dealing with swarms of enemies. Snipers are best used when you can be careful with your shot, and not have to worry a great deal about the fact that you're probably going to be mobbed any second, since all the enemies know exactly where you are.

Proposed solution: Allow for sniper-nest type areas within Defense-style missions, so you can actually snipe.

Oh, and we also need a damage buff, infrared, and punch-through. Those are needed too.

Agree 100% with this Damage Buff (more so in crit chance then damage) infrared and punch through for our snipers. 

[OnnaJReverT]

snipers need to be able to reach 100% crit with pointstrike for consistencies sake, the non-crit that happens "once in a blue moon" happily fucks you over if that heavy you just shot is still standing and spooling up his gorgon

 

furthermore, both snipers and bows need their own variation of multi-shot mod that reaches exactly 100% on maxrank, again for consistency

 

if you shoot an enemy in the head with a sniperrifle, he should be dead, not dead 87.5% of the time

Edited September 3, 2014 by OnnaJReverT

[GSDAkatsuki]

Crit chance buff would be lovely, i want reliable crit shots when i snipe targets. Doesn't need red crits, just perfect 100% with point strike would be great

Edited September 3, 2014 by GSDAkatsuki

[Saiyanjin1]

Am I the ONLY one to think all Snipers really need to be viable is slightly higher crit change AND DAMAGE? 35% crit chance is more than enough and say a base x5 crit damage would also work nicely seeing as you could get that up to an x11 damage per crit with vital sense and an insane x14 with hammershot and vital sense.

 

The innate Punch through I also agree with but ironically the only sniper rifle I own is the Snipetron Vandle which is 3m innate.

 

I'm quite sure at that high of a dame output people will FORCE them selves to use snipers more often and make em play differently also. 

[Semshol]

-Quoted wrong- 

 

Edited September 3, 2014 by Semshol

[Semshol]

snipers need to be able to reach 100% crit with pointstrike for consistencies sake, the non-crit that happens "once in a blue moon" happily fucks you over if that heavy you just shot is still standing and spooling up his gorgon

 

furthermore, both snipers and bows need their own variation of multi-shot mod that reaches exactly 100% on maxrank, again for consistency

 

if you shoot an enemy in the head with a sniperrifle, he should be dead, not dead 87.5% of the time

 

I agree 200%, don't get me wrong on that count. I'm just worried that community will QQ about overbuffing nonsense and then we'd get a nerf which is stupid, and this actually does happen.

 

So rather than that I'll take what makes things consistent enough. Doesn't have to be perfect, just good enough for viability.

Edited September 3, 2014 by Semshol

[Saiyanjin1]

If all snipers got 100% crit, no one would use Vectis lol.

 

Vectis needs the innate punch-through to match other snipers.

 

That said 100% crit would be alright, but a lot of the community would QQ about over buffing. So 35% is a good way to shut them up I reckon.

 

I didn't say anything about 100% crit chance buff, I said 35% at base which would be more than enough. I was more talking about giving Snipers the highest crit DAMAGE in the game which honestly would make sense for a BFG(Big Fracken Gun).

[Semshol]

I didn't say anything about 100% crit chance buff, I said 35% at base which would be more than enough. I was more talking about giving Snipers the highest crit DAMAGE in the game which honestly would make sense for a BFG(Big Fracken Gun).

 

My bad, I think I quoted wrong. The post I made after was the correct one. Sorry about that.

 

I do agree though with what you said about it being the highest damage, but the multiplier is way too high x'D a x6 multiplier is enough to wreck everything.

[OnnaJReverT]

@Semshol

 

no sensible person would complain about sniper receiving 100% critrate with pointstrike, because bows still do the job better with redcrits

 

also, why would 100% crit make the vectis obsolete? its reload-speed is higher than the RoF of any other currently obtainable sniper in the game (dont know stats of snipetron-family) and it also sports the highest sniper-damage, no to mention charged/primed chamber

[Saiyanjin1]

I was thinking a x5 multiplier would be enough. I can see any of the snipers one shotting thing even at level 100 with alittle bit of luck (multishot, multicrit, etc). That would be insane amounts of damage without even factoring in things like Sonar, Molecular Prime, Roar, headshots or anything that would increase your damage. Imagine one shots to heavy gunners that are level 100 with ease (without a red crit from a bow).

 

I think you again mis-read (no big deal) I said snipers should have a x5 base crit damage. the x11 you saw was after adding Vital Sense and the x14 was after adding Vital Sense and Hammer Shot.

Edited September 3, 2014 by Saiyanjin1

[painterman]

The only buff/fix they need is reliable dmg vía crits. 40% base is the magic nombre(100% after vital sense) and you can go for more via critical delay (119%~) to be en par whit bows.

I even say to lower their dmg in exchange for stability, about 25 less dmg.

Sorry bad english :p

[Semshol]

@Semshol

 

no sensible person would complain about sniper receiving 100% critrate with pointstrike, because bows still do the job better with redcrits

 

also, why would 100% crit make the vectis obsolete? its reload-speed is higher than the RoF of any other currently obtainable sniper in the game (dont know stats of snipetron-family) and it also sports the highest sniper-damage, no to mention charged/primed chamber

 

I don't fear the sensible people, I fear the non-sensible bow lovers who don't want their perfect weapon taken away. Like I said, it's happened before.

 

Also 100% crit on all Snipers would make the Lanka a better weapon. Yes, no charged chamber, but 5m innate punch-through is really awesome.

 

That said all snipers basically need a crit buff, but Vectis needs both crit and punch-through.

[Semshol]

I was thinking a x5 multiplier would be enough. I can see any of the snipers one shotting thing even at level 100 with alittle bit of luck (multishot, multicrit, etc). That would be insane amounts of damage without even factoring in things like Sonar, Molecular Prime, Roar, headshots or anything that would increase your damage. Imagine one shots to heavy gunners that are level 100 with ease (without a red crit from a bow).

 

I think you again mis-read (no big deal) I said snipers should have a x5 base crit damage. the x11 you saw was after adding Vital Sense and the x14 was after adding Vital Sense and Hammer Shot.

 

Yeah I meant x6 AFTER vital sense. Because 6x damage is seriously enough to blow a hole through anything. x11 and users of any other weapon would rage x'D They'd rage even for 6x since all other weapons (in their minds) would be useless. So I'm trying to avoid damage buffs and sticking the rate and punch-through buffs which noobs won't complain about too much.

 

We get our nice quiet sniper buff and everyone is happy.

[OnnaJReverT]

well, it's not like anybody is gonna listen to the nonsensical bow-lovers anyway, not to mention that bows wouldnt need to be touched, so what'd be keeping them from using them anyway?

[BrazilianJoe]

Snipers need to hit enemies as if their armor is halved. (-50% armor penalty).

Also native punch-through for all of them. 

I'd also remove hitscan from all weapons but snipers and Lex to make hitscan a sniper exclusive advantage.

[Niryco]

A sniper rifle is a weapon that trades magazine capacity and fire rate for a "one shot-one kill" deal.

 

This does not happen in Warframe.

 

The Vectis completely loses out to bows and the advantage of hit-scan being better for head-shots doesn't do much to help its case. For weapons that are in the same class..there really shouldn't be such a gap.

 

So here, this is what is needed to fix the Vectis, I have forma'd and potato'd one, so this is being said after a comparison to Paris Prime similarly forma'd and potato'd.

 

Vectis:

- Increase crit rate to 35% base

- Innate punch-through of 2m

 

I mean seriously, an arrow fired by a string can punch-through AND ragdoll...but a sniper round can only go through one body? Don't make sense right?

 

With just those two fixes, the Vectis will become viable and snipers will finally have their day. In fact JUST the punch-through fix alone would be enough.

 

I am unable to test other snipers because the performance of Vectis just shut me down.

Dude i will be honest with you, even if snipers could do red-crits and have innate punch through, they would still have no purpose whence compared to bows.

 

The reason being is that you will always be in a more vulnerable position rapid firing, or even firing a sniper than a bow because of the zoom magnification. The higher zoom magnification creates the tunnelling vision effect which is only good for a one on one target, but it will suck from switch target to target because the zoom would make target acquisition harder.

 

Unlike a bow where you have a wider field of vision, faster firing, ADS, etc etc, you will never be able to compete. In addition the tunnelling vision effect is not good for groups of enemies, that is why bows are better because you know where you can put that arrow down range to maximize its absurd damage, you can't do that with snipers at all and if you could it would not be easy game.

 

Also zoom of a sniper doesn't help in close range at all, paired with the snipers lower fire-rate with the exception only being the vectis, you cannot ever do well in closer range combat which is what warframe is evolved from mostly. Snipers simply are not suited for the combat that is present within the game.

 

No stats changes will affect the snipers, they just get stronger but overall they are limited mechanics wise and even now they also have punch through but seriously that is the only seriously and positive change that has its effects noticeable. There is also a reason why the lanka can still beat the vectis and it is not because it has higher damage, but because the electric proc allows it to hit more than 5 enemies with one shot, paired with the punch through, you could kill up to 20 enemies in a single shot.

 

No matter how it is way better to have an AOE weapon than a oneshot weapon in warframe. Pretty much any gun can oneshot a level 30 enemy, or even two shot them if they are that weak(glaxion) but the main difference is how many enemeis can you one shot in a single shot, that is what matters and snipers can only do it in a straight row, similar to all weapons with a shred on, thus making this distinction not even a proper novelty.

 

These weapons need more purpose outside of stats hogging. Also firing one doesn't generate a powerful feel, the snipers i have to admit have a dull feel, it sounds like they make more high pitched noises(low calibre rounds) than the booms(high calibre rounds).

Edited September 3, 2014 by Jacate