Change Arcane Helmets To Separate, Non-Cosmetic Upgrade Items

[Xarteros]

Keeping this short:

Quick version
1: Turn Arcane helmets into "Arcane Sigils", equipped separately to cosmetic helmets.

2: Add Arcane Sigil bluprints as rare drops or mission rewards

3: Re-work Sigil bonuses to better suit the play-style of the appropriate warframes

4: (optional) Create visual Sigil badges in the same slot as clan badges, so players can visually see what Sigil you are using.

Elaborated Version
1: Making them a separate item to cosmetic helmets means you can choose the look you like best, and pair it with the bonus that suits your play style the best. Players with an arcane helmet would just have it replaced with the Sigil instead, and possibly get a copy of the cosmetic helmet

 

2: Its important to not penalize new players without ruining the experience of old players. Old players could get Arcane Helmets quite easily, so new players should still be able to get them, but with a bit more difficulty. They should either be rare alert mission rewards or semi-rare drops from Nightmare mode boss missions.

3: Many Arcane helmets were either UP or OP, because of the stats they were influencing. The stat bonuses and penalties should be keyed more to the Warframe, and how it could create a variant play style to the original style.

Example: Rhino's Vanguard creates a fast-paced Rhino alternative, but it should make him less armoured or shielded, to make it a slightly lighter, much faster Rhino. The alternative, Thrak, could make you sprint a bit slower, but instead boost your power strength to make a more damaged-focused Rhino. Playing with each different sigil should prompt different tactics and/or mod loadouts to suit the new bonuses & penalties.

4: Sigils could be equipped from the Clan Badge slot (not the Event badge slot), which would come with a simple badge (could just be a placeholder Lotus, or a different, simple design for each Sigil). DISCLAIMER: I don't mean this to be a big cosmetic thing, more of a quick identifier to what Sigil a frame is using, so you don't have to ask.

Just an option, easily worked around to have no cosmetic effect whatsoever.

Random Add-on idea:
If sigils would be in the same tab as the Clan badges, make Clan badges give 5% (or so) bonus weapon damage per clan member in your squad wearing their badge. That way, that entire tab can be called the Sigil tab, and dedicated to stat-bonus add-ons
 

Edited September 6, 2014 by Xarteros

[Frostosti]

admins want to remove all the bonus for the cosmetics, that is why they removed the arcane helmets.

so there is a 0% chance stats on cosmetics will ever return.

[43Emprah]

The only issue with Arcane helmets having stats, is that they weren't removed sooner. The devs have zero future interest in cosmetic based stat boosts/changes. The only reason Arcane helmets were grandfathered in, is because a LOT of players had paid for them with platinum, specifically for the bonuses they provided. It wouldn't have been reasonable to remove the stats from helmets already made/purchased. Allowing the leftover blueprints to still craft Arcane helmets was left in to stimulate trading.

Over time the helms with stats will phase themselves out of heavy use.

[OkniolasPrime]

The only issue with Arcane helmets having stats, is that they weren't removed sooner. The devs have zero future interest in cosmetic based stat boosts/changes. The only reason Arcane helmets were grandfathered in, is because a LOT of players had paid for them with platinum, specifically for the bonuses they provided. It wouldn't have been reasonable to remove the stats from helmets already made/purchased. Allowing the leftover blueprints to still craft Arcane helmets was left in to stimulate trading.

Over time the helms with stats will phase themselves out of heavy use.

Not quite so, I don't see a reason why people would want to get rid of these.

I personally have arcane helmets of Warframes that I don't even use, why?

Because they are RARE and they are very useful, like I mean who would not like 15% more power efficiency?

[43Emprah]

Not quite so, I don't see a reason why people would want to get rid of these.

I personally have arcane helmets of Warframes that I don't even use, why?

Because they are RARE and they are very useful, like I mean who would not like 15% more power efficiency?

Who said anything about players who have them wanting to get rid of them?

I said the DEVS don't want cosmetics to have stats anymore, and frankly most of the playerbase agrees. The reason I said they should have been removed sooner, was so that less people would have become accustomed to having alternate stats. Had the band-aid been ripped off much sooner, it wouldn't be as problematic moving forward.

As for the reason a lot of players didn't want stats on helms moving forward, which in turn pushed the devs to make that decision final, was that players want to customize their frames, based on their aesthetic preferences, without making stat compromises. Some helmets that players enjoyed changed their stats in ways they found undesirable, or they felt compelled to use helmets they disliked aesthetically, because it granted them that boost.

As for my comment regarding helmets phasing themselves out over time, is related to the fact that there is a finite amount of them, each new player introduced to the game has a significantly lower chance of acquiring them. Players who have them will also potentially be drawn to more aesthetically desirable helmets that get released. which in turn, also reduces the amount of Arcane helmets being used. I said they would phase themselves out of USE, not out of existence. You even stated yourself you have Arcanes you don't use. I have all of them, and I only use 2 or 3 myself. If another helmet comes along that I like the look of, I'd have little hesitation to unequip an Arcane helmet for the bulk of my playtime.

[Xarteros]

this is why i'm saying to actually SEPARATE the stats from the cosmetics. The main reason I suggested to put it in the Clan Badge section is because it'd be easy for them to slip it in there, since it's only got one item in it. They could just make a separate tab for it in the arsenal menu.

As they stand, they are like non-upgradable corrupt mods, but i suggest they should be unique to each warframe, like the original arcane bonuses. they would still be different to mods, allowing a greater variety of choice for players to gear their frame toward.

[43Emprah]

this is why i'm saying to actually SEPARATE the stats from the cosmetics. The main reason I suggested to put it in the Clan Badge section is because it'd be easy for them to slip it in there, since it's only got one item in it. They could just make a separate tab for it in the arsenal menu.

As they stand, they are like non-upgradable corrupt mods, but i suggest they should be unique to each warframe, like the original arcane bonuses. they would still be different to mods, allowing a greater variety of choice for players to gear their frame toward.

This seems to fall under their plans for the focus system. 

Edit: Also you are far from the first to suggest this, it has been discussed at length, and they have already shot it down. It has even been discussed on livestreams. It just doesn't fall in line with their current or future plans.

Edited September 6, 2014 by 43Emprah

[Azawarau]

Ok skip the cosmetic part and just make it an attachable boost to the frame

 

Anyone opposed to that or are people full of it?

[43Emprah]

Ok skip the cosmetic part and just make it an attachable boost to the frame

 

Anyone opposed to that or are people full of it?

It isn't about whether players would be opposed to it (I imagine very few would be), but about the fact that the devs have stated they don't want to implement the arcane helmet stats in that way. Additional stat building and customization, is what they want to explore with the focus system.

Until we know more about what the focus system will entail, these threads are kind of beating a dead horse. People were making this suggestion BEFORE the stats were removed from helmets.

[Sinkaro]

My biggest issue is that the cosmetic helmets have the same building requirements of the arcanes. Stat-changing helmets, I get 2 neurodes and an orokin cell, but cosmetic?

 

That's just my pet peeve.

[43Emprah]

My biggest issue is that the cosmetic helmets have the same building requirements of the arcanes. Stat-changing helmets, I get 2 neurodes and an orokin cell, but cosmetic?

 

That's just my pet peeve.

To be honest, I'm glad they are build-able at all, and that DE seems to be keeping that model moving forward. They easily could have gone the way of being platinum only. I can see why it might feel "uneven", for lack of a better word, though.

[Xarteros]

People were making this suggestion BEFORE the stats were removed from helmets.

I certainly was, but i figured reposting (old thread is deleted) might inspire some change. Doubtful;, but you never know

We have the stats. DE said it's too unfair to take the stats away by force, I say it's unfair to take the option away from new players, since so many Arcane helmets are really powerful and change the entire feel of playing. How would you feel if you were a new player and you find out you have half the options of an old player? its not that bad yet, but it's getting slowly worse

it's bad enough that there's an entire arsenal of weapons & mods that new players can't get (ever, for the most of them), and some are actually pretty good. I just want exclusive content to be cosmetic only, and at the very least i'd like to use the Arcane stats i like with the cosmetic helmet i prefer.

[Noble_Cactus]

admins want to remove all the bonus for the cosmetics, that is why they removed the arcane helmets.

so there is a 0% chance stats on cosmetics will ever return.

 

No, the issue was that people were sometimes forced to use helmets they thought looked ugly just because they had good stats on them. I don't see any harm in adding invisible, customizable stat boosts. In fact, I don't know why it wasn't added before, except for DE needing to make quick cash on Arcane helmets. People have been suggesting a system like this for a long time now.

 

As for attaining the sigils? Quest rewards. Alerts. Survival/Defense/Excavation drops or rewards. There are a lot of avenues for implementing something like these sigils.

Edited September 6, 2014 by Noble_Cactus

[43Emprah]

I certainly was, but i figured reposting (old thread is deleted) might inspire some change. Doubtful;, but you never know

We have the stats. DE said it's too unfair to take the stats away by force, I say it's unfair to take the option away from new players, since so many Arcane helmets are really powerful and change the entire feel of playing. How would you feel if you were a new player and you find out you have half the options of an old player? its not that bad yet, but it's getting slowly worse

it's bad enough that there's an entire arsenal of weapons & mods that new players can't get (ever, for the most of them), and some are actually pretty good. I just want exclusive content to be cosmetic only, and at the very least i'd like to use the Arcane stats i like with the cosmetic helmet i prefer.

Oh, you won't get any argument from me on things being locked away from new players. I am a veteran, but I know what it feels like to join a game late, and see things you can never obtain. It certainly stings. Luckily, aside form the 3 founder exclusives, and possibly the Braton/Lato Vandal, everything is subject to make a return. 

I don't want you to get the impression that I am attacking your thread, or that I even disagree with you. I have ZERO issue with helm stats being an invisible addon/relic/artifact/sigil/rune/anyoftheothernamespeoplehavesuggestedforages. I just know the devs have stated they don't want to do this, and that there is a strong likelihood, that the reasoning behind that is due to the plans they have for the focus system.

I can't help but get the sense that the focus system has the potential to overshadow any benefits alt helms added to the game.  That of course, remains to be seen. 

I will say that I wish the devs would communicate their reasoning a bit more clearly, outside of "we don't want cosmetics to have stats".  Even though I certainly agree with them on that stance.

I guess the TL;DR for my posts in this thread would be: 

"Let's see what the focus system brings us, and if these alt helm stats will even matter in that climate."

[Trenggiling]

I like mine better.

"Warframe Essences (An Arcane Helmet Rework)"

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/298129-warframe-essences-an-arcane-helmet-rework/

Edited September 6, 2014 by Trenggiling

[Similon]

I like mine better.

"Warframe Essences (An Arcane Helmet Rework)"

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/298129-warframe-essences-an-arcane-helmet-rework/

Shameless self promotion aside, your idea always struck me as too grind-inclined, aswell as somewhat limiting and likely to facilitate elitism. Anyway, this isn't the place for that discussion.

 

As for the OPs, I'd approve of a simple, non-telegraphed Stat method, no visible signs what so ever. Mostly so I could stick with Swindle on my Loki.

 

As for the suggested use of the Clan Emblem slot - I worked hard for a good 15-20 minutes on my Clan Emblem! I want to show that off :P

[Edgedemon]

this is why i'm saying to actually SEPARATE the stats from the cosmetics. The main reason I suggested to put it in the Clan Badge section is because it'd be easy for them to slip it in there, since it's only got one item in it. They could just make a separate tab for it in the arsenal menu.

As they stand, they are like non-upgradable corrupt mods, but i suggest they should be unique to each warframe, like the original arcane bonuses. they would still be different to mods, allowing a greater variety of choice for players to gear their frame toward.

 

really? from your post it reads more like "i want to be able to get their rewards without buying them"

[Xarteros]

Oh, you won't get any argument from me on things being locked away from new players. I am a veteran, but I know what it feels like to join a game late, and see things you can never obtain. It certainly stings. Luckily, aside form the 3 founder exclusives, and possibly the Braton/Lato Vandal, everything is subject to make a return. 

I don't want you to get the impression that I am attacking your thread, or that I even disagree with you. I have ZERO issue with helm stats being an invisible addon/relic/artifact/sigil/rune/anyoftheothernamespeoplehavesuggestedforages. I just know the devs have stated they don't want to do this, and that there is a strong likelihood, that the reasoning behind that is due to the plans they have for the focus system.

I can't help but get the sense that the focus system has the potential to overshadow any benefits alt helms added to the game.  That of course, remains to be seen. 

I will say that I wish the devs would communicate their reasoning a bit more clearly, outside of "we don't want cosmetics to have stats".  Even though I certainly agree with them on that stance.

I guess the TL;DR for my posts in this thread would be: 

"Let's see what the focus system brings us, and if these alt helm stats will even matter in that climate."

Well, Focus might ruin this, but that's something DE should consider for Arcane helmets already. at the absolute least, they should make a cosmetic override for people who want the bonus but not the look

 

 

As for the suggested use of the Clan Emblem slot - I worked hard for a good 15-20 minutes on my Clan Emblem! I want to show that off :P

Haha that same thought lead me to come up with the idea of a minor bonus for wearing clan symbols. it'd be awesome to have a mini reward for working with clanmates more than with randoms

 

 

really? from your post it reads more like "i want to be able to get their rewards without buying them"

I have all the arcane helmets, none of which i bought. I crafted them all. i have most of the non-arcane helmets too. I want OTHER PEOPLE to get the rewards, instead of missing out forever.

[Guest Tehnoobshow]

Vanguard needs to be permanently removed from the game. Under no circumstance should a Rhino be able to run as fast as a Loki.

[Edgedemon]

I have all the arcane helmets, none of which i bought. I crafted them all. i have most of the non-arcane helmets too. I want OTHER PEOPLE to get the rewards, instead of missing out forever.

 

is not really that anyone who really want them is missing out of them, as it stands now ANY arcane in market is selling cheaper than the market price of the regular versions, you can get 3 arcane helmets for the 75p market price of a regular one.

 

P.D.: have almost all arcane too and hardly use any which is the only reason i haven't feel the need to buy the rest

[Azawarau]

It isn't about whether players would be opposed to it (I imagine very few would be), but about the fact that the devs have stated they don't want to implement the arcane helmet stats in that way. Additional stat building and customization, is what they want to explore with the focus system.

Until we know more about what the focus system will entail, these threads are kind of beating a dead horse. People were making this suggestion BEFORE the stats were removed from helmets.

The whole idea is to even the score for players that dont have arcane helmets without entering cosmetics

[sneakatone]

people suggested helmet mods to get the corrupt like stats and stuff but idk if DE will ever do it.

[DSpite]

Vanguard needs to be permanently removed from the game. Under no circumstance should a Rhino be able to run as fast as a Loki.

 

I still fail to see why this old argument holds any water. If people are "sprinting" around maps they are doing it wrong. My Rhino with a Glaive can keep up with ANY team. We have better mechanics then "sprinting".

[Myocarde]

I strongly support this.

 

It was suggested numerous times before (by me included), to just separate stats from helmets and let a player whether to choose from numerous upside+downside combos or don't use them at all. Some people would say that Focus will replace this, but we still don't know how Focus system will work, as devs re-did the whole concept a couple of times already. Plus, i'm all up for more diversity in playstyles and stats. Actually, would love to see items with stats, skins with stats. Just make the stat options available to all players, so no accusations of Warframe being "pay 2 win" could be made.

Edited September 7, 2014 by Myocarde

[Xarteros]

Just make the stat options available to all players, so no accusations of Warframe being "pay 2 win" could be made.

unfortunately it's not even a matter of 'pay-2-win', since you can't buy the exclusive weapon variants, mods or stat helmets (other than player trade). It's a matter of 'start-playing-ages-ago-2-win'