Einde's Tweak Suggestions (Today : Nekros).

[LascarCapable]

Hello ! In this thread I am trying to buff or rebalance things, and you guys will tell me what do you think about ! YES ! YOU !... Well, that was a bit awkward, so how should I start...

 

So yeah, you may notice right now, but as a moderator I do care about balance between Warframes and stuff. And it seems that it's a topic where you guys loves to talk about. So I'll try my best give nice and simple tweaks with good arguments in order to make underrated or weak frame a bit more valuable.

 

 

Frost :

 

Since the nerf of Snowglobe, I hardly see one. Once absolutely needed in every defense related games, his three other powers seemed to not be good enough to may worth the use. The nerf of his only "valuable" power really bought him at the bottom of the pit, and the buffs of his three other powers didn't helped that much. Let's tweak that.

 

Freeze :

- Can now punch through ennemies.

- The next time some damage is dealt to a frozen ennemy, it'll deal 300% more damage.

 

Freeze badly needed an AoE effect (freezing ennemies one by one isn't good), and the +300% damage gimmick will reinforce that skill's power against heavy ennemies. I think this is a nice addition, we never saw that kind of mechanic actually... Or at least I've never heard of. Just remember to hit hard when you're freezing something in order to make that one-two punch combo working at it's best. By the way : thanks for Blatantfool for giving me the punch through idea.

 

Ice Wave :

- Can now be used without interrupting reloading or shooting.

- Frozen ennemies caught in the AoE will transmit frozen status to nearby ennemies. However, it won't unfreeze or dealing additional damage to them.

 

Why ? Why not ? I though that making that power easier to use would be nice, and a bit of synergy seemed good.

 

Snow Globe :

 

- Ennemies frozen in the snow globe will be frozen for an extended time.

 

More synergy, more happiness. Seemed to be a good idea too.

 

Avalanche :

- Extended freeze duration (would be something like 8 to 10 seconds at max rank).

- The next time some damage is dealt to a frozen ennemy, it'll deal 300% more damage.

 

And here we go ! Okay, it's yet another CC skill, but it works kinda differently, hey... Like freeze : bring a high damage weapon when you will deal with your popcicles.

 

Volt :

 

I won't make a bunch of changes here. The frame overall seemed fine to me until I realised that Electric Shield was a bit too much specialised when it's about his offensive abilities. I recently discovered that the stacking +50% electric damage may not be as good as it seems due to the way it's calculated (I doesn't seem to count elemental damage), and also the skill is really much more powerful with crit weapons. It's a shame, because we have a lot of weapons in WF, but with Volt we would only use a few to get that insane +200% critical damage bonus. Also, Overload.

 

Electric shield :

 

- Instead of a +50% damage bonus, weapons would get a +15% critical chance bonus that can be stacked.

 

That bonus is ADDITIVE, not multiplicative. So using ES with a 5% crit weapon would give you 20% crits. With 7 shields (350 energy) you would be able to get 105% crits. I think that this would make a lot more weapons usable with ES than before... As well as making some weapons OP as crap. But heh. I don't think that we can get over 200% crits, right ? Right ?...

 

Overload :

 

- Electrical componements are now usable even if they are destroyed.

 

May not fix everything, but that's a start.

 

Excalibur :

 

That dude became a really hot topic recently, and for a good reason (everything sped up due to a unintended change from de dev team). Excaliburs is a prime exemple of what we can call a "one trick pony" : he's got one exceedingly powerful ability, but the others are not really good. Like most of all one-trick ponies, his only powerful ability will be tuned down (it's was already previewed to make Radial Blind subject to a line of sight), and his other abilities will be buffed. He just have to make sure that it'll be nice made.

 

Slash Dash :

 

- Damage now scales with your melee weapon's power.

- Each ennemies hit by slash dash counts toward your melee combo multiplier.

 

Hysteria does the same : I think it would be a nice idea to apply that change to Slash Dash. That power is more handled as an additional melee attack, so I can hardly see a reason to not consider Slash Dash as a full one.

 

Super Jump :

 

- During super jump, guns get +50% damage bonus, melee weapons gets +300% damage bonus (also applied to slash dash and heavy impact).

 

I think everyone will get the point here. You use super jump to take a better view of the battlefield and smack down everything, and you can also use the jump attack of your melee weapon to wreck the ennemy you'll fall on. You can also use slash dash in with for an insanely powerful aerial melee attack. The bonus is kept as long as you won't touch the ground.

 

Radial Javelin :

 

- Damages of each javelins now scales with your melee weapon's power.

 

Simple, yet efficient. Bring a Mag with bullet attractor for insane damages to a unique ennemy.

 

ADDITIONAL NOTE : Consider the line of sight nerf of radial blind being applied with these changes (not saying that other Excalibur's power will gain line of sight, just saying that RB would be nerfed as well as other abilities would be buffed the way I wrote it).

 

Ember

 

Especially since Oberon's buff, Ember is considered by most of the community as one of the weakest frame available. Reasons ? Most of her power are just number based, her powers have too big constraints and her CC ability is limited. The community also miss the good old times where Overheat was still available. Accelerant is just not useful enough to make people forget about it. Some work has to be done here.

 

Accelerant :

- Gives also 50% chances to trigger a fire proc (Heat damage's unique status effect is a Heat DoT, which deals 50% of your weapon or power's base damage per tick (7 ticks in 6 seconds)). Can be triggered without heat damage. Heat DoT damages are based on damage dealt (1000k damage will trigger 500 damage DoT for 6 seconds).

 

This would make Accelerant a bit more useful if you have no fire element equiped, and fire based weapons even more fearsome also.

 

Fire Blast :

- Will also inflict DoT for ennemies inside the ring.

- Will ragdoll ennemies on cast, knocking them rather far away.

- Will inflict also 500/700/800/1000 damage on cast with 100% fire proc.

 

The second idea seems kinda contradictory, bu I though it would be fun to see and use. Ragdoll makes everything better.

 

World on Fire :

 

- On cast, surrounding ennemies will be also make ennemies panic (like Nekros's Terrify). While panicked, enemies will not attack and will haphazardly flee, however there won't be any armor malus like the current Terrify.

 

I think that makes sense. Seriously guys... The world is on fire, everything goes boom around you and the floor burst fire around. You know what you do ? You pee in your pants and run for your life ! Here it's the same idea.

 

Nekros :

 

Nekros is an oddball among the Warframes. Weak, yet so useful... Nekros is ONLY use for his 3rd ability, Desecrate, making him able to reveal more loot : for the community, this is his only usefulness, ans the only reason why he's bought in a game. The way his powers are made does not allow him to take profit from both Desecrate and his other abilities, making him extremely boring to play if you want to play like a support (aka how the meta said Nekros should be played). I think it's time to make Nekros's job a bit more fun.

 

Soul Punch :

 

- Acts now as a unique projectile with infinite enemy punch through (deals up to 500 impact damages in a straight line). Still keeps his range and explode when hits a wall.

- Ragdoll all enemies in the path.

- Explosion now ragdolls enemies as well.

 

Ragdoll fest ! Wierd ranges, but ragdoll fest ! Yo dawg, I heard you like ragdoll ?...

 

Terrify :

 

- Instead of an armor decrease, gives a direct damage resistance debuff : Ennemies caught by terrify will be dealt 10/20/30/50% more damage for the duration of the skill. Affected by power strenght.

- No more enemy limit.

 

"No more enemy limit"... THIS will definitely make Terrify way more useful than it is, as Nekros is oftenly run with a max range mode.

 

Shadow of the dead :

 

- Number of ennemies buffed to 5/6/8/10.

                       - or -

- No more ennemy limit, spawn all enemies dead inside the spawn radius, and spawn radius buffed to 15m.

 

I don't know what's better. The first one is simple yet welcomed IMO, while the second one looks nicer but would be hard to put in game.

 

What do you guys think about that so far ?

Edited September 21, 2014 by Einde
Added Nekros.

[Lukap99]

FIRST! Eheheh... Sorry

Einde, you might want to click "follow" in the upper right corner.

 

EDIT: Toime for some feedback.


Regarding all suggestions, you might want to take power efficiency mods into account, which are very common to be found on caster frames like Volt.

 

VOLT

Using ES on an 5% crit weapon will get 25% crits? Won't it be 30%?

 

Other than that, I personally think that ES is fine as it is. Even if it does seem a bit out of place along with speed.

Perhaps Volt could carry the shield and push forward?

What do you mean be "electrical components are now usable even if they are destroyed"? Do you mean if we use overload the lights will still be on? Or does overload destroy consoles?

I do agree that Overload becomes a lot less useful when there are no electronics around. To compensate, how about overload treating ES as a source of electricity. Maybe even treat other Volts as sources of electricity, because why not?
Also Tesla balls.

FROST

I don't actually own a Frost, but I do plan on getting one, so excuse me if I'm mistaken on anything.

Freeze

I like your suggested changes.

 

Ice wave

I like the synergy it provides with freeze. Good job on this.

 

Snow globe

More synergy :D

Avalanche

 

So, basically a AoE freeze?

Ehh, knowing how most people mod their frames I'd say that this change would leave a lot of people not using freeze.

Just remove the 3X damage and it'll be okay.

Maybe as an additional effect it can create a "blizzard" that follows Frost around that slows down enemies?

 

Edited September 13, 2014 by Lukap99

[VKhaun]

Frost is put forward as a hybrid tank/mage.

I hate to talk down about so many suggestions all over the board, but I really don't think giving him free stuff like Oberon is going to fix him. If you look at how they changed Snowglobe; it's based on timing and positioning now. No, it's not as good as it was before, but you can still get a lot of use out of it if you WAIT and cast it when it will take lots of incoming fire rather than putting it up in advance, then start killing stuff. That's the treatment his other powers need. Gameplay checks where you have to think about when and where you cast them, not just free stuff. Free stuff makes him an unfairly tanky mage, rather than a hybrid.

 

Volt is put forward as "an alternative to gunplay".

I find it really impossible to have a conversation beyond saying that your ideas are really cool. Broken electronics should still be hooked up to whatever their power source was. Electric shield stacking would put power cost in line with damage and setup so I like that, too. In the end though, I wish they'd go back and make him a true alternative or or change his description.

Edited September 13, 2014 by VKhaun

[vaugahn]

Well, I don't play Frost so I can't really comment on those. Volt is my main though, so here's my take on that:

 

Electric Shield: Adding crit chance, yes. Adding it like that, no. Guaranteed red crits on every shot for certain weapons seems a bit over the top, at least in my opinion.

 

Overload: This would be good. Right now Overload suffers in long missions because you end up burning out the limited amount of devices you have, and then it ends out weak. I'd also like some way to see what exactly counts as an electric device, because it seems totally random.

 

In the end though, I wish they'd go back and make him a true alternative or or change his description.

 

Change his description. Volt is in a good spot right now balance-wise.

Edited September 13, 2014 by vaugahn

[noveltyhero]

Not sure if electric shield needs a buff. It already does its job as a shield really well :)

 

Ice wave:

-Should go in a cone, starting from where it is now ending up much larger and dealing more damage towards the end

-Slows down enemies

-Higher so it hits all drones

 

Avalanche:

-Based on duration mods

-Completely freezes enemies for duration

-When duration stops they explode as they do now

 

Freeze:

-Completely freezes enemies in a small AOE

-When they break out of it they are slowed by 15%(flat)

 

Overload:

-Causes enemies electrocuted to spazz out and move much slowly (if at all) with robots being completely disabled for 5 seconds after being hit

[LascarCapable]

Not sure if electric shield needs a buff. It already does its job as a shield really well :)

 

I'm more seeing this as a tweak than a buff.

 

If the crit rate value added is to high, I may lower it of course, or hardcap it. I chose 25% because IMO 100% crit rate for 200 energy seemed fair. Of course there's people who brings efficiency builds, but well...

[noveltyhero]

I'm more seeing this as a tweak than a buff.

 

If the crit rate value added is to high, I may lower it of course, or hardcap it. I chose 25% because IMO 100% crit rate for 200 energy seemed fair. Of course there's people who brings efficiency builds, but well...

Not sure, because an extra 25% is seemingly a buff. It would cause a lot of weapons to easily get red crits :/

 

In my opinion the current way is just fine, Volt has been ironed out rather well for the most part, Overload needs some buffs and that's it

[Wurdyburd]

I'm a supporter for most of these changes, though they need tweaking.

Electric Shield granting 100% crit chance to any weapon is overpowered, even for 200 energy [unmodded for max efficiency], especially for weapons with an already high crit chance. Furthermore, the recently introduced Nukor, while having barely any crit chance at all, at max value, has a crit multiplier of 8.8x. Guaranteed crits on that would be ridiculous. Weapons like the Synapse would mow down everything.

 

I like the suggested changes to Frost. Cold damage is kind of lame in this game since it's strong against almost nothing. I agree with Noveltyhero's suggestion that Ice Wave should be in a cone shape rather than be limited to ground movement; either that, or make the ice crystals much taller.

 

As for Overload: since Electricity's proc is all about arcing to nearby enemies, why not change Overload to have a range that's increased for each enemy hit? Or rather, enemies outside the initial area of effect have the potential to be hit if electricity arcs from the enemies within the area, to enemies outside the area, up to two electrical arcs. The extra range would give a little bit of a boost to the power since it's so largely dependant on how many electrical components are in your vicinity.

[LukeAura]

I kind of agree with your opinion there on Frost. When they nerf a frame who is used because only one of his skills hold value, they should bring the rest of him up simultaneously. That's why it's called a crutch though isn't it, because one needs a crutch to stand when they can't stand on their own. Take away the crutch, and they simply fall over. 

I agree Ice Wave needs a buff as well, although I'm not sure yours is quite enough, not to say it wouldn't be helpful, but it doesn't quite solve its core issue.
While making it more flexible with the free reload/shoot idea is good, Ice Wave is actually at its weakest on Frost. It would actually be a better skill on literally any other frame. Because Ice Wave is position dependent, it is linear and thus needs a frame that can manoeuvre to put enemies in a line in order to be maximized. And Frost is entirely about creating his own position instead of finding an optimal one, he is simply too slow to make a linear short lasting Ice Wave work. I'd just make it a conal ability with better tracking so it's not dependent on lining up enemies.
 
 

[Azawarau]

For frost the freezing in snow globe isnt really needed since stacking the globe leaves enemies motionless already

 

Avalanche is a touchy topic considering the effectiveness of snowglobe alone in short range CC power

 

It might make frost once again too good at defending the pod

 

Adding crit to shield may be over the top but i dont know enough to say on that one

 

The part about overload is all of the yes though

[LascarCapable]

Edited the part about electric shield. Now the shield gives +15% crit rate instead of 25%. Still stackable and acting additively. Of course there's still no more +50% damage bonus as electric damage.

[Azawarau]

Edited the part about electric shield. Now the shield gives +15% crit rate instead of 25%. Still stackable and acting additively. Of course there's still no more +50% damage bonus as electric damage.

No further comments on volts end then

 

EDIT

 

EErrrrr on second thought

 

Losing elec is kinda heavy

Edited September 13, 2014 by Azawarau

[LascarCapable]

You lose the damage bonus for a fixed and additive 15% critical chance bonus, so a 5% crit chance weapon would get 20% crit chance since it's additive and not multiplicative. You guys told me that 25% was too much, so I put that to 15%. But if it's not enough, I guess 20% would do the trick.

After that yeah, you would be able to get some insane damages with weapons like Nukor. It's a part of the idea. With those changes you can "crit build" weapons that you couldn't crit build before, you can try to not put point strike or pistol manoeuver in your weapon build, you can try to make some weapons like Latron Prime dealing more stable damages... It's a part of the idea too.

... It also makes Soma freaky. But Soma is already freaky.

[Azawarau]

You lose the damage bonus for a fixed and additive 15% critical chance bonus, so a 5% crit chance weapon would get 20% crit chance since it's additive and not multiplicative. You guys told me that 25% was too much, so I put that to 15%. But if it's not enough, I guess 20% would do the trick.

After that yeah, you would be able to get some insane damages with weapons like Nukor. It's a part of the idea. With those changes you can "crit build" weapons that you couldn't crit build before, you can try to not put point strike or pistol manoeuver in your weapon build, you can try to make some weapons like Latron Prime dealing more stable damages... It's a part of the idea too.

... It also makes Soma freaky. But Soma is already freaky.

And then the Soma prime enters...

[LascarCapable]

Added Excalibur.

 

 

Excalibur :

 

That dude became a really hot topic recently, and for a good reason (everything sped up due to a unintended change from de dev team). Excaliburs is a prime exemple of what we can call a "one trick pony" : he's got one exceedingly powerful ability, but the others are not really good. Like most of all one-trick ponies, his only powerful ability will be tuned down (it's was already previewed to make Radial Blind subject to a line of sight), and his other abilities will be buffed. He just have to make sure that it'll be nice made.

 

Slash Dash :

 

- Damage now scales with your melee weapon's power.

- Each ennemies hit by slash dash counts toward your melee combo multiplier.

 

Hysteria does the same : I think it would be a nice idea to apply that change to Slash Dash. That power is more handled as an additional melee attack, so I can hardly see a reason to not consider Slash Dash as a full one.

 

Super Jump :

 

- During super jump, guns get +50% damage bonus, melee weapons gets +300% damage bonus (also applied to slash dash and heavy impact).

 

I think everyone will get the point here. You use super jump to take a better view of the battlefield and smack down everything, and you can also use the jump attack of your melee weapon to wreck the ennemy you'll fall on. You can also use slash dash in with for an insanely powerful aerial melee attack. The bonus is kept as long as you won't touch the ground.

 

Radial Javelin :

 

- Damages of each javelins now scales with your melee weapon's power.

 

Simple, yet efficient. Bring a Mag with bullet attractor insane damages.

 

ADDITIONAL NOTE : Consider the line of sight nerf of radial blind being applied with these changes (not saying that other Excalibur's power will gain line of sight, just saying that RB would be nerfed as well as other abilities would be buffed the way I wrote it).

[Lukap99]

And then the Soma prime enters...

 

Honestly, we don't need another OP gun like the Boltor Prime.

Everybody remembers the boltor, right? If we were to use it today, it would be a pretty good gun both damage and balance wise.

But DE had the bright idea to make it even more powerful, even when it was borderline OP.

And now we have Rhino Prime's with Boltor Prime's running around everywhere.

We don't need another Boltor Prime. Seriously.

Edited September 14, 2014 by Lukap99

[LascarCapable]

Please stay on the topic.

[Azawarau]

For excalibur the changes to his 1 is exactly what he needs

 

Really make him a melee frame

 

the change to super jump makes me think people will just grab a launcher and Do nothing but super jump for constant 3x dmg though its probably not an issue considering how few shots youre likely to get in that time

 

Radial being affected by melee weapon is pretty wonky though

 

For an ultimate to scale with a weapon directly like that

 

Not sure what kinds of numbers wed be seeing here

[LascarCapable]

 

the change to super jump makes me think people will just grab a launcher and Do nothing but super jump for constant 3x dmg though its probably not an issue considering how few shots youre likely to get in that time

 

The x3 damage bonus is only given to melee weapons (so in order to try a jump attack on an ennemy). Other weapons including launcher will only get +50% damage bonus.

[noveltyhero]

Super Jump, lifts up enemies around him. 3m radius (flat). They lose their balance and fall over.

 

RJ, if you hold it down, the circle begins to cone up, this is when Excalibur charges up allowing you to send your javelins all down one corridor, assuming you don't die before that happens :/

[Lukap99]

Super Jump, lifts up enemies around him. 3m radius (flat). They lose their balance and fall over.

 

I love it!

 

RJ, if you hold it down, the circle begins to cone up, this is when Excalibur charges up allowing you to send your javelins all down one corridor, assuming you don't die before that happens :/

 

H-How did you?

I literally had the exact same thought. Literally.

Is EVERYONE on the forums PSYCHIC?

But yeah, being able to concentrate the javelins in one direction would be neat.

Perhaps if you let it cone up in an single line Excalibur throws one javelin at an enemy which explodes into more javelins. Like Oberon's smite, except more powerful. And that one enemy is dealt immense damage.

 

[noveltyhero]

Ohh yeah, Einde could put spoilers on older frames? Such as Frost for now :)

[Azawarau]

The x3 damage bonus is only given to melee weapons (so in order to try a jump attack on an ennemy). Other weapons including launcher will only get +50% damage bonus.

Thats seems alot better

 

Maybe add an extra radial slam boost or something for real

 

/Sunglasess

 

Impact

[LascarCapable]

Ohh yeah, Einde could put spoilers on older frames? Such as Frost for now :)

 

Doing it right now.

[Wurdyburd]

Excalibur's changes to make him more melee-oriented would be great. As it is, the starting frames consist of one "well-rounded" frame, and two casters. Though I advocate actually changing one of them, having one that's advertised to be melee-driven would be useful.

Outside of that, player progression with said changes: since melee weapons are actually semi-balanced in terms of when players get them compared to how powerful they are, it would actually help Excalibur scale through the game properly, perhaps more so than any other frame.

 

As a bit of a change however: make all melee-dependent damage be based on the weapon's natural damage type, with or without the elemental damage that could be added with mods. Rather than using a Skana, he should also use the actual weapon he has equipped, for both Slash Dash and Radial Javelin. Though they would be more of a visual change, I'm sure that many, many players would have no qualms about launching a storm of hammers and Galatines, especially with Noveltyhero's suggestion of directional RJ control.