Jump to content
Jade Shadows: Share Bug Reports and Feedback Here! ×

So You Can Pay To Be Twice As Powerful?

Jrgsubzero

By Jrgsubzero,
in General Discussion

 Share

Recommended Posts

Habataki

Habataki

Posted
Posted (edited)

...Good grief...glad we didn't have PvP mode yet, or this conversation will never end.

...I wonder how the dev feels when someone just want everything in game for free, didn't want to pay any cent, and hope the dev will be able to do anything and solve any problem occurs without any budget.

...Free to play, and didn't care how the dev will live without money? My... I'm glad I didn't become part of them.

 

...And I didn't remember when did they forced me to pay money for them, I just want to support their work so I paid. Is that guilty?

Edited by Habataki
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Venarge

Venarge

Posted
Posted

...Good grief...glad we didn't have PvP mode yet, or this conversation will never end.

...I wonder how the dev feels when someone just want everything in game for free, didn't want to pay any cent, and hope the dev will be able to do anything and solve any problem occurs without any budget.

...Free to play, and didn't care how the dev will live without money? My... I'm glad I didn't become part of them.

 

...And I didn't remember when did they forced me to pay money for them, I just want to support their work so I paid. Is that guilty?

 

People have to pay for DLC´s these days 20 bucks and still complain about a game, that is free but doesnt give you everything... I mean. I wouldnt care if the potatoes would never drop. But they do. You can get them with a little bit of patience. But it seems patience became a super power and is not common anymore....

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ulchishi

Ulchishi

Posted
Posted (edited)

...Good grief...glad we didn't have PvP mode yet, or this conversation will never end.

...I wonder how the dev feels when someone just want everything in game for free, didn't want to pay any cent, and hope the dev will be able to do anything and solve any problem occurs without any budget.

...Free to play, and didn't care how the dev will live without money? My... I'm glad I didn't become part of them.

 

...And I didn't remember when did they forced me to pay money for them, I just want to support their work so I paid. Is that guilty?

It's absolutely ok. Those who pay get benefits. That's pay to win, you know, pay to do better, pay to get something faster, spin the concept as you wish, the essence doesn't change. It's absolutely normal. I really can't see why pay to win is evil. Why? You guys seem to loathe this idea so much as if it was some kind of pestilence, yet you justify the devs for taking money. This is contradictory. I don't do this. I say that it's not normal, it's more, it's natural, just, to give those who pay benefits, to adopt a pay to win model. I really can't see why such a thing should be seen as compromising. I really can't.

Edited by Ulchishi
Link to comment
Share on other sites
__Kanade__

__Kanade__

Posted
Posted

I recently crafted Ash and crafted a Reactor to supercharge him, now I'm crafting Frost as well as another Reactor to supercharge him as well, all with not having to use any real money to buy Reactors. Though I did have to use real money to buy an extra frame slot to use Ash and sold Excaliber to make room for a new frame after I had finished leveling Ash, so Frost will be replacing Excalibers slot.

 

And if you have the reaction timing, you can get Reactors and Catalysts from the daily login by clicking on the icon the moment you see it instead of waiting for it to give you another ammo box. That's how I've been getting tons of bp's for both.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ulchishi

Ulchishi

Posted
Posted

It's absolutely ok. Those who pay get benefits. That's pay to win, you know, pay to do better, pay to get something faster, spin the concept as you wish, the essence doesn't change. It's absolutely normal. I really can't see why pay to win is evil. Why? You guys seem to loathe this idea so much as if it was some kind of pestilence, yet you justify the devs for taking money. This is contradictory. I don't do this. I say that it's not normal, it's more, it's natural, just, to give those who pay benefits, to adopt a pay to win model. I really can't see why such a thing should be seen as compromising. I really can't.

I'm quoting myself 'cause I think my post is too awesome and deserves a proper rebuttal.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Habataki

Habataki

Posted
Posted

I didn't mean to offend you or anything, Sir. My English isn't really that good so I might accidentally misread or misunderstand the content you've posted. If I've really did offended you. I apologize for that. I didn't really mean to do anything to offend you. My thought is that I didn't think it's a bad thing if I want to pay for my convenience, or is it? I'm not sure anymore.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
MiaovenWinter

MiaovenWinter

Posted
Posted (edited)

It's absolutely ok. Those who pay get benefits. That's pay to win, you know, pay to do better, pay to get something faster, spin the concept as you wish, the essence doesn't change. It's absolutely normal. I really can't see why pay to win is evil. Why? You guys seem to loathe this idea so much as if it was some kind of pestilence, yet you justify the devs for taking money. This is contradictory. I don't do this. I say that it's not normal, it's more, it's natural, just, to give those who pay benefits, to adopt a pay to win model. I really can't see why such a thing should be seen as compromising. I really can't.

 

Because competition. Competition is one of the two largest factors in the hate against P2W trends, and good faith competitive spirit is really big in a number of gaming circles (though it's debatable just how important it is among the gaming community at large). If you want to see a game taken seriously by the community in the eSports arena, then it won't have any compromising features/mechanics/items that can only be obtained by cash purchases. This is mostly seen in FPSs/TPSs/RPGs/MOBAs/etc., and there are clear tells when a game has gone P2W; say, in a FPS, an automatic rifle gets released for cash/IRL currency conversion, and it turns out to perform better than all the other automatic rifles currently in the game. It doesn't even have to be better under all conditions, just the ones that matter. Not only that, but it also starts to edge out other specialized weapons in other classes, such as semi-auto rifles, burst-fire rifles, sniper rifles, shotguns, whatever. Because this "overpowered" weapon invalidates such a large number of other weapons (or hypothetically, every other weapon in the game) on paper, every player who wants to game on a hardcore competitive level (read: official/unofficial leagues, ladders, scrims, tournaments) will want to use or be put under the impression that they need to use that weapon in order to have a chance at winning, all other things being equal. In this situation, the moniker "Pay to Win" is somewhat facetious, since buying the weapon itself doesn't automatically win you a match, you still have to use it. But it came to be known for lampooning the balancing issues of various video games, in accordance with internet humor.

 

On the other side of the spectrum, you can have a game like League of Legends, which, while not without its own balancing issues, has no such "P2W" item for IRL currency sale. All of the game's critical content can be accessed without paying a cent, and is generally well balanced for competitive play. Thus, you see the extremely large eSport fascination with LoL worldwide. Do note that the two games I just mentioned (our hypothetical FPS and League) are both online F2P non-retail games so as to draw parallels with Warframe.

 

Obviously, competition doesn't apply to Warframe since there is no direct PvP element. However, that's where the second largest factor comes into play: overall gameplay balance. There are a number of arguments for why balance matters big-time in PvE gamemodes; we had this discussion a lot in Mass Effect 3 Multiplayer, and I wouldn't mind going back to pull up some of those arguments and adjusting them for WF's circumstance. I figured your post was more generalized across all P2W arguments in gaming, not just those made for WF.

 

Also, you really need to back off Habataki; if you read his posts, his first language is clearly not English, and is in no way trying to troll you. Just cool down.

Edited by MiaovenWinter
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ulchishi

Ulchishi

Posted
Posted

I didn't mean to offend you or anything, Sir. My English isn't really that good so I might accidentally misread or misunderstand the content you've posted. If I've really did offended you. I apologize for that. I didn't really mean to do anything to offend you. My thought is that I didn't think it's a bad thing if I want to pay for my convenience, or is it? I'm not sure anymore.

My english isn't any better than yours, so I too have misunderstood your sentence. I'm really sorry to have attacked you. I give you my apologies.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ulchishi

Ulchishi

Posted
Posted (edited)

Because competition. Competition is one of the two largest factors in the hate against P2W trends, and good faith competitive spirit is really big in a number of gaming circles (though it's debatable just how important it is among the gaming community at large). If you want to see a game taken seriously by the community in the eSports arena, then it won't have any compromising features/mechanics/items that can only be obtained by cash purchases. This is mostly seen in FPSs/TPSs/RPGs/MOBAs/etc., and there are clear tells when a game has gone P2W; say, in a FPS, an automatic rifle gets released for cash/IRL currency conversion, and it turns out to perform better than all the other automatic rifles currently in the game. It doesn't even have to be better under all conditions, just the ones that matter. Not only that, but it also starts to edge out other specialized weapons in other classes, such as semi-auto rifles, burst-fire rifles, sniper rifles, shotguns, whatever. Because this "overpowered" weapon invalidates such a large number of other weapons (or hypothetically, every other weapon in the game) on paper, every player who wants to game on a hardcore competitive level (read: official/unofficial leagues, ladders, scrims, tournaments) will want to use or be put under the impression that they need to use that weapon in order to have a chance at winning, all other things being equal. In this situation, the moniker "Pay to Win" is somewhat facetious, since buying the weapon itself doesn't automatically win you a match, you still have to use it. But it came to be known for lampooning the balancing issues of various video games, in accordance with internet humor.

 

On the other side of the spectrum, you can have a game like League of Legends, which, while not without its own balancing issues, has no such "P2W" item for IRL currency sale. All of the game's critical content can be accessed without paying a cent, and is generally well balanced for competitive play. Thus, you see the extremely large eSport fascination with LoL worldwide. Do note that the two games I just mentioned (our hypothetical FPS and League) are both online F2P non-retail games so as to draw parallels with Warframe.

 

Obviously, competition doesn't apply to Warframe since there is no direct PvP element. However, that's where the second largest factor comes into play: overall gameplay balance. There are a number of arguments for why balance matters big-time in PvE gamemodes; we had this discussion a lot in Mass Effect 3 Multiplayer, and I wouldn't mind going back to pull up some of those arguments and adjusting them for WF's circumstance. I figured your post was more generalized across all P2W arguments in gaming, not just those made for WF.

 

Also, you really need to back off Habataki; if you read his posts, his first language is clearly not English, and is in no way trying to troll you. Just cool down.

I found what you wrote really interesting, I would like to read your thoughts about the gameplay balance in pve games.

About Habataki, I already made him my apologies and I re-iterate them, it was all my fault.

Edited by Ulchishi
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ulchishi

Ulchishi

Posted
Posted (edited)

Thank you for understanding me.

...Uhhh did I said it right? ' w ')?

I'm not English myself, I'm really sorry to have attacked you.

Probably this attitude is a leftover of my flaming habits on other forums T.T

Edited by Ulchishi
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Jeffrywinkles

Jeffrywinkles

Posted
Posted (edited)

Supercharging with potatoes doesn't make it twice as powerful either it just lets you have more mods on the raw damage doesn't increase.

hwat?!?!?!?!?

 

- unsupercharged HEK

 

maxed multi shot(15) 

maxed armor pen(9)

6 slots for an Element mod or other things

 

- supercharged HEK

 

maxed multi shot(15) 

maxed armor pen(9)

maxed dmg mod(9)

rank 3 fire/ele/ice mod(24)

leaving 3 points to rank another ele mod higher

 

feel free to correct me if im wrong but clearly one of these HEK's have more than doubled if not tripled in power.

 

i don't think orokin's are needed in the least bit(at the current games end game difficulty) but clearly your statement is flat out false.

Edited by Jeffrywinkles
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Tsoe

Tsoe

Posted
Posted

I don't really accept the Pay2Win term since there's no PVP(for now[?]), so there is nothing to win.

 

Got 3 catalyst, 1 reactor and making my third Warframe(Volt[sold], Ash[Maxed], Rhino[11~], Nyx[under Construction]. I've only been here for 2 weeks or so.

 

The could buff the weekend, so it'll attract players.

 

 

even with PVP the game wouldnt be pay to win since  the mods capacity will be locked at the same lvl for everyone

 

 

no no, it's just my two cent

 

who said pvp gonna come omg

 

my my

 

like it would bring millions of new players really? (maybe?)

Link to comment
Share on other sites
jebronlames_W

jebronlames_W

Posted
Posted

hwat?!?!?!?!?

 

- unsupercharged HEK

 

maxed multi shot(15) 

maxed armor pen(9)

6 slots for an Element mod or other things

 

- supercharged HEK

 

maxed multi shot(15) 

maxed armor pen(9)

maxed dmg mod(9)

rank 3 fire/ele/ice mod(24)

leaving 3 points to rank another ele mod higher

 

feel free to correct me if im wrong but clearly one of these HEK's have more than doubled if not tripled in power.

 

i don't think orokin's are needed in the least bit(at the current games end game difficulty) but clearly your statement is flat out false.

Yeah of course the damage increases if you put mods on it but if you don't it doesn't increase by supercharging

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Blatantfool

Blatantfool

Posted
Posted (edited)

Yeah of course the damage increases if you put mods on it but if you don't it doesn't increase by supercharging

 

 The only reason you can put that many mods is because you supercharged. Reread his example.

 

 Supercharging DOES increase the amount of power you can mod into your weapon.

 

 

 It is by no means P2W though. There is no content that is only beatable with Supercharged weaponry and frames. On top of this DE has liberally thrown out Orokin Items for free after things like livestreams AND we can get them randomly at any time.

Edited by Blatantfool
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share
Go to topic listing
×
×
  • Create New...