Boltor Prime: Killing The Game?

[_Fracture8]

Why is this being brought up again? I thought we all pretty much resigned after the Soma Prime was released .-.

[Azawarau]

Um....haven't 

 

 

 

1. Not really. If you nerf a weapon too much, it has the potential to become nonviable for some players as an option for taking down high level content.

 

3. Ummm...I've been arguing in favor of a considerably higher MR to justify the Boltor Prime's almost the entire time...

That wont make a difference when DE just adds power gaps instead of actual progression

 

Also when i said the two contradict eachother i was pointing out a massive flaw in your argument

 

Weapons like the boltor prime are needed but nerfing it restricts options?

 

The only thing it does is put in line with other weapons

 

What happens if we buff and add weapons to match or outdo the boltor?

 

-Powers start to get left behind

 

-Enemies take that much longer to give us the same amount of challenge

 

What happens if its nerfed?

 

-Other weapons are considered more viable by comparison

 

-Challenging gameplay comes sooner

 

-Powers/defenses arent creeped behind damage as much

 

Adding more to see prettier numers or go longer really isnt adding anything

 

Its an illusion of progress

[MirageKnight]

You're only NOW just replying to a post I made 2 months ago...?

[NocturneOfSolace]

I say nerf, down to 35-40 damage. Yup. And I love the Boltor and the Boltor P (for it's looks; it's a strong successor unlike a few other primes).

 

It's really way too powerful. When I read the in-game description, it suggested it had damage falloff, which would also have been a great balance and kind of interesting. But no, it does 55/bolt, has a rate of fire on par with the LMGs, unlimited range and accuracy is rarely an issue in this game.

 

Too good for us Tenno. Plz nerf.

And screw over thus who like to do 40-60 minute or 30+ wave runs in T4, good idea

There's a reason it's such a powerful weapon, it's designed for very late game content, thus why people are suggesting INCREASING THE MASTERY RANK AND NOT NERFS

Please, think things through before you post utterly absurd nonsense like that, unless you can come up with a good reason for it to be nerfed(you haven't, Boltor Prime wrecks everything on the starmap you might argue, but so does a well modded Karak, argument invalid) then be silent

[StinkyPygmy]

Is the BP killing the game?

no.

Does it highlight a lot of larger issues and does it have its flaws? 

Yep.

 

Powercreep weapons are only a symptom of a larger problem.

 

And screw over thus who like to do 40-60 minute or 30+ wave runs in T4, good idea

There's a reason it's such a powerful weapon, it's designed for very late game content, thus why people are suggesting INCREASING THE MASTERY RANK AND NOT NERFS

Please, think things through before you post utterly absurd nonsense like that, unless you can come up with a good reason for it to be nerfed(you haven't, Boltor Prime wrecks everything on the starmap you might argue, but so does a well modded Karak, argument invalid) then be silent

while I'm not saying the BP needs a nerf (maybe as small one at that) you can easily to 40-60+ runs with other less used weapons, especially if you build them right and put the effort in. It just requires more work. So nerfing the BP wouldn't kill long runs (despite DE stating the game is only balanced for around 40-50min runs anyway) as you can still go that long without one.

 

Boltor Prime isn't required by anymeans.

Edited December 28, 2014 by StinkyPygmy

[SIDESTRE4M]

Have to think about when I last used Boltor Prime/Soma. Then I have to think about when I last had problems with content.

 

But I think it's ridiculous, that Boltor Prime is MR0 while the normal Boltor is XP locked at MR2. At least after prime access with boltor prime is gone, they could raise the MR to at least MR6 like they did with Soma.

[VDeorsum]

agreed, and increase the MR of soma prime too

[Omiroth]

Hi everyone, to kick this off I'm going to share a story about two friends I made on Warframe. Being a relatively secluded player and seeing this happen twice really has me worried.

So I was levelling the Silva & Aegis / Miter on Appolodorus (That really common survival mission on Mercury) about a week after U14 hit. It was here that two almost completely new Tenno joined my match. After a getting a conversation started and saving each others arses on more than one occasion it wasn't long until we were friends and running through the solar system together.

 

About a week further on from that, one of the guys asks me what his next primary should be. He just got a $5 plat pack and wanted his first Prime weapon. He told me that almost everyone else he asked recommended the Boltor Prime since he just hit MR2, I simply said that it was entirely his choice and that he should go for what he thinks is the coolest. 

 

Soon after he was rocking his Boltor he got from the market for 45p. Not long after the other friend saw how beast the weapon was and got one of his own. Progress through the Solar system pretty much tripled after they got them somewhat levelled.

 

Now here's where the problem starts. Every weapon they got after the Boltor Prime, they simply said "wasn't as good" "it's too weak for me" "who the hell would use this?!" etc etc. They had gotten so used to the BP thats pretty much all they could use.

 

About another 2 weeks after this. They pretty much dissapeared from the game entirely. I recently caught one of them doing the back to school event and messaged them "Hey, where have you run off to?" "haven't seen you in ages, we should do a few runs sometime :)" Only to be met with "meh this games is pretty boring now". I asked why and he said "well every mission i run is repetitive or too easy, the Boltor prime just owns everything and i don't see the point in getting anything new". I was gobsmacked, in four weeks these two people had gone from enthusiastic players to ghosts, didn't even make it to MR5. I have personally never gotten the BP just to avoid this type of scenario from happening to myself.

 

Seriously, one of the strongest endgame weapons is available to "fresh out of the oven" Tenno at a measley average cost of 50p?! It's insanity! It's driven two really close friends away from a game we used to love playing together. The fact that the BP is available at MR2 means that newcomers can take a shortcut through the entire Warframe experience straight to endgame territory. This screws everyone over. DE misses out on potential plat purchases, the newcomers get sick of the game and abandon it, and for those of us left wondering where everyone ran off to... well yeah. They're gone.

 

Please fix this DE. Just change the MR requirement to 7 or something higher. One of the strongest weapons in the game should not be made available so early and so cheap.

 

That was painful to read, really it was.

I know the Boltor Prime takes a lot of flak, that it makes the game too easy, that it's too powerful, that it's used and abused and everyone's had enough of it.

And I get it, I've been with those people who just spam it all mission long and I end up just watching them do everything, maybe collecting some loot or picking them up off the ground if they get caught by something.

The simple truth is that Boltor Prime does make everything really easy, but then again it's supposed to do that, it's supposed to be an end game item meant for high level zones. I won't even touch my Boltor Prime unless i'm doing high tier tower defense missions.

It is sad that Boltor Prime has such a low mastery restriction and that pay-to-win players can simply pick one up from anyone on the trading channel. I would support raising the mastery level on prime gear just to get them out of the hands of new players but that wouldn't completely solve the problem, it would just put a band-aid on it.

That being said, Warframe is not for everyone. I love this game it's amazing and it's (almost) everything I want in a game but I've known some people who just didn't enjoy it, for whatever reason. Sometimes it just comes down to personal preferances, So while I recommend this game to everyone I know I also keep in mind that about 75% of them won't want to play it for whatever reason.

Anyways...

While the Boltor Prime is incredibly powerful it's meant to be that way and while getting it early is an unfortunate reality that pay-to-win will do sometimes and ruin our new player base, it's the reason I played this game the way I did. so there's only so much that can be done and raising the mastery requirement will only fix so much but at least it's a start.

[(PSN)atpbx]

I have a Boltor Prime.

 

Its one of those guns that use and Forma, and then you realise that its pretty boring to use and you never go back to it unless you really need to smash something like an event.

 

Day to use is the Braton Prime for me when I play, maybe the Soma every now and again.

[NocturneOfSolace]

 

while I'm not saying the BP needs a nerf (maybe as small one at that) you can easily to 40-60+ runs with other less used weapons, especially if you build them right and put the effort in. It just requires more work. So nerfing the BP wouldn't kill long runs (despite DE stating the game is only balanced for around 40-50min runs anyway) as you can still go that long without one.

 

Boltor Prime isn't required by anymeans.

There aren't that many weapons that can compete with the DPS needed to kill a lvl 55 Corrupted Heavy Gunner quickly before it shoots you to death

[SIDESTRE4M]

Gamebalancing is around level 30 something. Nearly every weapon can handle that. The funny part is now: we have suvival, interception and defense. Even funnier: they don't end. They scale to a point where every unit gets replaced with a chuck norris clone.

 

So somewhere between level 30 and infinity is a point where people think there is an endgame. And there are people who think they need guns for that.

 

In fact, between 30 and infinity is a rather large area. Impossible to find a common ground. The strongest loadout defines the limit for as far as people can hold out.

There is not a point of need for a specific level because that sweet spot varies from player to player.

 

I dunno why I'm even writing all that stuff.

Edited December 30, 2014 by SIDESTRE4M

[Rorgal_Sina]

Gamebalancing is around level 30 something. Nearly every weapon can handle that. The funny part is now: we have suvival, interception and defense. Even funnier: they don't end. They scale to a point where every unit gets replaced with a chuck norris clone.

 

So somewhere between level 30 and infinity is a point where people think there is an endgame. And there are people who think they need guns for that.

 

In fact, between 30 and infinity is a rather large area. Impossible to find a common ground. The strongest loadout defines the limit for as far as people can hold out.

There is not a point of need for a specific level because that sweet spot varies from player to player.

 

I dunno why I'm even writing all that stuff.

But you're right. But the problem lies with the fact that players feel the need to have an extra-powerful weapon to handle those content better, when it's infinite.

 

Powercreep can go on as much as it wants at this point, and a base Damage of 1000000000000000000 won't be surprising. It's just unfair to other weapons, that's all. Infinite content (unintended endgame) doesn't justify anything....

 

Heck, if the strongest weapon ingame was let's say... a Braton with its current stats, then people would be saying how THAT is necessary for 1 hour survivals. It's the matter of how much damage is "enough", and DE spoiled us by giving us this powercreep. If it never existed, this arguement wouldn't either.

Edited December 30, 2014 by Rorgal_Sina

[SIDESTRE4M]

Remember when T3 defense had 15 waves fixed? That was a base for arguments about reasonable DPS.

 

However DE stated roundabout level 30 is the way to go. And I'm still wondering why they are creating easy to handly automatic weapons that can surpass this by far and even giving them a MR0 stamp on top of that.

 

No wonder people get accustomed to that. Expectations and thus new guns power level are rising until the bubble bursts and meta gets broken.

 

If I had a wish for 2015: META 2.0

 

Tidy up mastery rank requirements, build costs, max ammo pools, legacy balanced stuff, electricity mods for melee and so on. There are so many construction areas that I can't even dare to think why they burdened themselves with new ones (archwing, kubrows, PvP, rails...) and letting the core of the game slide.

 

Long story short:

I don't think Boltor Prime destroys something. If there are people who tie themselves to theoretical DPS charts and boring weapons for useless numbers they get out of infinite scaling content, that's their problem with their mindsetting. If they quit because the game got boring... let them quit.

Nerfing Boltor Prime won't make a change for that. There will be another gun or another loadout that will do the job instead. People will find ways.

[Rorgal_Sina]

Remember when T3 defense had 15 waves fixed? That was a base for arguments about reasonable DPS.

 

However DE stated roundabout level 30 is the way to go. And I'm still wondering why they are creating easy to handly automatic weapons that can surpass this by far and even giving them a MR0 stamp on top of that.

 

No wonder people get accustomed to that. Expectations and thus new guns power level are rising until the bubble bursts and meta gets broken.

 

If I had a wish for 2015: META 2.0

 

Tidy up mastery rank requirements, build costs, max ammo pools, legacy balanced stuff, electricity mods for melee and so on. There are so many construction areas that I can't even dare to think why they burdened themselves with new ones (archwing, kubrows, PvP, rails...) and letting the core of the game slide.

 

Long story short:

I don't think Boltor Prime destroys something. If there are people who tie themselves to theoretical DPS charts and boring weapons for useless numbers they get out of infinite scaling content, that's their problem with their mindsetting. If they quit because the game got boring... let them quit.

Nerfing Boltor Prime won't make a change for that. There will be another gun or another loadout that will do the job instead. People will find ways.

Ways? But wouldn't your Meta 2.0 fix that? Lol yeah, just imaginary, but still.

 

Instead of modding for the greatest DPS (there wouldn't be much of a gap), people would first choose weapons based on their playstyles, then mod the weapon to their liking, optimizing further to suit their gameplay and result in more fun.

 

Now, it's just- Step 1: Which does more damage. Step 2: Use the best mod setup. Step 3: Grind.

The fact that there's a best "anything" really is just lame. Balance pushes towards making "multiple solutions".

It's true, nerfing Boltor P won't solve anything- every weapon needs looking at. But it's impossible that DE would ever do such thing.

[DeMeritus]

People complaining about things being OP: Killing the game?

[StinkyPygmy]

There aren't that many weapons that can compete with the DPS needed to kill a lvl 55 Corrupted Heavy Gunner quickly before it shoots you to death

Then I must be dreaming when I drop one in a few shots with my attica, or one shot with a grinlock and sybaris.

Can't forget the good old supra, although to be fair I had to put a lot of work into my build for the supra especially.

There are more weapons capable of that then you realise.

 

The problem is that the BP is simultaneously a jack of all trades and master of all of them as well.

It has practically no downsides to justify its power except maybe a minor amount of bad ammo efficiency, which is easy to fix and travel time.

My question is why did the braton prime get a buff and is now able to do similar amounts of dmg as the BP, yet also get an ammo nerf despite them both being the same class of weapon? That being jack of all trades assault rifles.

 

Likely because DE will never be able to touch the BP without the community collectively losing its mind, even if it was something a simple as a max ammo nerf similar to the braton prime, just to give it a noticeable downside. It doesn't help that anyone can grab the thing as soon as they hit MR 2. Thus effectively skipping the entire "progression" of the game and getting their hands on an endgame nuke before they've even past venus.

 

The BP isn't necessarily the whole problem but it shines a light on the glaring flaws with the design of some weapons, overall balance, enemy scaling, the cancer and imbalanced nightmare that is serration and hornet strike, and the mastery system, just to name a few.

Edited December 30, 2014 by StinkyPygmy

[SIDESTRE4M]

Ways? But wouldn't your Meta 2.0 fix that? Lol yeah, just imaginary, but still.

 

Instead of modding for the greatest DPS (there wouldn't be much of a gap), people would first choose weapons based on their playstyles, then mod the weapon to their liking, optimizing further to suit their gameplay and result in more fun.

 

Now, it's just- Step 1: Which does more damage. Step 2: Use the best mod setup. Step 3: Grind.

The fact that there's a best "anything" really is just lame. Balance pushes towards making "multiple solutions".

It's true, nerfing Boltor P won't solve anything- every weapon needs looking at. But it's impossible that DE would ever do such thing.

 

In case you didn't notice: I agree.

 

But I don't think simply nerfing Boltor Prime will do the trick.

 

Did the launcher nerfs anything for the people requesting it? No.

[Rorgal_Sina]

In case you didn't notice: I agree.

 

But I don't think simply nerfing Boltor Prime will do the trick.

 

Did the launcher nerfs anything for the people requesting it? No.

Well, we can only ask for consistency from DE at this point? I mean, they aren't very consistent... at all.

[SIDESTRE4M]

Then I must be dreaming when I drop one in a few shots with my attica, or one shot with a grinlock and sybaris.

Can't forget the good old supra.

There are more weapons capable of that then you realise.

 

The problem is that the BP is simultaneously a jack of all trades and master of all of them as well.

It has practically no downsides to justify its power except maybe a minor amount of bad ammo efficiency, which is easy to fix.

My question is why did the braton prime get a buff and is now able to do similar amounts of dmg as the BP, yet also get an ammo nerf despite them both being the same class of weapon? That being jack of all trades assault rifles.

 

Likely because DE will never be able to touch the BP without the community collectively losing its mind, even if it was something a simple as a max ammo nerf similar to the braton prime, just to give it a noticeable downside.

I guess he didn't scroll down at dpsframe.^^

Beats me why Braton Prime got an ammo nerf in exchange for it's damage. I think DE is experimenting and trying to figure out what they can do without creating a S#&$ storm.

 

Well, we can only ask for consistency from DE at this point? I mean, they aren't very consistent... at all.

They are acting like firefighters with a limited number. They are trying to extinguish the biggest flames.

[Rorgal_Sina]

I guess he didn't scroll down at dpsframe.^^

Beats me why Braton Prime got an ammo nerf in exchange for it's damage. I think DE is experimenting and trying to figure out what they can do without creating a S#&$ storm.

 

They are acting like firefighters with a limited number. They are trying to extinguish the biggest flames.

They are? Well I suppose the biggest flames are the bug-fixes from newly released content. The second biggest ones are the new content.

 

JK XD, but this hope of rebalancing isn't going to surface soon. Maybe slowly.

[KanmaX92]

I personally don't know how I feel about this topic. I for one always spent plat on slots up until a year ago when I bought $20 of plat and proceeded to buy the Boltor Prime, Paris Prime and Rhino Prime. I think the Primes need to be tiered. The Paris Prime is fine as an MR 3 - 5 weapon. Its a one hit kill for most things, requires skill and readies you for the other projectile weapons in the game. The Soma at MR 6 is the turning point for most players. The gun is and always will be a beast and from here on out you should be able to use even more powerful weapons, hence the Boltor Prime/ Soma Prime. MR 8 is a pain to get for the D Nikana, so I'd say 7 would be the perfect number and a long enough wait for you to ditch your Boltor for the Prime one. 

But yeah, the Boltor Prime is way too powerful to be in the hands of MR 2 - 6's. Other guns just pale in comparison, and the content will not be up to scratch as it'll destroy anything on the Star Map. So let's gate the Boltor Prime behind the MR wall. Maybe then people will play with the majority of the guns before sticking to the Primes. 

#OpticorMasterRace

[S0ulre4per]

boltor prime IS too op for master rank fkin zero.

 

no wonder everyone is saying its a noob weapon. every1 can get it (just trade your plat for the parts and build it) and it wrecks anything

 

Give it mastery rank 8 (it is so op that it HAS to be xp locked)

 

i had to work my 4$$ off for dragon nikana so do the same thing for boltor prime.

 

 

i dont care if you hate me for this, i got my flame repellent ready anyways

[SIDESTRE4M]

However Orokin Cells could prove to be a problem for newcomers. I doubt they will even build it before reaching saturn, which probably is enough to get to MR2. Could be wrong about that. I mostly ignored starmap progress and just got to the interesting missions. Although I now have most of the starmap complete.

Edited December 30, 2014 by SIDESTRE4M

[Vivicector]

MR7+ or higher. Such shortcut removes 90% of content fom the game. Same applies for any god-tier weapon without MR requirements. Oh, I remember going to T1 exterminate with my Mag and Hind+Mk1 Kunai, spending half an hour to clean it carefully and retreating several times. By giving shotcuts like BP you steal such experience from people and loose players.

 

Allow Prime Access buyers to use their primes, but all other things must be XP locked.

[LtZefar]

boltor prime IS too op for master rank fkin zero.

 

 

Most Prime weapon are locked to like Mastery Rank 4 or less.

 

It's not hard to get past that. Even if newbies get Boltor Prime at low level they won't have good mods for it. Unless they have bought the good ones for plat.