So People Who Worked Hard Enough To Earn That Mod

[WhiteCr0w]

what teamplay? the most teamplay i've ever seen is when there's 2 lokis using decoy while fighting a boss. and the risk you're implying here is actually risk of playing in pug because you never know who you're going to be paired up with.

 

and with mods being the only way you're going to get stronger, punishing everyone because of exploiters doesn't really fix the problem, it just causes more in the end.

 

Those aren't worthwhile teammates, which is why I put that word in my post.

[Allekatrase]

I think the biggest issue here is infinite defense missions.  The point really is to see how many waves you can make it through before falling.  Now, if you really want to test your skills you're not going to get rewarded at all.  That's my only real complaint about this change.  I haven't tested it but if this isn't the case then I have no problems.

[Spoit]

Guess what? There's risk now. I don't see what the problem is in promoting team play. That's what this update accomplished, and if you fail to see it then you're deluded. Find worthwhile teammates, stick together, and if anyone gets dropped revive them. Kinda' how the game was supposed to be played. If you're playing right, no one has to die and lose out on those hard earned mods.

 

Except that this actually makes it so there's less reason for team play. You're asking them to risk losing their drops too by standing there reviving you under enemy fire

[Deost]

With Endless Defense - the easier ones aren't too bad if you got really good weapons and some modicum of skill.

 

Or the right frame.  (I'm looking at you, Frost.)

 

The problem is getting to a high level wave and folks abandoning it when you want to move on. You'll have to quit early if you want to keep stuff.

 

The thing now is - clans might actually have some worthwhile merit to them besides *just* being a social endeavor.

[ShimmerDoll]

With Endless Defense - the easier ones aren't too bad if you got really good weapons and some modicum of skill.

 

Or the right frame.  (I'm looking at you, Frost.)

 

The problem is getting to a high level wave and folks abandoning it when you want to move on. You'll have to quit early if you want to keep stuff.

 

The thing now is - clans might actually have some worthwhile merit to them besides *just* being a social endeavor.

But where does this leave the solo player who has absolutely no desire to join a clan? Solo people are of no value anymore? Also I don't like or have alot of frames (depends which), or I am just better playing with specific ones that don't really have the god powers of other frames to solo defense. If there was some character customization I would though.

Edited April 20, 2013 by BloodDoll

[CloudPies]

My main issue with this is if the host disconnects, not even because they aborted because they didn't get a drop, but connection problems, the entire team get shafted.

Additionally, since there is no gain to being lenient on bad players (read: resing and/or hopping into their gangbang and popping an ulti) and they would only lead to you losing everything you worked for; I suggest that the game implements: (1) a way of seeing who is the host (2) being able to choose to host games (3) blacklist of people you don't want to be in a team with/hosting

[MaximumSquid]

So what I would consider to the a low point for the game made far worse for those who actually enjoyed playing it?

 

Endless wave defense missions are a crappy endgame, but it's all Warframe has ATM

 

I think they could be made a lot better if the game were better balanced. . .

Last time I did one though my teammates knew how to screw the AI perfectly and it was a snorefest

[Zeyami]

This is such a strange complaint. Isn't it fairly common (read: virtually ubiquitous) for games to penalize death by forcing you to forfeit the progress you made? I was honestly surprised when I started playing and discovered that that wasn't already the case.

Bad game design doesn't justify itself.

[WhiteCr0w]

Except that this actually makes it so there's less reason for team play. You're asking them to risk losing their drops too by standing there reviving you under enemy fire

 

You, and people like you, do not understand what team play even is. If one person in your squad drops, what makes you think you're going to fare any better with one less gun killing things? You're the guy who runs around while your teammates are dead, or dying all because you don't want to end up the same way. The catch is, you will.

 

The sooner you can get over that, the sooner you'll realize what this update accomplished.

[ShimmerDoll]

You, and people like you, do not understand what team play even is. If one person in your squad drops, what makes you think you're going to fare any better with one less gun killing things? You're the guy who runs around while your teammates are dead, or dying all because you don't want to end up the same way. The catch is, you will.

 

The sooner you can get over that, the sooner you'll realize what this update accomplished.

Accomplished alienating solo players or just people who play in duos. 

[WhiteCr0w]

Accomplished alienating solo players or just people who play in duos. 

 

I play in a duo with my brother all the time. At 90+ hours played, I've played in a group larger than two maybe three times. If I'm not with my brother, then I solo. The reason why I haven't played in full squads is because there was no reason to. This is a co-op PvE game, and that element has sorely been missing.

[JHarlequin]

 Why would anyone consider this to be the final decision on their attempt to reduce bad gameplay.  We already found one bug in the case of the defense mission.  They are likely to adjust it to work better.

 

 As it is though, the way it was stated, abandoning a mission earns nothing but the xp earned during the mission is a good feature.  It just had an unfortunate side effect.

 

 It will probably be adjusted.  The adjustment though might still cause problems for those that die and don't revive.  I could live with that even if it would be a bit tougher on some players.  Hopefully some drop rates are adjusted to improve the new player situation.

 

 If the effect of this change gets finalized specifically as "Abandoning loses everything other then xp earned from actions" then it will be a good change.  If they can't separate death from abandoning, then it won't be as good and will really cut back on defense missions going far, but I could still play quite comfortably if it ended up that way.

[ShimmerDoll]

I play in a duo with my brother all the time. At 90+ hours played, I've played in a group larger than two maybe three times. If I'm not with my brother, then I solo. The reason why I haven't played in full squads is because there was no reason to. This is a co-op PvE game, and that element has sorely been missing.

Well they just need to make sure there solo or private mode with one person, scales to one person. So much content is completely inaccessible to me and this mods lost if mission fails stuff is bad for me.  

[WhiteCr0w]

Well they just need to make sure there solo or private mode with one person, scales to one person. So much content is completely inaccessible to me and this mods lost if mission fails stuff is bad for me.  

 

I definitely agree on that. Proper scaling is a must if they're going to enforce this update as is.

[Quetzhal]

You, and people like you, do not understand what team play even is. If one person in your squad drops, what makes you think you're going to fare any better with one less gun killing things? You're the guy who runs around while your teammates are dead, or dying all because you don't want to end up the same way. The catch is, you will.

 

The sooner you can get over that, the sooner you'll realize what this update accomplished.

Actually, he has a point. I don't think he was saying that's what he would have done. He was pointing out the thought process that a good portion of the playerbase might go through.

There are many players who can easily solo a level on their own. Suppose these players are farming a boss, and the boss fight is the only part they need help with - or perhaps they can solo that boss, but it would be faster in a team. Now suppose that these players are paired with newer players, who are much more susceptible to dying. Under normal circumstances, it wouldn't hurt to try to revive them - even if they fail and die (because of the prolonged exposure to enemy fire that reviving entails), they can keep their items.

With the new rule in place, such players are actively discouraged from trying to revive that teammate, simply because doing so would risk death and - in turn - whatever they were farming. Especially so if it's a blueprint they're looking for.

Am I saying that's what I'd do? Absolutely not; I always try to revive other players and generally adjust to the team. It doesn't change the fact that not everyone is going to act like that.

I'm not saying you're wrong. In a proper game where all players are being challenged, then yes, revival and teamwork becomes an absolute must. It's just that it wouldn't work that way in all of the maps. There has to be a better way to encourage teamwork than that.

[Fjarri]

Question: How will this change in which death is a backtracking punishment, effect the game when content and enemies are actually difficult to handle?

 

My Answer: It will make things unrewarding and stupid because all your hard work is so easily lost. How can your progress if the gear and xp you will need comes from higher level enemies, and it is lost if the game is too difficult.

 

Solution: (Bad) Make the content laughably easy and lootgasmic to hide the utter lack of interesting content.

 

Solution: (Good) Remove this/make only MATERIALS AND BPs be lost along with dropping the sell price for mods considerably so that farming actually requires one to finish the mission.

 

Mods are like xp or character points, they change what your character DOES within a balanced medium. Mods are not equipment and are not for acquiring equipment. Farming mods is right now extremely inefficient for farming credits (another thing required for equipment) and as such, should not be taken from you. I am all for losing mats bps creds, and even an xp loss if the mission is failed or aborted. Mods are too important to leave this issue alone and this actually may effect PUG play in the future.

Edited April 20, 2013 by Fjarri

[ShimmerDoll]

Actually, he has a point. I don't think he was saying that's what he would have done. He was pointing out the thought process that a good portion of the playerbase might go through.

There are many players who can easily solo a level on their own. Suppose these players are farming a boss, and the boss fight is the only part they need help with - or perhaps they can solo that boss, but it would be faster in a team. Now suppose that these players are paired with newer players, who are much more susceptible to dying. Under normal circumstances, it wouldn't hurt to try to revive them - even if they fail and die (because of the prolonged exposure to enemy fire that reviving entails), they can keep their items.

With the new rule in place, such players are actively discouraged from trying to revive that teammate, simply because doing so would risk death and - in turn - whatever they were farming. Especially so if it's a blueprint they're looking for.

Am I saying that's what I'd do? Absolutely not; I always try to revive other players and generally adjust to the team. It doesn't change the fact that not everyone is going to act like that.

I'm not saying you're wrong. In a proper game where all players are being challenged, then yes, revival and teamwork becomes an absolute must. It's just that it wouldn't work that way in all of the maps. There has to be a better way to encourage teamwork than that.

With the new rule in place, once I get the mods I want, I discontinue any fighting and try to get to the end. I never did that before but abandon ship at this point. It is too hard to get stuff with this mods are lost if mission failed stuff.

 

I also solo mostly 99% of the time so as I said these changes just ruined things for me.

They should just have real drops you can sell for credits and leave the mods as an item we can't sell. Then let us still acquire them even if the mission fails, since they'd have no value but to better our character.

Edited April 20, 2013 by BloodDoll

[destroyer12]

This change was made because a lot of people who can't do a high level missions just do that mission, get some mods (the higher the mission level, the better the mods right?), , then abort the mission.

[Quetzhal]

This change was made because a lot of people who can't do a high level missions just do that mission, get some mods (the higher the mission level, the better the mods right?), , then abort the mission.

No, it was made because people kept killing bosses and aborting immediately afterwards. You don't get better drops with harder missions, at least not that I know of.

[ValhaHazred]

Am I the only person who was surprised the game ever let you keep that stuff when you FAILED. If you fail you shouldn't get the loot. Why should they reward failure?

 

I may be a minority but I like it this way.

[dzonatan]

Host migration wouldn't be an issue if players didn't abort in the first place.

You can not possibly prevent people from leaving aborting missions, regardless if it is for good or bad reason. What if someone has a legitimate reason to leave the game early? should he be punished because of that? That's not fair to anyone as anyone can get a sudden emergency call in irl to do something.

[Fluffanutter]

Demon's Souls and Dark Souls (two extremely hard games) allow you to keep anything you looted up to the point of death. Even if you grabbed something in the boss room, and the boss killed you. There's alot of other games that do that too. I usually fail the mission because their boss or spawns are poorly balanced, but I do get to keep my mods. Now with this change, the mods are also lost and in defense this is a problem.

 

I'll go check it now to make sure but I'm pretty sure that's what happens.

 

If you get back to your corpse without dying again, you forgot to mention that part.

 

Fluffanutter

[DARKKi]

This is such a strange complaint. Isn't it fairly common (read: virtually ubiquitous) for games to penalize death by forcing you to forfeit the progress you made? I was honestly surprised when I started playing and discovered that that wasn't already the case.

 

I was suprised by that too, i thought at the beginning that if you fail or quit you lose everything you have gained and when i found out it was not like that  it felt little strange. I think this current system is much better.

[happyfunba11]

Coming from ME3MP I was very satisfied with keeping what I had already picked up. There are many ways to fail a mission that are out of the players' hands. I havn't played the update yet, so maybe some of that has been fixed (doubtful). I think this should have been more specific. Many times I would solo knowing I was probably going to fail, but when I got a mod I knew that at least I had that much. Yesterday I was steamed when the game told me "progress was not saved" after some kind of connection issue. I had died after counting 3 Grineer when there were 5. Lost some things. Now that will be the way it feels every time I fail. At least failure is not as common in this game as it is in that other game. I know that quitting after rush-farming was an issue, I wish the solution had been more specific.

[Ruzu]

*****Before I begin, I just want to say that I'm posting my general thoughts on the changes this patch brought, and not taking other opinions into consideration. Just my initial thoughts when I first heard about the changes.

 

I just heard about the changes through my friend who also plays this game and I just wanted to list my thoughts on the matter.

 

Losing everything if you abort during the middle of a mission is not cruel, it actually makes sense. If anything, it eliminates a conveniencey factor. You can't just lazily exit the map. You should have to to complete a map to keep everything in my honest opinion, I don't understand why it wasn't like this at first. Players that are angry because that convenience is eliminated shouldn't have any authority to complain, as this new system sounds like an "all the way" system, where you should follow through with a task all the way to receive the reward. However, I am aware that a mission can be aborted due to other factors and I will provide my thoughts on such issues.

 

1) Disconnection/Sudden leaves - It sucks, but players with terrible internet shouldn't be pampered towards. This kind of behavior shouldn't be compensated for to begin with. It's kind of like saying players who get angry because they have worse luck then other players should be compensated for all the time invested. Or, your machine keeps failing on you so you should be compensated because a defective machine is preventing you from playing. Or, you could be playing but your parents are home, so you can't play, so you should be compensated for your desire to play. No, just no. All I can say is, deal with it, upgrade your connection, or wait while devs slowly but gradually improve the code

 

2) Host leaving - There should be a voting system for this. If someone leaving has the potential for causing a host migration that potentially glitches the map or force aborts the game, a vote should pop up asking everybody for their decision. Majority wins. Additionally, there should be a weight applied to this. If a player has a track record of initiating numerous aborts, their yes or no vote would have less weight in comparison to someone who never initiated abort, effectively rendering their vote useless in a 1v1 decision. 

 

* My friend suggested that there should be a penalty for players who initiate abort frequently. Decreased drop rate, decreased affinity, less credits, etc.

 

Now I'll address Defense Missions. I feel as though they're supposed to be high risk, high reward. However, I have a proposed solution that would work under this new system. It can also be applied to Warframe in general. If you decide to abort during the middle of a mission, or die, you should be allowed to pay a penalty to keep everything you have earned thus far. That is beyond fair in my opinion.

 

As for Vor, a much-needed fix. There should not be any 'easy-way-out' method in this game. That just ruins the overall balance. In fact, even before this patch, I fought Vor at least 8 times, and most certainly did NOT get a cronus blueprint 100% of the time. In fact, I only had one blueprint that is now gone.

 

That address all my initial thoughts. I'll start considering other people's thoughts in my responses in future posts.

Edited April 20, 2013 by Ruzu