Cyberspace100 Posted October 3, 2014 Author Share Posted October 3, 2014 Most of the "skill" element is in learning in-game knowledge like level layouts, enemy patterns, and mission strategy. The majority of your success is gear. Though I kinda wish they'd flatten that curve, honestly. The "power" of mods is one thing, but the ludicrous power gap between most of the primes and regular weapons is off-putting. You'd still have a large gear/time advantage factor even if Primes/Wraith/whatever were largely cosmetic/extra-polarity/side-grade/situational. The massive tier difference just renders a huge chunk of content irrelevant except for Mastery grinding, and you can make that ludicrous leapfrog into ultra-tier within a couple days of play through the trade channel. They're doing their own content a disservice. Prime weapons arent even that hard to get and if you dont have the time to look or the plat to buy then you can use a non prime alternative....the sybaris, tiberon, soma, penta, dual ichor, drakgoon, detron, brakk, akstilletos, angstrum, vasto, akvasto, dread, cernos, jat kittag just to name a few are you allready EAGLE ? and, sorry, no comments to this, everything is said in your question and the answers :-))))))))))))))) as well as this thread really made my day ... =)))))))))))))))))))))))))))) This is a confusing comment..please explain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)D4rk50ul-v2 Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 The main "skill" this game requires is teamwork and communication. Beyond that they would need to rework enemy AI or add enemies that create a new layer to the combat. Example: A corpus drone that provides the in area enemies with such a large shield buff that you must kill it to get to them, and has avoidance behavior to make taking it down somewhat difficult. Grineer using mines and capture nets to either force you to stay aware of your surroundings or struggle to free yourself from a slowing effect. Deployable enemy turrets or rocket pods dropped by engineer enemies. I could go on but I hthink doing these kinds of things would really add to both combat difficulty and also force you to use those fancy flips and wall runs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Zeylon Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 Prime weapons arent even that hard to get and if you dont have the time to look or the plat to buy then you can use a non prime alternative....the sybaris, tiberon, soma, penta, dual ichor, drakgoon, detron, brakk, akstilletos, angstrum, vasto, akvasto, dread, cernos, jat kittag just to name a few So.... you're agreeing with me? I made the point about Primes because you can do an endrun around most of the Mastery stuff to get them. You can get most Prime stuff as soon as you can trade (literally within a couple days of starting a character). Whereas, a lot of the stuff you mention relies on rare drops, clan research (not necessarily difficult... if you have a friend), and/or has mastery rank locks that will mean you're ranking up "stuff" before you can touch them. You can get a couple of those early/without-luck/without-mastery though. Mostly I dislike the stark power gap in between weapons because it renders so much content in the game irrelevant. Primes are typically just "better in every possible way", which is a poor choice design-wise in the vein of encouraging variety. The problem is compounded by the ease of getting them. If "choice" consists of weapon1 & weapon2 where the latter is just better in every way, it's really just an illusion of choice. I'd prefer that primes were just cosmetic + extra polarities + situational stat changes rather than cosmetic + super-stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizzaro21 Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 Skill matters in any game, but do you need to have it in warframe... Impressive Shooters take more skill than many other games, juding bullet drop, leading your shots, using cover, recognising enemis fast ehough, switching weapons for the right situation, spawing on sqad mates and supporting them, destroying enemy cover, locating spawn points, and staying alive while you do it. that would make sense, i'd like better equided enemies, one that could kill you just as fast as you could kill it. Like in PVP shooters I've done this before and survived, but this guy uses none of that.. Also, i think that most players that play T4 frequently have no trouble at all killing the enemis (the 4 forma boltor prime is to blame). Wow guys, this thread is making ground. Lets hope the devs catch on. at the video, that guy is using brute force, i noticed he didn`t actually zoom until vor showed up, also, he depended on the gear all the time (the shock eximus part), that doesn`t really seem skillful.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizzaro21 Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 With my 1 Forma Phage build, you can do Ruk in less than 1 minute. I take more time running to Ruk than killing him, im serious... On-Topic: Yes i do believe that skill is important... but skill and knowledge makes you almost invencible. You know your enemy, you knowtheir flaws and you know how to take advantage of it. that is skill, and speaking of ruk, i finished him in 6 shots with boar prime no formas..... so don`t use him as a measure. cuz he`s easy prey.. better use corrupted vor for comparison or vey hek maybe lephantis..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizzaro21 Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 (edited) oh..better remove those mods thennot really good idea to remove them, think of gorgon, grakata, supra, dera, etc.... almost all low MR weapons need them badly except supra... as it needs MR 7 Edited October 3, 2014 by Bizzaro21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizzaro21 Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 (edited) mods the reduce recoil in warframe.... 1 for each fire weapon class. but rifle, vile precision and stabilizer. Edited October 3, 2014 by Bizzaro21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primal_Scream Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 I like this subject, think about it, we go into the void to get formas, weapons and warframes. But NONE of the inhabitants there have any of these. You don't see heavy gunners in rhino prime with a boltor prime. Siriously, are vor and alad v smarter than the orokin corrupted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-skimmer- Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 Getting to wave 5 isn't impressive. It is impressive for a new player, but not for the average warframe player. I stand by my statement. You are right. Average player would pick Frost and would keep spamming snowglobes until enemies become so strong they could oneshot the pod between the casts with a stray bullet. That is exactly the skill difference between the new player and the average player in this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AoiiToori Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 Please re-read my post. You completely misunderstood what I typed. I probably did x_x But the more I think a bout it fun>skill. If you have fun doing your thing while contributing to the mission and not hindering the team then maybe it passes off as skill too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llyssa Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 I keep thinking, if vitality and associated mods had their efficiency cut in half, there'd be a LOT more skill in warframe. Too many people load up on health boosters for low level missions, and then end up sucking when you get to the hard stuff, because they never learned how to fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-skimmer- Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 I keep thinking, if vitality and associated mods had their efficiency cut in half, there'd be a LOT more skill in warframe. Too many people load up on health boosters for low level missions, and then end up sucking when you get to the hard stuff, because they never learned how to fight. Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NetSlayer Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 Style (fun) > Skill (experience) > Stats (Numbers) Style-Oriented: I roll out of cover and shoot Akmagnus, aiming for the head, I transition to melee the nearby enemy with a stun/parry. Because its fun and I look badass while doing so. There is skill but my loadout is not limited to what the community thinks is viable.I look completely different from most players, my back is not always lit green from corrosive weaponry. Teamplay is core, if I have time I will do something awesome to save my team-mates. Skill-oriented: I just run out of cover then shoot Akmagnus, I'm good at aiming for the head and other weakspots. My skill allows me to survive using stats I've gathered. It limits my Loadout to what the community thinks is viable. I can probably survive further than style-oriented people. At the base level that's all I do, survive. My back is almost always lit green from corrosive weaponry. To a strong degree I can help my team. Stats-oriented I don't use akmagnus because its not viable in T4. I use a weapon everyone else uses. I can't aim for headshots regularly but hopefully I will improve with time. My stats are very strong in terms of DPS, survivability or utility. I can't make any promises with regards to teamplay. (This is all very rough in terms of what I'm trying to convey hopefully you get the idea) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loveshack Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 The only skill that really matters in Warframe is your ability to find, read, and understand the wiki. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aldlv13 Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 im guessing OP hasnt played much endgame content if they believe that all the game takes to win is point and click to win. then again i don't/hanven't used rhino/launcher weapons/boltor prime so maybe it just takes skill because im not abusing the easy mode gear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aldlv13 Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 Style (fun) > Skill (experience) > Stats (Numbers) Style-Oriented: I roll out of cover and shoot Akmagnus, aiming for the head, I transition to melee the nearby enemy with a stun/parry. Because its fun and I look badass while doing so. There is skill but my loadout is not limited to what the community thinks is viable. I look completely different from most players, my back is not always lit green from corrosive weaponry. Teamplay is core, if I have time I will do something awesome to save my team-mates. Skill-oriented: I just run out of cover then shoot Akmagnus, I'm good at aiming for the head and other weakspots. My skill allows me to survive using stats I've gathered. It limits my Loadout to what the community thinks is viable. I can probably survive further than style-oriented people. At the base level that's all I do, survive. My back is almost always lit green from corrosive weaponry. To a strong degree I can help my team. Stats-oriented I don't use akmagnus because its not viable in T4. I use a weapon everyone else uses. I can't aim for headshots regularly but hopefully I will improve with time. My stats are very strong in terms of DPS, survivability or utility. I can't make any promises with regards to teamplay. (This is all very rough in terms of what I'm trying to convey hopefully you get the idea) i love my akmagnus and go to wave 30+ t4 d still one shotting people who said it isn't viable? i'll shoot 'em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fakeBOSHI Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 As others have said before, there is basic requirement of skill involved in warframe namely transferrable shooter related skills like quick twitch reflexes, environment awareness, minimal teamwork, finger dexterity etc. Depending on the level of enemies, mod ranks and loadout, one or more of the above don't matter. Imo, what is lacking in "skill" is the visual and unmistakable attribution of "wow wtf" moments when observing other players. What i mean is, imagine a new warframe where you load up with some pubs on a T4S, all but one squadmate has a pkmped out rhino p, boltor p etc (insert whatever loadout you deem easy mode/op). One squad mate however, loads in with a level of 10 frame, and generally "S#&$ty loadout. This player proceeds to perform flawlessly wall running while gunning with pinpoint precision and taking minimal damage, while doing loads of damage because mods and weapons are not the be all end all etc. A moment that would make most players say "wow, how the f*** is he doing that?". Fast forward to min 50, rhinos are finding cover and just hanging in there and our pro is still flying from wall to wall just destroying the enemy. It would make you want to know how this player is doing what he is doing and to practice doing that because it is not only the most optimal way to play but also seperates you the vet from the casual scrubs (no offense ><). I feel that is what will keep players around and continuing to try to optimize their play. Not just grinding the new prime. The above scenario should be difficult to achieve mechanically and should also have other styles (solid tactical and methodical) that are equally as awe inspiring. For typos, stubby fingers on a tablet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizzaro21 Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 Also, loki's invisibility should be "Limited" its basically another rhino skin. except that you can get instakilled if you get in the way of the fire on a visible target... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizzaro21 Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 are vor and alad v smarter than the orokin corrupted? well the corrupted`s one and only job is to guard the tower, and they appearently do it brainlessly and blindly...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizzaro21 Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 I keep thinking, if vitality and associated mods had their efficiency cut in half, there'd be a LOT more skill in warframe. Too many people load up on health boosters for low level missions, and then end up sucking when you get to the hard stuff, because they never learned how to fight. that`s probably why they added the broken mods in the new tutorial quest (vor`s prize), so you could learn the basics without relying on something for durability instead of skill and knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victor_victory Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 Imo experience is more important than skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizzaro21 Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 The only skill that really matters in Warframe is your ability to find, read, and understand the wiki. that`s probably 50% skill, rest is how to understand and apply what`s on wikia IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)ShapelessHorr0r Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 Nope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karamethien Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 Are we talking about skill or talking about physical reflexes? Skill is just your ability to maximize the tools at your disposal. To think skill doesn't matter is moronic. A skilled player will do better than an unskilled player. Why is this even an 6 page discussion? You can play one extreme or another against each other but that is pretty much nitpicking on leaves and forgetting the trees. Any MMORPG will have a skill REQUIREMENT of near zero. That is the whole point - because MMORPG need to be accessible to as many players as possible. In the same sense of you don't release a AAA movie when it only uses scientific notation and latin with no subtitles. The only real conversation about skill will be about PvP because that is the only real test of skill vs skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquirmyBurrito Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 (edited) You are right. Average player would pick Frost and would keep spamming snowglobes until enemies become so strong they could oneshot the pod between the casts with a stray bullet. That is exactly the skill difference between the new player and the average player in this game. The only thing I use Frost for is Kubrow leveling (until they're high enough for armor and health). I do everything else with whatever frame I feel like using at the time. Edit: You're also forgetting that accurate aim, good judgement, and general knowledge of the game and its mechanics are all things that a new player isn't going to have and are going to contribute to their failures in higher level content where mistakes are punished more severely. I'm trying to get my little brother who has zero experience with games like these (he only plays pokemon) to give this scenario a go. I figure he'd be the perfect test subject as he lacks all skills generally associated with experience in the shooter genre. Edited October 3, 2014 by SquirmyBurrito Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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