Snow Globe Needs Changes

[inappropriatename5818]

Yes, it's another topic complaining how snowglobe isn't OP in high level, but hear me out please.   

 

I recently decided to forma out my frost prime to max potential and do some T4 defenses with him. He is still ESSENTIAL in high level defense, but unless you have an ability that will deter enemies from shooting the cryopod the only viable strategy is to abuse the 4 second immunity.  

 

This is the thing I find really "sad", the fact that all the stats snowglobe scales with are WORTHLESS in any remotely high level defense.  I completely agree that in insanely high defenses invoulnerable snowglobe is beyond broken and you should have to spam it every 4 seconds to get permanent invoulnerability. But by that I mean wave 50+, that's when you should need an organized team with specialized frost build and energy restores to get through.  

 

Snow globe scales with Duration, Armor, Strenght and Range. It is really dissapointing how fast these stats become irelevant, useless.  I have a maxed out build, with intensify, steel fiber, arcane squall helmet and maxed efficiency. The sad part is, strenght and armor become useless very fast, there isn't any point equipping them from my experience, because unless you have Nova with a good slow or Nyx to Chaos the enemy it won't survive more than 8 seconds at maximum - 4 seconds of absorbing damage and 4 seconds at best after immunity, for them to take down the absorbed damage. The enemies do so much damage it's not worth wasting mod slots to try to build towards snowglobe, anything past wave 15-20 you have to play for the immunity duration, making all stats but efficiency worthless.   

 

I propose changes to snowglobe. I don't know exactly what would be best, but I have a couple ideas that I will below.   

 

First and most important in my opinion. Allies should be able to shoot through snowglobe. This alone would make frost a lot more viable in all missions, even infested. 

 

My idea on how to make snowglobe way better without making it OP like it was before the change.

 

First Change: Make it's health static. Right now, to increase it's health you can use 3 mods. Intensify, Blind Rage and Steel Fiber. With my build it has about 7000 Effective HP. that is INSANE on mercury, but WORTHLESS past wave 10 in T4 defense. I won't talk about blind rage, because any experienced player knows it's power efficiency to strenght ratio isn't worth it and spam builds with 2 point BR will always do more per energy used as by using this mod, not to mention it would work against you in the only viable strategy out there at the moment.   

Giving Snow Globe static health would mean you don't have to itemize Armor and Strenght to make it good early - mid game and you can have room to equip other mods to help you later on with 4 second immunity strategy.

 

BUT! Here's the second change in my idea

 

Make immunity scale with Power Duration. Now before you stop reading, I don't want to have immune snowglobe back, I simply think this would make snowglobe scale well low-high level evenly. Imagine if you had maybe 10000 base health on snowglobe and 4 second immunity duration that scales with duration. You could maximize out duration, which would be great for lower level because you don't have to cast snowglobe to block minimum damage and you wouldn't waste stats going into late game because immunity would scale very well with it, up to 10 seconds, so it would be less annoying and less mindless to play.    

 

 

Why I think this would make frost way better?   

We all know that frames that scale from 1 stat are usually the ones that are very strong or "OP" as they are usually reffered to. Look at old Nova for example, all she needed was efficiency and range to kill everything. DE did a GREAT job balancing her out a bit more by making her scale with duration also, so right now she scales with everything and you have to decide if you want more range on MP or bigger explosions.  

With this change frost would be the same way. You would have to decide if you want to build strenght to make his other abilities good, which would be wasted for snowglobe or build duration to make snowglobe good but would be wasted on other abilities.  

I know Frost is a completely different case than Nova, because arguably his damaging abilities aren't that great, but I won't be the judge of that.    

 

 

What do you think? Do you have any good ideas on how to change frost to be more pleasant to play? Please share :)

[DarkSoulStrider]

its called effeciency no duration and max strength problem solved someone stays on the energy restores and 2 people shoot/stop enimes from getting in

 

 

or you can do what we all do and use loki and frost with booben, nyx and frost

[AirshipSlice]

I was thinking a small rework to make it sorta like Volt's Shield. Shooting through it gives a light added dmg increase, slight status rate increase,and slight proc increase.

[Kagurazaka]

 

First and most important in my opinion. Allies should be able to shoot through snowglobe. This alone would make frost a lot more viable in all missions, even infested. 

 

Make immunity scale with Power Duration.

 

 

Yes, yes and yes. Please.

Edited October 2, 2014 by Kagurazaka

[xRufus7x]

DE has stated several times that the game will not and should not be balanced around endless content like Survival and Defense. Honestly Snowglobe is fine the way it is. If you want a build for that content then build for low energy consumption and enjoy spamming 3.

 

Or you can use Volt. When properly specced he can maintain his electric shield for around a minute. With proper placement you can cover the pod with four of them. Its utterly useless against infested, but blocks all incoming fire.

Edited October 2, 2014 by xRufus7x

[DarkSoulStrider]

DE has stated several times that the game will not and should not be balanced around endless content like Survival and Defense. Honestly Snowglobe is fine the way it is. If you want a build for that content then build for low energy consumption and enjoy spamming 3.

This^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[chematus]

If you can freely remove 3 out of 4 frame abilites, it's broken. If DE want to leave globe in such a useless state, they should at least give some usefull abilities to frost.

[Cryozar]

Is it bad i want Frost's Avalanche's to have some freeze duration on still-living targets like it did once in that one bug almost a year ago?

[Greenvalv]

First Change: Make it's health static. Right now, to increase it's health you can use 3 mods. Intensify, Blind Rage and Steel Fiber. With my build it has about 7000 Effective HP. that is INSANE on mercury, but WORTHLESS past wave 10 in T4 defense. I won't talk about blind rage, because any experienced player knows it's power efficiency to strenght ratio isn't worth it and spam builds with 2 point BR will always do more per energy used as by using this mod, not to mention it would work against you in the only viable strategy out there at the moment.   

I have Blind Rage, Intensify, Steel Fiber, Streamline, and Fleeting Expertise and my globes have no problem up to waves 40+ on T4 Defense.

 

 

Is it bad i want Frost's Avalanche's to have some freeze duration on still-living targets like it did once in that one bug almost a year ago?

I think it should knockback everything in its radius and freeze proc them.  Make it as useful as Oberon's Reckoning.

[Cryozar]

 

I think it should knockback everything in its radius and freeze proc them.  Make it as useful as Oberon's Reckoning.

which freeze proc? the ice wave one or legit frozen solid? because the bug i remember was 6 seconds of freeze that wouldn't be canceled from a few bullets like his 1

[-CM-Asmud]

You can also have Trinity on your team that can spam Energy Vampire.

[inappropriatename5818]

DE has stated several times that the game will not and should not be balanced around endless content like Survival and Defense. Honestly Snowglobe is fine the way it is. If you want a build for that content then build for low energy consumption and enjoy spamming 3.

 

Or you can use Volt. When properly specced he can maintain his electric shield for around a minute. With proper placement you can cover the pod with four of them. Its utterly useless against infested, but blocks all incoming fire.

 

 

Like I said, I agree that spamming the ability makes sense on very high level, but my main gripe is, mods that work early on become useless really fast. Wave 10-15 is when strenght and armor stops mattering at all if you let enemies shoot it in a T4 defense.   

 

I also said I don't know exactly how he could be changed, this is just my idea, if I tried to balance him I would do this and see what happens. They can nerf it if it turns out too strong.  It just falls off really fast imo and it sucks that Duration, Strenght and to some extent armor are wasted on him past wave 15. 

[dashashou]

honestly it was fine when it have  unlimited health  - the whole high hp  mean it can easily do  lower levels and just  becomes  irrelevant  at higher  ones  

 

and  Hi level endless / NM mode are the ones that people want to play ! we want scaling abilitys  not for the low stuff but for the end game , and having the SG have HP - just  makes frost non endgame  

[Greenvalv]

which freeze proc? the ice wave one or legit frozen solid? because the bug i remember was 6 seconds of freeze that wouldn't be canceled from a few bullets like his 1

The slowing one was what I had in mind.  My idea is to get rid of the frozen solid effect during Avalanche casting (which is worthless since they promptly resume whatever they were doing) in favor of knocking them down away from the caster and then slow proc'ing them.  I mean it's an avalanche ultimate for gawd's sakes.. why aren't they knocked off their feet?

Edited October 2, 2014 by Greenvalv

[ranks21]

I basically have to remove 2 abilities from each and every frame to even have a chance to survive solo past the 45 mins mark in survivals. to even go longer I think ill have to move a third out. with hp and shield drainers doing 600 drain per tick + past the 25 mins mark the bleed procers comes out in hoardes.

 

 its not even fair to anyone wanting to  play solo for a long time with the enemies doing d2.0 and the frames are stuck defenseless in 1.0. scaling is a joke and the system isn't the least balanced.

 

 players shouldn't be limited to just 4 frames if they want to go long in survivals solo or have to remove abilities to do so. what is the use of armor when it just plain don't work?

 

 pay very close attention to the damage each shot does after the 25 mins mark and your shields and health, and how well armor and quick thinking+ rage works then.

 

 I would love to use all my frames ( have all excluding nyx prime) to do long runs with, but the way it is now its just not possible because some frames are just weak and I really don't like to spam abilities. there is just no defense against hp and energy drain  that works as well as the amount the enemy takes.

[Quizel]

Under the assumption dmg dealt to the globe is a constant, the 4 sec invulnerability is really 8 sec. Wasn't the old globe base duration like 10 sec? The whole re-work of snowglobe was to keep players active. The invulnerability scaling with mods idea proposed here puts it right back where it used to be.

 

Being able to fire through the globe (from outside it) sounds a little OP.  Keeping the current behavior is far more interesting mechanic.

 

I wouldn't say the globe is absolutely perfect as is, but what ability is?  It's good enough in my book. Just be glad DE let us put up more than 1 at a time.

Edited October 2, 2014 by Quizel

[tocorro]

DE has stated several times that the game will not and should not be balanced around endless content like Survival and Defense. Honestly Snowglobe is fine the way it is. If you want a build for that content then build for low energy consumption and enjoy spamming 3.

 

Or you can use Volt. When properly specced he can maintain his electric shield for around a minute. With proper placement you can cover the pod with four of them. Its utterly useless against infested, but blocks all incoming fire.

 

They maybe do say so... but they serve us time and again with missions, special alerts and events that DO scale indefinitely.

And vet players aren't exactly extracting at wave 10-15 (as stated balance point of the game).

With my 9000hp globe - 5forma frost at higher waves they shred my globe almost as fast as I can cast them. So if I don't have decent players in team - and I mean team oriented with complementing skills : Frosty is useless.

I do better job with Nyx than Frost in high lvl def. That is just sad.

Balance point my *ss. So many other warframe scale and are of use, but Frost doesn't. Not to mention that his skill is based on way more things than any other warframe in the game - and it gives him NO benefits. In my opinion this is broken - I'm saying this as a long term Frost player.

 

EDIT : @Quizel keep players active ? As I've seen it it's just the opposite - Frost players must sit on their behinds inside the globe and near the pod to recast it when high lvl mobs tear it down. When the old globe was in place my Frost was spreading death among mobs and the objective was safe (pod). Not to mention he was quick and had a tanky build. It was fun playing him. Now to get most of globe players have to make him squishy and slow. And the rest of his abilities have no real utility whatsoever so I find them useless. (yeah ice waves does slow down a bit but just what it hits in a straight line). Either he needs more utility or rework of globe.

Edited October 2, 2014 by tocorro

[Quizel]

EDIT : @Quizel keep players active ?

I didn't say it Scott did >.> "I got tired of players complaining in the forums that all they do on frost is cast a snow globe, go make a sandwich, and come back cast it again."

 

Something along those lines was said during a dev stream.  A very poor choice of words imo.  Back in those days while pug'ing I still was top dmg and top kills as frost quite often even if the OP nova was in group.  I would cast Globe and continue to kick @$$.

 

I wasn't for the change to frost, previous version was fine.  But the dev's didn't think so. The proposed change puts it right back where it used to be-which was changed for a reason. 

Edited October 2, 2014 by Quizel

[inappropriatename5818]

Under the assumption dmg dealt to the globe is a constant, the 4 sec invulnerability is really 8 sec. Wasn't the old globe base duration like 10 sec? The whole re-work of snowglobe was to keep players active. The invulnerability scaling with mods idea proposed here puts it right back where it used to be.

 

Being able to fire through the globe (from outside it) sounds a little OP.  Keeping the current behavior is far more interesting mechanic.

 

I wouldn't say the globe is absolutely perfect as is, but what ability is?  It's good enough in my book. Just be glad DE let us put up more than 1 at a time.

 

 

Yes, but if being active means standing there pressing 3 every 4 seconds then I rather just not play the game. You don't even have time to shoot, in best case scenario and if damage is constant like you said, that's 8 seconds. But would you risk and leave it up more than 4 seconds 60 waves in?    

 

What if they made snowglobe absorb friendly fire from the inside as it passes through?

[inappropriatename5818]

They maybe do say so... but they serve us time and again with missions, special alerts and events that DO scale indefinitely.

And vet players aren't exactly extracting at wave 10-15 (as stated balance point of the game).

With my 9000hp globe - 5forma frost at higher waves they shred my globe almost as fast as I can cast them. So if I don't have decent players in team - and I mean team oriented with complementing skills : Frosty is useless.

I do better job with Nyx than Frost in high lvl def. That is just sad.

Balance point my *ss. So many other warframe scale and are of use, but Frost doesn't. Not to mention that his skill is based on way more things than any other warframe in the game - and it gives him NO benefits. In my opinion this is broken - I'm saying this as a long term Frost player.

 

This is exactly what I mean. You are essentially wasting mods in the end game because all the mods you have equipped to get 9000HP on snowglobe are worthless. If 1 heavy gunner is shooting the globe he can take that 9000 hp out in a couple seconds, just look at how fast he shreds the cryopod which has a lot of health.   

It's just sad, frost has 1 job, he is pretty much made for defending something, slow, CC and a shield and Nyx does that job better than him.     

 

 

I get that immunity might not be the most balanced idea, but it's more fun to cast it and shoot for 10 seconds than it is standing there and pressing 3 every 3 seconds because you'll fail if you don't.  

 

It's like Nekros, all you do is press 3 all game, it's not fun at all.

[Quizel]

What if they made snowglobe absorb friendly fire from the inside as it passes through?

Well, 4 players pumping out 20k sustained dps for 4 sec is an offly large absorb and goofy mechanic.  DE could say it only absorbs 1/10 to 1/4 of that or something but...

 

When it absorbs enemy dmg, it scales with level. If it absorbed by our dps output, it doesn't scale with enemies. I don't know if there's a defined limit to enemy maximum scaled dmg, but if not at some point absorbing our dmg output wouldn't help.

 

Besides, the grenades thrown by enemies which pass right through the globe seem to be what totally f's up the group when I play. All it takes is one mob not CC'ed ~10-15m or so away can end it all.

 

 

Yes, but if being active means standing there pressing 3 every 4 seconds then I rather just not play the game. 

 

Yeah it's lame and as I said above it's what the dev's were going for.  I thought globe was fine the way it was.  The new mechanic is annoying. Time spent casting globe is time not spent shooting, which makes going further into endless defense that much harder.  I think that is what the dev's were ultimately going for.

Edited October 2, 2014 by Quizel

[(PSN)Veg1ta]

Nope, scales just fine late game if you bothered bringing proper crowd control, i saw snow globe handle wave 50 t4 def just fine with proper support.

[tocorro]

Nope, scales just fine late game if you bothered bringing proper crowd control, i saw snow globe handle wave 50 t4 def just fine with proper support.

 

Yeah PROPER support. I play for fun from time to time, and that means I go into chat to get some PUGs to play. Try hosting a game and see how many will not lie about their build or abilities :/ Why I'm not playing with friends that I started this game with ? Because they left, enraged with constant nerfs = ruining their fun of playing, or just simply bored.

[Agua]

We don't even use frost on defense anymore. Normally I get a vauban and throw 4 vortex around capsule while loki disarms. Frost is useless on high levels, doesn't matter if you max everything.

 

What DE could do is reduce base snowglobe life by 30% or so, and add a 50% damage reduction(after regular damage reduction) to it. This way it would't be so OP at lower levels and still be viable on tier4 endless missions. Just a thought.

[(PSN)Veg1ta]

Well thats the problem with the player and warframe synergy, snow globe good in all but you cant expect to carry anyone inside to whatever wave they fancied, 1 abilty without the other is useless, its called teamwork.