Crafting...this Is Madness!

[Sarvrin]

One thing in particular caught my attention while I was crafting a new sword. The waiting time. The waiting time that is far beyond acceptable and is there for no other reason than getting real credits into Dev's pocket. Seriously..are we playing a PC game or an Android building game where you buy diamonds to shorten the time you wait for  new pot of coffee to be ready? 

I can live with 15h downtime. But if the time required rises with the rarity of the blueprint. Well..this is definitely not the way to go.

Think about purchasable, visual variations of the available Warframes, weapons etc. Please...get rid of that stupid thing...

[asurako989]

well, this is a PC game. and its on open beta test phase. i dont really mind the wait time. i just go PvE or live my life. i think that the devs are trying out this game differently compared to others as they wish to make it unique and also cuz theres too much PvP and they dont want to end up "copying" another game just for the sake of it. i actually like the weapons and purchasable and such, and find that there is no need to get rid of it. please dont get me wrong, its just my own opinion, and that if you dont like some of the designs and such, that you dont use it. 

[Vilesavant]

12 hours on most everything aside from Warframes (3 days), and Orokin Catalyst/Reactors (1 day). I feel the wait times aren't too much and for the most part you're most likely still trying to get gear to lvl 30 while waiting on stuff to build. But if you just can't wait for it 25 plat is nothing compared to buying a frame outright for 225 (or so). Plus, if you like the game support it, throw 5 bucks at it every now and again.

[Sarvrin]

I would rather get something more interesting. Something encouraging me to reach for my credit card. Waiting time is one of those things that is implemented for one purpose only, forcing your hand to the wallet. If the Dev's wish for support in a F2P environment I would suggest getting it done the more efficient way (Skins etc.)

Of course the waiting time is not a huge deal. Neither it is a huge deal to pay for a shorter waiting time. Especially when the cheapest package is almost 5 euro. You have those in bucks? Well good for you. 

[kennelai2]

Waiting time is not going to force your hands to your credit card. It's just force you to play free. The ONLY thing I considering it's charging me, is the slot. 

[Vilesavant]

 

5 Bucks, worth about 75 platinum.

Edited April 21, 2013 by Vilesavant

[Shion963]

I think of the waiting time as a "Good job farming/grinding all that credit, materials, and BP(s). Now take a day off while we cook this up for you. Visit the wide vistas of Mars, go see the sights of Uranus!"

[plznohurtme]

Everything is in 12/24hr chunks depending on what you're making with the exception of warframes which require 12+72.  I honestly haven't had a problem with the wait times at all... it just gives me something to look forward to, however I will say that I think the warframe construction time should probably be shortened to 24 hours for the warframe construction because you have the 12 hour lead in.

[Zyfe3rX]

People just ask for more when they get almost everything they need....I can't believe this....

Not reading but how dare he say"getting it done the more efficient way"........

They are lots of other games around whet you have pay $$$$ just use the gun for 30 says....people can't wait a bit when they are getting everything....

Always Complain about stuff when they get enough things already.....

[Dancingfirefly]

Well, consider how much you actually need to spend to buy a weapon, I think 12 hours is very lenient. 12 hours as a waiting duration is perfectly fair if you don't want to pay the 'I want it now' tax that typical F2P games are known to have.

 

Do you want it now? Spend money. You don't want it now? Then you won't mind waiting 12 hours to have it.

 

The game has to make money somehow.

[Deost]

I don't see a problem with the waiting time. (I say this while I'm still waiting for a frame to finish cooking.)

 

I do other stuff in the meantime. They don't want you playing this game 24/7. It's supposed to (from what I can see) be a nice casual game to play. That's the nice thing about PvE only games. There's no feel to rush rush rush.

 

So you can do stuff around the house, play a map, do some other stuff, come back play another map. Drop in and out when you want. 

 

That's a good thing.

 

And hey, they didn't make the game without sinking their own money into it in the first place.  So you've the option to speed it up for real money. 

 

You don't have to spend the money.

 

The only thing you have to buy is new slots. That's it. Everything else can be gotten with patience and endurance.

[Sarvrin]

I do not mind the waiting time but this particular way is not going to get the Dev's any money. There should be a voting organized in which each one of us can clearly state what is he willing to pay for. For the time being I can't see any real thought being put into that. 

Why not implement alternative designs for the Warframes? So called skins. I would gladly support the whole game development process by getting a few of those. As most of you stated, waiting 12h is not a big deal ergo -> Very few people will actually buy credits to shorten the waiting time. So what is the whole point of having that implemented? This is not logical judging from all the things I have read here.

@I do other stuff in the meantime. They don't want you playing this game 24/7. It's supposed to (from what I can see) be a nice casual game to play. That's the nice thing about PvE only games. There's no feel to rush rush rush.@

Exactly! So how will this mechanic help them to rise money? Were is the logic in that?

@People just ask for more when they get almost everything they need....I can't believe this....
Not reading but how dare he say"getting it done the more efficient way"........@

Dude please don't put me in that category and stop acting like some kind of an elitist butthole. I happen to earn my games due to employment. So back off. Not reading? So read gain everything that has been inputed here. Yes there are more efficient ways of earning fair money in F2P. One of them is listed above.
 

Edited April 21, 2013 by Sarvrin

[Sarvrin]

So Gentlemen. Any ideas on what can one purchase for bucks to be happy and help the Dev's efficiently continue their work?

Most basic one:

1. Alternative skins for the existing Warframes.
2. Since this is a PvE game maybe there is some room for P2P, longer scenarios. Just like in D&D online game. You have the possibility to buy new campaigns or slowly earn the special coins required while playing. Sounds like DLC? Who cares, if it has content in it and is reasonably prices....and this is a F2P MMO not a stand alone game which is being butchered just to get day first DLC money from us.
3. There is already a "Become a founder" button. Why not get another button called -> Donations. Simple and effective. What is more, people will be able to chose the amount they wish to donate and not be tied by the minimum 5 bucks. An for your information. Bucks are not the only currency in this world. Don't try to compare 5$ to 5 Euro or 5 Pounds. US are the chosen nation or something? We Europeans have to be screwed on this all the freaking time? Same thing happened to Steam where 50 Euro equaled 50 Bucks. Same thing is on Jinx. 50 Euro equals 50 pounds. No it does not. Someone needs to check how the currency system works or go back to school.

4. The Founder program is a great idea but I do not like the fact that some of the gentlemen will be privileged to vote on the upcoming new features. Does it mean that men and women who didn't participate will not be taken into consideration? If so, great work on making the environment elitist buttholes. I hope I am exaggerating here :)

I still stand by my viewpoint on the idea of timed crafting. Next time we will see is the "coin doubler"? Please...give me a break...Or maybe next time we will be so low on cash due to the mecanics changes that it will be a must at some part of the game to buy in-game cash for real money.

This is a unique game. We should debate and help the Dev's with our ideas. Accepting the reality "as is" is not really the best thing to do if we want Warframe to be even more enjoyable in the future....or worse...being bought by some other major MMO business company...then we will all cry seeing how they get the "pay to win" shop organised in no time.

Edited April 21, 2013 by Sarvrin

[Code_Grey]

The waiting period is actually giving you SO much freedom, even if you don't realise it.

 

You confine yourself to Earth or Europa, farming Rubedo for that item...and you finally get it!

 

Now, if you got that item instantly, you'd be forced back to Mercury to level it. (Or have it sitting there in your inventory being useless while you do other stuff.)

 

But now, since it's going to be building for 3 days, you can go and do whatever else you want without thinking "I really should be levelling that new item..."

 

The devs of this game are pretty amazing, if all the nuances in their game design are intentional- And I'm not going to accept that they made a game like this accidentally.

[vieuxchat]

Time is money.

Money buys Time.

No ?

Edited April 21, 2013 by vieuxchat

[Sarvrin]

The very reason behind constructing a new Warframe is to level it or at least play around with it. You need Dev's to decide about your freedom in a game?

[Balo]

I see the waiting time as something encouraging casual play. So you work hard for a bit, farm up what you need to make something, and then take a break, come back when it's ready.

 

Otherwise you just farmed something to get it right away and start leveling it so you can max it out asap and wreck face. You're now in a more hardcore category. Hardcore players should be probably be forking over some cash cause the devs have clearly earned it if you're that enthralled with the game. So hardcore players can afford to rush it.

[bluehawk1976]

As most of you stated, waiting 12h is not a big deal ergo -> Very few people will actually buy credits to shorten the waiting time. So what is the whole point of having that implemented? This is not logical judging from all the things I have read here.

Well,as most people said - this Osborn the main bread maker they chose (which are the extra slots, and anyone who doesn't want to acquire things the slow way;) ). My guess is they put it there as part of gameplay (t stands to reason that building stuff is not instantaneous), but gave you a way out if you have the resources but not the patience. It still goes hand in hand with reason - say you ask a blacksmith to craft you-a suit of armor, you pay him his fee and he will work at it. But if you had the money and wanted a rush order, you could pay extra and more blacksmiths will work with him and finish that much more quickly.

Myself, I see this happening only if I have a huge amount of plat (say from a founders package) and after long search found the last part needed i.e banshee helmet, then I would resources like the building fast. otherwise -I'll just wait.

[Leostrasz]

I do not mind the waiting time but this particular way is not going to get the Dev's any money. There should be a voting organized in which each one of us can clearly state what is he willing to pay for. For the time being I can't see any real thought being put into that. 

 

 

@TS:

Friend, not to be anal or anything here, but in your first post you stated that the waiting time was something you were displeased with, but now you say that it's something that you do not mind. From an academic viewpoint here, I'd say it's quite admirable that you're attempting to think of more efficient ways for the studio to run its business model, albeit using it to state (some might even say b*tch here) about the waiting time. 

 

However, I do wish to return your attention to the fact that they are still running a business. Not a democracy. The act of voting for what you are willing to pay simply means that the company's finance department or its analogue(s) aren't doing their job properly, other than that, I doubt it'll do much.

 

Perhaps you're accustomed to the crafting times in other games where it's fairly quick or instantaneous but this is a mission-based game where it is very drop-in, drop-out friendly. I figure that's the market that they're targeting, going at a slower pace than persistent world MMOs, where players are in more of a position to do their own thing; and also the fact that you are griping about the wait time does create some form of impetus to rush the build, which is in itself a valid business strategy.

 

I do gather that you are quite for the idea of skins and that is a very valid suggestion for their business model however. With the dev team in this game being a whole lot more responsive and involved than most other studios in the industry can even claim, I think they might take you up on that.

 

Relax, enjoy and stop to decapitate some Grineer. Less butthurt if you do.

 

Friendly neighbourhood closed beta lurker.

 

Edited May 2, 2013 by Leostrasz

[Zeddypanda]

I've played F2P games where crafting is instant but you can only play for like 10 dungeon floors per day, and the game's equivalent of platinum is required to craft anything. The platinum can be bought from other players, but someone, in the end, had to pay for that craft.
 
This system is much better. I actually think I like it better than having crafting be instant. It makes every acquired piece of gear seem special.

[Huitzil]

Waiting time on crafting is utterly inexcusable. It is clearly just something to nickel-and-dime you into paying platinum to avoid an annoyance that should never have been there to begin with; instead of paying platinum to get a bonus or a boost. The claim that it's supposed to support "drop-in, drop-out" gameplay is patently false when there's alerts that come up every 30 minutes and at random have valuable BPs you can get no other way -- the game is telling you you should constantly be playing or constantly be on call. Making someone wait 1 to 3 days to try out the new thing they went to the effort to gather materials for in order to try it out adds literally nothing to the game, and post-hoc rationalization is the only reason anyone would support it. It's terrible and it needs to be removed immediately.

[Qb3rt]

Justifying the waiting time is debatable, I won't argue with a few hurdles here and there.

 

However, I DO think that the "RUSH" option should have a scaling cost.

 

Currently, it costs the exact same amount to rush a project when it has 3 days to completion as it does to rush the same project with minutes to completion.

[Honeybad6er]

Devs do this because people with too much time on their hands support this kind of S#&$, hence the massive downvotes against people who don't like it. Can you believe something like this exists? Apparently it takes hours and hours to build a digital sword, because things don't just magically appear amiright? Because that would be unrealistic.

Edited May 2, 2013 by Honeybad6er

[[DE]Steve]

Waiting time on crafting is utterly inexcusable. It is clearly just something to nickel-and-dime you into paying platinum to avoid an annoyance that should never have been there to begin with; instead of paying platinum to get a bonus or a boost. The claim that it's supposed to support "drop-in, drop-out" gameplay is patently false when there's alerts that come up every 30 minutes and at random have valuable BPs you can get no other way -- the game is telling you you should constantly be playing or constantly be on call. Making someone wait 1 to 3 days to try out the new thing they went to the effort to gather materials for in order to try it out adds literally nothing to the game, and post-hoc rationalization is the only reason anyone would support it. It's terrible and it needs to be removed immediately.

 

I'm sorry you feel this way. The evidence we have does not support your claim but I understand that some feel this way. If we have hard currency items and soft currency blueprints+auto complete than people spending money to support the game (and thereby adding more items and enjoyment for people that are not paying a dime) would be getting ripped off.

 

Every single game I've played with crafting has a time component. That time component serves two purposes: 1) Gives you a reason to come back. 2) Let's players who can afford it support the devs by skipping the wait.

 

The sarcastic realism argument cuts both ways, I think its a wash if immersion is worse with the digital sword popping into existence vs. a hidden Tenno 3d printer slowly smelting it with sparks and stuff.

[Qb3rt]

Atta boy, Steve! Fight the entitlement syndrome!